Ok so my plants all had a ca def and it was due to salt build up in the soil lowering the ph so much that calcium couldn't be absorbed anymore. Also had a MG def as well. I flushed with 14 gal water PhD to 6.5. The laSt gallon was 1 tsp calmag, tiger bloom,and Epsom salts, also ph'd to 6.5. The deficiencies have stopped spreading, but no new growth is happening. Been a week since I flushed. How long should I give then before culling? I'm in the 3rd week of flower right now.
Ca/MG def, flush, no new growth
- Thread starter Grower899
- Start date
These are all ca def. I guess it's more of a lockout since the oh was to low for the roots to absorb it. It also has MG def in the lower leaves. Necrosis around the edges the inner leaf turns yellow and eventually falls off.
After flushing and finishing with a mild dose of nutes it's no longer spreading, but growth has come to a halt for a week almost. Soil is still pretty damp after a week, used to water every 5 days. Just trying to figure out if they are gonna finish growing or if I need to scrap them and start over.
Tupapa
Well-Known Member
Let them dry out, then half strength npk nutrients with calmag/ sulfur they are shocked for the flush and salt buildup or ph out of wack and always take like 10 to 14 days to resume grow. Patience is key in soil grows only in hydro u see quick fixes and recovery she will start growing soon, just add a couple of weeks to your flowering schedule for the setback. When she dry out completely feed at half strength with calmag i will use epson salt for the sulfur is really hard to overdose canabis with sulfur. U need for next feeding half strength npk nutrients plus cal/mag/sulfur
Tupapa
Well-Known Member
Also take a look at this http://cannaversity.com/cannaversity/article.php?id=057
Yeah with the laSt gallon of the flush I used 1 tsp tiger bloom, cal mag, and Epsom salt. Not sure if I should give more nutes next water or not.
Yeah the ph being to low is where I think the problem stems from because I've fed calmag since it's 3rd week alive.
Nice site will be storing the link with the collection of other sites I have. Thanks.
Tupapa
Well-Known Member
Then if u want to be in the save side when she dry out completely use ro water or destilled use calmag some epson for the sulfur and u can use some molasses. And c how she responds and when she dry out next one after that then feed with calmag again and always ph your solution, also next time take a sample of your runoff with a shot glass and check ur ppm to c how high it is. GL
I dont have a proper meter to check the ppm. I always start very slow with nutes, usually 1/4 strength > 1/2 > 3/4 > full dosage (2 tsps). But yeah I'm using the blue garbage from gh as ph up (replaced with botanicare ph up its sooooo much better), and I never used enough, I think the testing method I was using was messing me up. But I do have a digital ph meter now so that'll never be an issue again. Next grow I'll probably invest in a bit better of a meter so I can measure ppm, ec, etc.
I think they'll be dry tomorrow but I'm gonna wait until Monday to water them again. Prolly use calmag and Epsom salts like you say for the next water.
Chef420
Well-Known Member
I don't want to hijack your thread but...
These are all ca def. I guess it's more of a lockout since the oh was to low for the roots to absorb it. It also has MG def in the lower leaves. Necrosis around the edges the inner leaf turns yellow and eventually falls off.
I have this exact thing. I use tap and never added cal/mg. I've started but I've tested the ph out of the tap is high (7.96) while after adding my botanicare nutes the ph is 5.8.
I alternate water and feed but I've never tested and adjusted my ph before I saw the spots.
I started throwing cal/mag at it but it hasn't solved the issue. I figure the problem is with my waterings and the high ph. Thoughts? I'm in pro mix
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Tupapa
Well-Known Member
U have a lock out if the ph is out of range the nutrients can be there but the plant can't up take them
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Tap water is the main cause of most problems growers get. It's also the main cause of pH problems. pHing your feed water to 6 or so does almost nothing to the pH in the root zone when there's a buildup of alkaline minerals like the carbonates abundant in tap water. I can get all the free tap water I want from friends that live in town but I wouldn't drink it and sure as hell wouldn't try growing my plants with it. ProMix, hydro nutes, (ph Perfect) and RO water all the way!
Every time you water with hard water the minerals get left behind in the pots just like they build up in your kettles and coffee makers. Depending how hard your water is you may need to flush as often as every few waterings to keep toxic salts buildup at bay. Town water here is over 400ppm, very high in sodium and lots of other things. I called the town and they emailed me a water analysis report for free so anyone using tap water should do the same. Invest $100 in a cheap RO unit. One of those 5gal/day units is good enough for the small grower if you have something to store water in like a plastic rain barrel. Stick a cheap airstone in it and you'll have perfect water for your high value crops.
If you are adding CalMag to most tap water . . . don't! Hard water has more Ca and Mg in it than the plants can use already so adding more just makes it worse. If you start using RO water then a little CalMag is need tho most quality nutes have enough for most types of plants. Pot does better with higher levels but most people use too much and then lockouts happen. It's not a magic bullet folks. Just another tool in the grow shed. Even with coco if you're using hard water you likely won't need to add CalMag. What most people call Ca deficiency is actually toxic salts buildup. Older leaves are the last to be affected by low Ca as it's an immobile nutrient and once it's in a leaf it stays there. Lack of Ca starts with very dark green new growth, weak stems and very slow growth then new growth discoloring with yellow to purple hues then new growth coming out distorted. Mg on the other hand shows up first in older leaves like low N with yellowing starting there and progressing up the plant with new growth being the last affected because like N it's a mobile nutrient and the new growth will take it up from the older leaves.
Mobile nutrients are NPK, Mg and Zinc and they move around the plant when needed elsewhere so older leaves are affected first. Everything else is immobile and if there's a lack new growth shows it first.
Every time you water with hard water the minerals get left behind in the pots just like they build up in your kettles and coffee makers. Depending how hard your water is you may need to flush as often as every few waterings to keep toxic salts buildup at bay. Town water here is over 400ppm, very high in sodium and lots of other things. I called the town and they emailed me a water analysis report for free so anyone using tap water should do the same. Invest $100 in a cheap RO unit. One of those 5gal/day units is good enough for the small grower if you have something to store water in like a plastic rain barrel. Stick a cheap airstone in it and you'll have perfect water for your high value crops.
If you are adding CalMag to most tap water . . . don't! Hard water has more Ca and Mg in it than the plants can use already so adding more just makes it worse. If you start using RO water then a little CalMag is need tho most quality nutes have enough for most types of plants. Pot does better with higher levels but most people use too much and then lockouts happen. It's not a magic bullet folks. Just another tool in the grow shed. Even with coco if you're using hard water you likely won't need to add CalMag. What most people call Ca deficiency is actually toxic salts buildup. Older leaves are the last to be affected by low Ca as it's an immobile nutrient and once it's in a leaf it stays there. Lack of Ca starts with very dark green new growth, weak stems and very slow growth then new growth discoloring with yellow to purple hues then new growth coming out distorted. Mg on the other hand shows up first in older leaves like low N with yellowing starting there and progressing up the plant with new growth being the last affected because like N it's a mobile nutrient and the new growth will take it up from the older leaves.
Mobile nutrients are NPK, Mg and Zinc and they move around the plant when needed elsewhere so older leaves are affected first. Everything else is immobile and if there's a lack new growth shows it first.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
You don't by chance use ozone in the grow room do you? All those tiny spots on your leaves look like either ozone or mite damage. That's not indicative of Ca deficiency.
I dont use ozone. When trying to diagnose the issue I came upon what you're saying. I checked the plants very thoroughly, and thoroughly misted them with a calmag and sm90 foliar spray. The problem ceased spreading after the foliar spray. I haven't seen any webbing on buds or mites on the under sides of leaves. But im Going to check again.You don't by chance use ozone in the grow room do you? All those tiny spots on your leaves look like either ozone or mite damage. That's not indicative of Ca deficiency.
I clipped a lot of the leaves that were done for, there were some more severe rusts spots. They all started out small and eventually the leaf would die. I just assumed it was due to the cal/MG lockout after I found that.
I came to the conclusion that it was a ca/MG lockout due to salt build up. I tested my runoff and each plant came out under 5 ph, high 4. After flushing the runoff came out to 6.5 ph on each one.
Also the problem ceased after spraying them with a sm 90/calmag foliar spray.
Also the problem ceased after spraying them with a sm 90/calmag foliar spray.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Usually the pH goes up with salts buildup but when it happens it the leaves go brown and crispy so it sounds like you got it figured out and fixed it. I was getting that using the AN 2-part nutes so have gone back to the 3-part so I can better limit N after the stretch and hopefully not have that going on any more.
Here's to a great harvest!
Here's to a great harvest!
Thanks for your insight here I appreciate the info, I think it's figured out. Gonna see how they do over the next week.Usually the pH goes up with salts buildup but when it happens it the leaves go brown and crispy so it sounds like you got it figured out and fixed it. I was getting that using the AN 2-part nutes so have gone back to the 3-part so I can better limit N after the stretch and hopefully not have that going on any more.
Here's to a great harvest!