California MJ Growers & Smokers on Legalizing MJ

are you messing with me, as a joke or something?
pick on the newb?
i don't understand it, you even said it yourself, the DA is a state employee, the judges and the cops are state employees the state pays them and we in turn pay the state via taxes and the state of CA is screwed financially.

budget? maybe? i don't know.


pot will save the world.

the lottery certainly saved the schools.

Some people have no idea what they are talking about. And just cant get over the idea of it being legal. marijuana doesn't need to be legalized and regulated by some rich assholes who just want more money. It should be decriminalized as it is now for prop 215 patients. If you have a problem with it being illegal cough up the 100 bucks and get your fucking card. Your allowed to grow more this way anyway. If everybody who wanted to vote YES were to get their med card. Then Cali would be a better place, but its the cheap asses who are too dumb to get legal. Im voting no and so many other i know are doing the same. Im about 95% sure this shit is not gonna pass. And if legalized you cant get high if you between 18-21??? Fucking retarded becasue im 20 and i get high legally everyday and i smoke weed where i please except in places cigrettes are prohibited. And if you think im voting no becasue im too younbg your incorfuckingrect. I will be 21 befor november and this is all said and done so age isnt a issue. Sorry but irritated reading all the newb posts about why it should be legalised and all im hearing is it will be legal.. YAY.. Lmao it already is legal and not taxed and fucked with like it will be if its passed. But thats just my 2 cents.

greasemonkeymann is on point.

nobody is going to fork up the money to put this on the ballot again. its finally here people, and some of the pothead community are fucking themselves over big time.

sad thing is these kids don't really appreciate what we have here. and for that GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY STATE. be a greedy idiot somewhere else.

i guess retards listen to other retards.

Are there any other pot websites not full of greedy fuckin growers. This community is makin me sick!

i've been reading this proposition on a regular basis, so that i don't miss a thing.
i'm pretty passionate about voting no and i'm more than willing to see the point of the opposition.
i dont think i'm being greedy for wanting more rights as a 215 patient than if this thing were to pass.
you can go get your card too, bro. even move up to chico and start a collaborative operation . thats what the smart ones are doing anyways.
we're just on different ends of the spectrum. i dont know how long you've been involved with this movement, but i've done amazing amounts of work in this industry. over 10 years plus. and although it isnt my only means of income, it still feels like a career, do you know what i mean? i've been able to put my boys on. they are able to get outta the hood and put themselves in a better position, even help their friends and family. and thats what i like to see. i dont quite have it like that now, but its good to know everyone can get in on this if they want.

if this thing is to pass, say bye bye to that shit, i know you dont care, cuz you got it easy smoking the finest herb and you dont have to worry about those kinds of problems. sorry that my homies chose not to get 9-5s, but you cant judge them, they are a product of their environment. we all are....wait now i'm just ranting, i'm going to bed.

smoke one.

dtp5150 said:

greasemonkeymann is on point.

nobody is going to fork up the money to put this on the ballot again. its finally here people, and some of the pothead community are fucking themselves over big time.

sad thing is these kids don't really appreciate what we have here. and for that GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY STATE. be a greedy idiot somewhere else.

i guess retards listen to other retards.

Are there any other pot websites not full of greedy fuckin growers. This community is makin me sick!

Click to expand...

where do you all come up with this "it's now or never"? that makes NO sense.

dtp5150 said:

greasemonkeymann is on point.

nobody is going to fork up the money to put this on the ballot again. its finally here people, and some of the pothead community are fucking themselves over big time.

sad thing is these kids don't really appreciate what we have here. and for that GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY STATE. be a greedy idiot somewhere else.

i guess retards listen to other retards.

Are there any other pot websites not full of greedy fuckin growers. This community is makin me sick!

Click to expand...

I'm not a grower at all, but I am a medical patient who enjoys the benefits of medicinal cannabis daily after my 9-5 grind. To get thrown in jail because I had cannabinoids in my urine/blood is likely a reality for me if I ever get pulled over by any California LEO should this initiative pass. I think you'll find that ALL of us here are for the FULL AND COMPLETE legalization of cannabis but sadly, it is simply not that cut and dry. This initiative on the November ballot has too many strings attached and too much ambiguity in the legal enforcement that should Law enforcement choose to be first class dicks about it (not that they would right?) they can throw someone like me in jail and impose fines for something I do on the regular.

Oh, and just one quick question in the utmost respect; but who the FUCK do you think you are calling California "YOUR" state? If you don't like opposing opinions and default to a totalitarian way of thought then suck yourself off and leave OUR country.

dtp is ignorant as shit.. sorry but you are ... you wanna post a thread to discuss why it should or should not be legal. and you wanna tell people to get out of YOUR state for Their opinions. Ignorance my friend. Its not your state buddy i pay my taxes. Like every other person who is going to vote. Dont start a thread to discuss views on the situation if all your doing is bashing the people who disagree with legalizaation. You my friend a re a child. You don't understand the big picture =, you are just so happy to have weed legal even though you have no idea what this means to weed on general. You go vote yes. While everybody else votes what they think is right but gtfoh telling people they make you sick because they feel a certain way. People like you make me sick. And sorry to be a dick but your just a disgusting person.

As fot everyone else and this topic. Since the day i started smoking i wanted weed legal. I have done plenty of research papers explaining why it should be legal for school assignments. I know it would be a big money make for the gov and it would be nice to smoke without worries but what you dont see is its not all that damn dandy. Compare to alcohol. You cant drink without worries. You drink or are drunk in public that itself is illegal. driving, open bottle, etc.. is illegal. i have no problem right now as a 215 patient smoking a blunt walking to the store or at my house and driving or going out in public. Work, School, home im always high no problem and best of all i am covered under prop 215. So im voting no. Im not going anywhere either i love this state.

this guy said it best.....

my problem with this bill is it puts more people in jail. It puts more money in the governments pocket and it is a gateway for the feds to regulate and control cannabis which will lead to patents and the deterioration of the medicine. As a user I can see why this bill seems cool but I am not a user i am a patient and my life depends on this medicine for survival, no joke. Frankly this bill infringes on everyone's civil rights. I personally think I should be able to smoke, my medicine anywhere I want and in front of anyone I want because it is my life saving medicine. which I can do under the current law and if Lee's bill passes I will no longer be able to do that and then i will be a criminal for medicating. This bill will be untouchable like prop 215 which means that nobody will be able to change that law. This bill also does not release all those in Jail whom are wrongly incarcerated for medicating themselves. If we are going to enact a law of this kind it must seek to benefit everone involved and not just the state's economy which is not our fiscal responsibility.Jodie I commend you on you compassion for this movement but not being in Cali; I assure you do not get the whole picture, I am a jounalist in California and I have lots of insight about some of the real intentions of our government. The bottom line is it is time for a revolution, its time to take back the power and keep it where it belongs : with the people not the government. Do you really feel that the government deserves our money, I don't they are already robbing our incomes here in the U.S. which is purely absurd. They tax our property which is absurd. In the U.S. we donnot tax medicine and for a good reason so why start now. Its not our problem to fix the economy but it is our problem to take back our power. And its my God given right to grow as many plants as I need and no Government can tell me otherwise. peace. hugs. love

and dont forget about this....


That 25 square foot limit only works if you're willing to grow indoors. $250 - $300 for a light is only the start, you'll need two of them. One for vegetative growth and one for flowering, each taking a specific ballast that cant be used with the other. You'll also need exhaust fans and scrubbers, a timer, a hydroponic set up, and some way to battle all that heat those big hot lamps put out. And then there's the electrical bill. It's not just simply how much electricity the lamps use, it's also what billing tier they will bump you up to.

i didnt write this either, i just found it appealing to read.


what will we have if we don't vote in the "regulate, control and tax cannabis initiative"? nothing? hardly.
the alternative is actually quite appealing. it's Prop. 215.
under Prop. 215, every citizen is allowed to grow up to an UNLIMITED number of plants and TRANSPORT and POSSESS up to 3 LBS. you don't have to pay $50 tax onto every ounce--all you have to do is pay about $150 a year to renew your prescription.
prescription? does that mean you have to be SICK to legally use medical marijuana? absolutely not. it was deliberately designed to apply to a range of "illnesses"--with no limit. WHATEVER MARIJUANA HELPS YOU WITH, that's an excuse to be prescribed medical marijuana. the idea is that if you told your doctor with honesty that marijuana assisted you with some problem, then the doctor should respect that and give you what you say works for you. that's why you can get a pot prescription for something as benign as headaches, insomnia, cramps, lack of appetite (ha!), and even a broken heart. to cultivate up to an unlimited amount and carry up to 3 lbs. without penalty or harassment. and you can smoke anywhere cigarettes can be smoked. and if you're complying with the law, the cops totally protect you. i've seen it so many times. speaking as someone who LIVES there, trust me: it IS a pot paradise... the generous restrictions make it almost impossible to be non-compliant. so the alternative to the initiative ain't bad at all!

damn dude, there's hella shit in that link.....


All you need to know is in the title of the article. "Complaint #1" is right - haha, label all of your detractors as complainers. Really set us up for a skew, go on and do your best.
WHO THE FUCK CRIES OUT TO BE TAXED?
This isn't really legalization! That's true and it's all you need to read. I'm not going to waste my time on this huge screed, it's propaganda all the way through if it's pro-tax in any way.
This isn't legalization. We still see television commercials for illegal tobacco, and we still see people getting their houses kicked in and raided, dogs shot, family members beaten and property seized for illegal tobacco.
IF YOU'RE STUPID ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR THAT, STOP VOTING FOR ANYTHING AT ALL
What you're voting for is corporate-sponsored and likely corporate-originated legal propaganda. This law STINKS, it seems like something Philip Morris or Imperial Tobacco would want you to vote for - because they will be the only people with the legal authority to sell this to you. And you'll still get your doors broken down for it.
ASK YOURSELF - ARE YOU ALLOWED TO GROW TOBACCO? No! You get arrested and your life is over.
You're voting to take control of the trade away from your local mom & pop pot growers and into the hands of the Tobacco Cartels and their corporate ilk.
Look at what these fucks are putting in Tobacco. THE ONLY TOBACCO YOU CAN GET LEGALLY HAS OVER 400 CARCINOGENS IN IT and the government doesn't even ask for the full list - it's a "Tobacco trade secret." CAN YOU GET PURE TOBACCO? Not without being completely illegal about it. You can get cancer or go to jail if you want tobacco, but you can't avoid both without breaking the law. A law nobody tries to change. They just don't smoke. You'll have to make the same choices with your marijuana if you give control of it to the tax man.
I fucking hate you people for being so stupid. And you're supposed to be the free thinkers with open minds. Can you not tell exactly who is trying to fool you? THIS IS CORPORATE! This is a corporate takeover of the cannabis culture. BE FUCKING WARNED!












and this too....






I disagree with some of Emery points. Old time activists are all not jealous. They truly think some very bad things were written into this proposition that were not necessary for passage. The reason for that is this is going to be debated on the big idea of legalize or not. It is not going to pass or fail on it's details. For that reason there are things here that did not need to be.
The $50 tax is ridiculous, period. It is WAY TOO HIGH. But worse than that, a tax should be on THC content, not plant material weight. Whoever though such a tax was good excise tax policy is an idiot. As a producing state, in the future should legality spread to other states CA could become a provider, just like wine, except that tax will make our product non competitive. A gallon of wine in CA is excise taxed at 0.20 per GALLON. That makes our wine competitive across the US. Depending on THC content the excise tax on an oz should not exceed 1 or 2 dollars. Retail prices (including all taxes) for outdoor grown should be as low as $10 for the lowest content product.


Lee made sure to create a space for himself in what this proposition mandates with his must be purchased from licensed seller provision.
This did not mandate the release of all current cannabis prisoners or the expungement of all cannabis records.
There will be cannabis prisoners locked up if this becomes law. That's really wrong.
These things could have been in there. They would not insure failure, any more than not putting them in ensures passage.

THIS IS THE LAST ONE BEFORE BED, BUT MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS ONE. ITS THE MOST IMPORTANT.






Without even approaching my personal feelings about Tax and Regulate, this article does such a bad job of addressing the actual issues that us “rabble-rousers” have.
I can safely say that I fall into none of your 3 groups. I am not a LEO in any way shape or form. I am not a commercial grower or one’s dependant. And I am not an old guard of Prop 215. I am, however, an attorney that, unlike the proponents of this bill, see poorly written law interpreted against the cannabis users every day in court. I am someone that can read this bill and see it for what it will be one day in front of a judge: vague, poorly written, and open to vast interpretation by judges who are anti-cannabis.
“Who needs their $350 to $450 per ounce cannabis when we can all safely and legally grow our own weed at home for about $12.50 an ounce?” You are making several huge and incorrect assumptions here. First, you assume that everyone will be able to grow their own. If that were true, there wouldn’t be medical marijuana dispensaries now. There are a HUGE amount of them because not everyone can grow cannabis and many of those that can can’t grow high quality cannabis. Second, you assume that anyone can do it cheaply. Perhaps in Washington your overhead is low, but come on down to Southern California and see how much your home grown stuff will cost. And third, you assume that ANYONE is going to lower their prices for recreational cannabis. That is a hugely misguided assumption. Proponents of Tax and Regulate have already admitted that “if I already know you are going to pay X for the product, why would I lower the price even if it is cheaper for me to make it.” And that is a direct quote. So if you think that suddenly your local dispensary is going to be selling $15 ounces, you are insane.
Your assumption that the likes of Dennis Perone are opposing Tax and Regulate purely out of jealousy is absurd and insulting. God forbid someone disagrees with you, they must be irrational. Or perhaps, they have a very good reason for opposing Tax and Regulate. I sure do. And it has nothing to do with professional jealousy. I’m not in any way in competition with Richard Lee or even any of his minions. I sure haven’t heard Dennis say that he is opposing the bill strictly out of jealousy. So, unless you’re a mind reader, I would suggest that you keep your highly slanderous and ridiculous comments to your inner group of friends. My testimony is not false or a “sham.” My issues are real. They are important. They could ruin this industry. For you to brush them off as if they don’t matter just makes me realize you have clearly not read this initiative for what it is. You have joined the rah-rah-rah-ing without regard for the problems it will (not might) cause. And I find that to be a “sad state of affairs.” The fact that you are trying to intimidate those of us that oppose by calling us names and attempting to make us look bad to those that are undecided just proves that you know we have valid issues and you are scared that we will win.
“Look what an example will do!” Yes indeed. Look at what an example California has been thus far. Other states are watching us so closely. But not for the reasons that proponents of Tax and Regulate want us to think. Other states are looking at California and saying “how can we avoid the mess California has made?” And “what can we do to avoid being like California?”
“Obama’s Justice Department agreed not to oppose or harass any state marijuana initiatives.” That is patently false. Re-read the statement made by US Attorney Eric Holder.
“Under this initiative you can’t be fired from work if you smoke cannabis.” Again, patently false. Just because Richard Lee told you that is true, does not make it so. Most Californians are “at-will employees” which means they can be fired at any time for any reason except their race, gender, age, or sexual orientation. If your employer drug tests, they can still fire you for consuming cannabis over the weekend. Just like they can fire you for getting drunk on your weekends. Just like they can fire you for having blue eyes. And just like they can fire you for having smelly feet. Furthermore, even the few Californians that are contract employees, the Federal Drug Free workplace rules still apply to most employees. Since it will still be illegal federally, they can still fire you. Even if you weren’t under the influence at work. Period.
“Only the cartels, street gangs, and unlicensed exploiter commercial growers will see the cops more frequently.” Yeah, those people, AND medical patients and recreational users alike. President Obama has outright laughed at the idea of recreational legalization. He has told the DEA to make medical patients following state law “not a priority.” But he has not said so for recreational users. Does anyone remember the raids by the DEA California used to have? Welcome back. And since, under this law, at first glance it will be impossible to tell the difference between a medical patient and a recreational grower, medical patients will be injured by DEA raids meant for recreational users.
“The proposed penalty under this bill for supplying to 18-20 year olds with cannabis is identical to the fine and penalty for supplying liquor or beer in California.” Wrong again. The fine and penalty for selling beer to an 18-20 year old is a misdemeanor. The fine and penalty for selling cannabis to an 18-20 year old is a felony carrying 3-5-7 years in prison. That is more than a little different. Unless you just give it away (but who does).
“The initiative doesn’t add any penalties for toking outdoors or in the same space as minors.” There is no law presently against either of these things. So yes, it does add penalties. It would not be the same as before the bill was passed.
“Minors need only be in another room while cannabis is being consumed.” Untrue. They cannot be in the same space as you. You may define “space” as room. Richard Lee might too. But he didn’t put “room.” He put “space.” And a judge might not agree with either of you that “space” means “room.” He might think that “space” means house. He might think that “space” means apartment complex. Like you say, it is a psychoactive that travels through the air. It will easily travel from apartment to apartment. It certainly won’t be a small inconvenience if you can’t smoke in your apartment. Then where?
“After this initiative, California will be flooded with cannabis at dramatically reduced prices.” According to your own previous statement, that will still be trafficking. So…no…no there will not be a flood of dramatically reduced priced cannabis. Or, you are assuming that getting a license is going to be easy. Maybe in Oakland. But no where else. The local governments are going to have to take time and effort to make up a permitting system. Los Angeles took over 5 years to decide what to do with medical cannabis. What in the world makes you think that Los Angeles will take only 5 minutes to make a permitting system for recreational cultivators/distributors?
You brought up the complaint that cannabis taxes could be used to enforce prohibition, but you failed to actually address it. In the limited response you gave, you citied lower prices as a way that this will not be true. Again, that is making an assumption that I don’t think is wise to make. Not to mention that licensing fees could do the same thing. If it costs $500,000 to become a distributor, how many distributors will there be? Your numbers for wholesale cannabis are already drastically lower than what is reasonable. But add on top of that a $100,000 cultivation license (similar to alcohol), a $100,000 wholesaler’s license, and a $100,000 distributor’s license and you will not have anywhere close to the prices you are talking about. Then add tax on top of that. Good luck with those $50 ounces.
As for tourism, if there are no licensed distributors, there is no tourism. Not to boost your bubble, but Oakland already has recreational cannabis. And we haven’t had 500,000 new jobs in California because of the sudden crazy rush in tourism. And where did you come up with your numbers? What study are you quoting that we will get 500,000 new jobs? Not to mention, you are going to scare the crap out of the mainstream audience if you are going to sell them with floods of stoners coming to California – the new “stoner’s paradise” as you say. 190 million pot heads coming to California? Yeah, that’s a winning argument for the mainstream audience.
“Dodger games and Disneyland will have a whole new attraction?” Umm…public places, no smoking allowed remember?
“Shops that sell cannabis will need to be licensed and pay taxes.” None of the nay-sayers are complaining about this. In fact, most of us having been begging to be licensed to grow and sell medical cannabis for years.
“In a legal environment, the price of cannabis will plummet.” Really? “Since Prop 215 passed in 1996 the price of marijuana has not gone down at all.” Oh…so why would it be any different with recreational? What proof do you have that it will? Because the word straight out of the proponents’ mouth is that it won’t change a bit.
“That means ANY competent grower can achieve 16 to 40 ounces every 10 weeks in their space, a generous personal or medical amount by any standard.” Unless there is more than one adult living in your residence, since you are only allowed one 5x5 per residency. And if you rent, you have to get permission from your landlord. Good luck with that, considering they can still be subject to forfeiture by the federal government.
“The only ones worse off will be gun-toting street gangs and cartels.” AND medical patients. And all recreational users that cannot grow for themselves in every city besides Oakland and San Francisco. And everyone that gets raided by the DEA because Obama does not support recreational use. And everyone that has minors in their household. And everyone that has more than one adult in their household.
You have failed to address MANY of the legitimate complaints by the “nay-sayers.” Perhaps because you had no argument against them? How about the fact that this initiative leaves the decision up to the local municipalities. And that the path of least resistance for local authorities is to do nothing and no permits will be issued for commerial cultivation, wholesaling, and distribution? Are you aware that 129 cities have an outright ban on medical marijuana dispensaries? There are more that have moratoriums. How many of those cities are going to suddenly be okay with recreational cannabis?
Or what about the concern that no law is better than bad law. I know you think that this law is the most brilliantly written law. But many people would disagree. Many attorneys that actually know how these laws play out in court disagree. If you start reading case law and see how differently the various judges have interpreted Prop 215, you will see what I mean. Vagueness will destroy this initiative.
What about the fact that this initiative creates many new crimes that will do exactly what this initiative is “supposed” to stop, make people criminals. This initiative creates a new crime for illegally purchasing cannabis. Not true before. It creates a new crime for smoking in public places. Not true before (except where it is illegal to smoke cigarettes). It creates a new crime for smoking in the same “space” as a minor.
In conclusion, please do not try to intimidate those of us that have our issues with this initiative by making us out to be jealous evil people. We have legitimate issues with this initiative. And the voting process of this country allows us to have our own opinion. We shouldn’t have to be intimidated by the likes of you or Richard Lee or anyone else because we have our own opinion.



THANKS DTP FOR THE LINK

The only problems with cannabis in California have come as a DIRECT result of poorly written laws. Leaving as much open to interpretation as they did in prop 215 is a recipe for disaster. If things were black and white (or as black and white as you can make them) it would be a much better situation for everyone, citizens AND law enforcement. Either set reasonable limits or legalize cannabis for adults completely but the law must be clearly defined so there is no question what IS and is NOT allowed. As it is now any judge, prosecutor or cop that disagrees with the will of the people of the state of California can try to side step the law. Politicians too have room to pass local laws effectively nullifying the law in some cases.

Bad laws and things like excessive taxes only create the conditions for a black market to thrive in. I have no problem with reasonable limits for responsible adults nor do I have a problem with a reasonable tax on the sales of weed but $50 an ounce is excessive in it's own right plus it creates $800 a pound for any criminal willing to break the law. News flash...criminals don't give a shit about the law! We have gun control laws right, yet criminals still seem to find a way to get guns and use them in crimes. Do you really think they give a shit about not having a license for the gun they are about to use to rob a bank? The ONLY way to get gangs and cartels out of the pot business is to legalize it and keep any fees/taxes at a level where "crime does NOT pay". When was the last time you heard about a maffia bootlegger?


I believe if there is enough support to pass any kind of legalization in California then there is enough support to pass total legalization for responsible adult use

just because you talk a lot, doesn't make you right

in fact, i've learned the more winded a person is, usually the more full of shit they are. they have to talk so much to try and convince you they're not an idiot, but it usually just backfires.

i say no... it will drop prices drastically