Calling all chemists and botanists! Let's put an end to overpriced nutes!

Good link there jonda, describes making your own nutes from basically raw materials. Perhaps the Sweet, Bud Candy, Tiger Bloom products are all sales marketing tricks that do nothing to improve yield. At least nothing that wouldn't be accomplished by simply keeping your plants healthy all the way through. This is what UB has been saying for a long time and he seems to be the voice of experience. The Jack's products are extremely cheap compared to the bottled stuff at the grow shops, and I have done a grow with Jack's with good results. But I cheated by adding Sweet during flower. Guess it is just hard to let go after early success with the overpriced stuff. If I was smart I would run a crop with just Jack's and see how it turns out.

But if anyone knows how to brew up an equivalent to Sweet, please post it, old habits die hard.

What is SWEET?

If its a sweetener such as molasses based then they're only really beneficial in an organic grow whereby you feed the microbes the extra carbs which kind of supercharges their ability to convert organic matter into inorganic ions for uptake.

Hydro nutes use inorganic ions to directly feed the roots cutting out the middleman (beneficials).

Small amounts of trace elements can be found in sweeteners such as Mg, Fe, Ca etc but too much sugar can hinder and sometimes block uptake of N.


Just my 2pennies worth.


I only use a
Base nute NPK 6-3-8 from start to finish
Root stimulator
Enzyme product
PK1314 a little
Ca
Mg
Si


J

jondamon said:

What is SWEET?

If its a sweetener such as molasses based then they're only really beneficial in an organic grow whereby you feed the microbes the extra carbs which kind of supercharges their ability to convert organic matter into inorganic ions for uptake.

Hydro nutes use inorganic ions to directly feed the roots cutting out the middleman (beneficials).

Small amounts of trace elements can be found in sweeteners such as Mg, Fe, Ca etc but too much sugar can hinder and sometimes block uptake of N.


Just my 2pennies worth.


I only use a
Base nute NPK 6-3-8 from start to finish
Root stimulator
Enzyme product
PK1314 a little
Ca
Mg
Si


J

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DUUUDE!!..

Sorry couldn't help myself.. I just thought it was another line of nutrients, but I use molasses during flowering to feed the soil, it is great with a little top dressing of castings or if I am adding a little compost to my pots.

420circuit said:

And please explain why a picture of Jimi has Bob's name at the bottom. I can dig that there are others who are fans of both musicians, but it just seems a bit twisted up, like chewing aluminum foil.

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It's a graphic of a tattoo gone horribly bad. A guy asked for a tat of Bob Marley and the tattoo "artist" mistook Jimi Hendrix for Bob Marley. The customer didn't see it until it was too late. Epic fail but great humor (except for the customer).

jondamon said:

What is SWEET?

If its a sweetener such as molasses based then they're only really beneficial in an organic grow whereby you feed the microbes the extra carbs which kind of supercharges their ability to convert organic matter into inorganic ions for uptake.

Hydro nutes use inorganic ions to directly feed the roots cutting out the middleman (beneficials).

Small amounts of trace elements can be found in sweeteners such as Mg, Fe, Ca etc but too much sugar can hinder and sometimes block uptake of N.


Just my 2pennies worth.


I only use a
Base nute NPK 6-3-8 from start to finish
Root stimulator
Enzyme product
PK1314 a little
Ca
Mg
Si


J

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I think sweet Is flavored magnesium sulfate with some other unspecified shit thrown in like amino acids and sugars. Botanicare makes it. I thought it was suppose to. Make the smoke sweeter, but I haven't done a grow without it so I wouldn't know. My cured smoke is pretty sweet.

I should also say that I do not use a tone of this shit. I fed it three times during flower at 1tsp a gallon. My sense is that it causes more problems then it solves unless you have a mg or s defeciency


DB

Darth Budder said:

I think sweet Is flavored magnesium sulfate with some other unspecified shit thrown in like amino acids and sugars. Botanicare makes it. I thought it was suppose to. Make the smoke sweeter, but I haven't done a grow without it so I wouldn't know. My cured smoke is pretty sweet.

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Ok thanks for that.

Don't get me started on amino acids though and how a minuscule amount actually makes it through the casparian strip and the endodermis.

Sounds like sweet is just another money grabber.

Healthy plants with healthy foliage fed a balanced schedule will give buds their natural smell and taste.



J

So to sum up the collective intelligence posted on this topic (thanks to several contributors) it is probably a waste of time to try to duplicate the formulae of commercial overpriced nutes because they are not needed. Sweet and the other bud candy type products are not helpful if you simply use the correct (cheap) stuff in the first place. Would anyone care to post a basic recipe of the correct stuff for a hydro system? It is harder to generalize a formula for soil growers because there are so many different soil mixes and some don't even need anything other than plain water. But for those of us who go hydro, and have been using expensive bottles of 'magical' undefined chemistry, it would be great to have a base formula that will grow healthy plants.

My results with Jack's Hydro inspired me to start this thread. I added Sweet and Aquashield during that first Jack's grow and will try running without those next time. I guess we are all looking for something to grow bigger healthier plants, so the nute makers have an easy sell for those of us without the science education that would allow us to detect BS.

My recipe for the flowering stage with the Jack's Hydro for a 20 gallon reservoir is:
3 Tablespoons of Jack's Professional Hydro 5-12-26
2 Tablespoons of Jack's Professional Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0
2 Tablespoons of Jack's Classic 10-30-20 Blossom Booster

Planning to use the same mix for veg stage without the Blossom Booster.

I have not done a veg stage grow with Jack's, but will as soon as my jugs of Botanicare Pro Grow, Karma, Cal-Mag etc are exhausted. I did add Sweet and Aquashield along with Pondzyme to the flowering cycle with Jack's, but will just add the Pondzyme next time. Also, during veg I'll continue to add a mycorrizal root stimulator.

Trying to find sense in a world full of nonsense.

If anyone has an idea how to make a replacement for Sweet, please post it up. My guess is that it has simple syrup as a primary ingredient, so perhaps adding some sugar/molasses to boiling water, cool it down and then...

I'll post my results running a grow without Sweet, maybe it has no effect. Going to be hard to beat the results of my last grow, the Northern Lights really enjoyed Jack's during flower for 11 weeks.

(Epsom Salt + Sugar || Sulphured Molassas) + Superthrive? LOL

I have used Super Thrive but discontinued it when I ran out and converted to Jack's nutrients and my results are similar to when I used it with Botanicare. Looking for actual info on what is the composition of Sweet from Botanicare, tired of paying too much. There are people who say there is stuff in SuperThrive that might be bad for you so not a good idea to use during flowering. I do know it smells like vitamins, not especially a good thing if you want your buds to smell like cannabis. I am going to add molasses to a hydro grow, as soon as I run out of Sweet. Planning to run a system with and one without to see if there is any real difference.

I was kinda yanking ya. Sweet is flavor, carbs, enzymes and amino acids. But really the only reason I think it's helping you is the magnesium sulfate, which jacks is suppose to be low on. If you read the peters site they recommend a water test to see if you need to add Epsom salts. My bet is that if you run with Epsom salts you instead you will not notice a difference. If you do, then maybe the molasses will help but I've heard molasses doesn't do anything for hydro growers, and I've heard people say they wouldn't run a grow without it. But it depends on your system though, it might gum things up which I could definately see.

I'd say organic, but it's too expensive to set up, complicated, messy, and a great way to get molds in your grow. Technology is here for a reason, and it's here to stay for a reason.

Alfalfa is a good natural fertilizer, and it is as close as your nearest pet or feed store. Egg shells for calcium. Compost, grass clippings, all kinds of natural fertilizers. Nutes don't have to come in a bottle. Don't need a chemist, we're not making meth. Talk to some of the older people that garden, or a farmer. All the food your plant needs already exists in nature, just gotta know where to look.

Great thread. I'm subbed.
I've been using Jacks Bloom Booster in flower for over a year now. I used to use Canna Nutes.
It always struck me as odd, that I would pay a company to do the math for me. Buying an $18.00 bottle of NPK 1-3-2.
I am not a chemist, but Jacks has been fine for me.
I have not seen any difference in yields, etc.
Once again, I am no chemist, just a guy who hasn't seen the inside of a grow shop in over a year. (not for bulbs, rock wool cubes, anything!)

I too am using Jack's Classic Bloom Booster, and compared to the General Organics I was using last grow, Jack's blows the doors off of the high-priced organic nutrients. Right now I have two plants under 12/12 and both have numerous colas that are over 18" long. I add Jack's every watering, which lately is every day and there's no sign of burn or deficiencies. Rockymtnman is right, it's all about scaling down the dosage to what is needed for weed.

take an empty bottle of sweet and fill it with water. When you mix your nutes,pour some in. Now you have the same thing but for free and you can feel like you did something.

Years ago I had an office with a very sick looking rubber plant. I found that the big planter was a great place to dump my half empty Mountain Dew cans and coffee cups into. Within a month the plant was taking over the office!

I'm half thinking of giving one of my plants some Dew and seeing how it turns out.

High fructose corn syrup, it fuels our youth!

RockyMtnMan said:

High fructose corn syrup, it fuels our youth!

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Yeah, honestly. I used regular Pancake Syrup in my reservoirs towards the end of the cycle in place of a sweetener and it works just fine. Pretty cheap too, and you can be generous with it. Just make sure it's pure syrup, no kinds of salt added or anything. Usually the store-brand stuff at Fred Meyers or Safeway is what I get.

You can make most fertilizers yourself, the problem is having the proper licenses to purchase many of the chemicals that are cheaper and in a more pure state and obtaining the proper equipment to make it. Your best bet is to just grow organically and use soil if you are trying to save yourself some money on fertilizers.