Calling All Noob Growers

IAm5toned said:

let me decide it for you man, not trying to be a smart ass about it either...

look out your window at night. is it pitch black? no.
lets pretend you can blame the fact its not pitch black on artificial light pollution (streetlamps, etc etc)
so lets head out into the wilderness... far far into the wilderness. is it pitch black at night? no.
lets head south to some of the tropical lattitudes... youll find that the closer you get to the equator, the brighter the night sky gets. this is really noticeable at sea. not like youd be growing on a ship, but just for examples sake. you will find that in most of cannabis' natural habitat, the starlight combined with the moonlight is bright enough to read by.
hmmmmmm..... makes you wonder why you dont have hermies in nature occurring on a more regular basis, doesnt it....

hermies caused by light leaks is kind of a myth. but it does happen.
let me explain a little further... bear with me on my layman's terms as well, its just easier for me to explain things in laymans terms to avoid confusion or misinterpretation.
if your growing indoors, its not natural. the normal limiting factors that are present in nature are simply not there in your indoor op. weaker plants that would normally die off in the wild thrive, because you do your best to provide the perfect enviroment. more often than not, the 'perfect enviroment' is too much for the plants, its not natural. theres no times of drought or shitty light or extreme temp swings to harden them up. you could compare it to raising a retarded pig and a normal pig, side by side in a closet. both will thrive, because you provide everything for them. however in the wild, its obvious the retarded pig wouldnt make it very far at all... for various reasons.
what this means, is that your prize plant that looks so nice and smells so nice might have the weakest genetics in your entire crop... but you would never know, untill something affects your 'perfect enviroment'... like a light leak... then, and only then, do the weaker genetics become apparent.

its not rocket science folks... its jr high level botany.

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Research done in Florida in the late 1970's revealed an interesting phenomenon. Tropical plants grown in full sun have leaves (so called sun leaves) which are structurally different from the leaves of plants grown in shade (shade leaves). Sun leaves have fewer chloroplasts and thus less chlorophyll. Their chloroplasts are located deep inside the leaves and the leaves are thick, small and large in number. Shade leaves have greater numbers of chloroplasts and thus more chlorophyll, are thin, large and few in number. When plants are grown in strong light they develop sun leaves which are photosynthetically very inefficient. If these same plants are placed in low light, they must either remake existing sun leaves or drop their sun leaves and grow a new set of shade leaves which are photosynthetically more efficient.

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Trees need tremendous amounts of water on a daily basis. Even though it may not rain every day, a trees' roots spread through the ground absorbing water. A mature oak tree needs 40-60 gallons of water every day. Trees have ways of conserving water, because water is very precious to a tree. One way in which a tree helps to conserve water is to develop two kinds of leaves. There are sun leaves and shade leaves. Sun leaves are small, with less surface area, which reduces the amount of exposure to the sun and wind. A shade leaf is large, with greater surface area, which increases the amount of area exposed to the sun. Remember, it is important for a tree to have its leaves exposed to the sun so that photosynthesis (food making) can take place, but not so much that it loses too much water.

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Every tree or plant has a daily need for water. The cell, as the basic unit of life, is 75% water. Therefore, if a tree is to live, its cells must have enough water. A tree loses water by a process known as evapo-transpiration. Evaporation of water is increased by heat and wind. Transpiration is the movement of water from the roots through the stem to the leaves where evaporational losses can be high. The leaves must have a continuous supply of water to avoid dehydration and to carry out photosynthesis.

The effect of heat and wind on leaf water loss is greatest at the top of the tree. A tree, or any other plant, has several strategies to reduce the inevitable loss of water. There is a waxy covering (cuticle) on the leaf to reduce desiccation. Stomata (leaf openings which are necessary for gaseous exchange, but do enhance evaporation) are concentrated on the underside of the leaf so as not to be directly exposed to the sun. Stomata guard cells close when evaporation conditions are most intense.
Shade leaves and sun leaves are different. Surface area is a key consideration in reducing water loss. The less surface area that is in contact with wind or heat, the less water is lost. In other words, small is good when in direct contact with the sun. When considering the entire set of leaves on the tree, one notices that some of the leaves receive direct exposure to the sun, and other leaves receive indirect sun because of shading by other leaves. Sun leaves are found on the top part of the crown. Shade leaves are found on the bottom part of the crown especially on the north side, and have a larger surface area. Determining a ratio between shade leaves and sun leaves on a tree helps a forester or arboriculturist determine its tolerance or intolerance to shade. A tree that has a high ratio of shade leaves to sun leaves indicates it is tolerant to shade. In other words, the tree does not mind growing in the shade and is a species that is able to grow as a sapling under a dense forest canopy.

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Abstract.Light gradients were measured and correlated with chlorophyll concentration and anatomy of leaves in spinach (Spinacia oleracea L.). Light gradients were measured at 450, 550 and 680 nm within thin (455 μm) and thick (630 μm) leaves of spinach grown under sun and shade conditions. The light gradients were relatively steep in both types of leaves and 90% of the light at 450 and 680 nm was absorbed by the initial 140 μm of the palisade. In general, blue light was depleted faster than red light which, in turn was depleted faster than green light. Light penetrated further into the thicker palisade of sun leaves in comparison to the shade leaves. The distance that blue light at 450 nm travelled before it became 90% depleted was 120 μm in sun leaves versus 76 μm in shade leaves. Red light at 680 nm and green light at 550 nm travelled further but the trends were similar to that measured at 450nm. The steeper light gradients within the palisade-of shade leaves were caused by increased scattering of light within the intercellular air spaces and/or cells which were less compact than those in sun leaves. The decline in the amount of light within the leaf appeared to be balanced by a gradient in chlorophyll concentration measured in paradermal sections. Progressing from the adaxial epidermis, chlorophyll content increased through the palisade and then declined through the spongy mesophyll. Chlorophyll content was similar in the palisade of both sun and shade leaves. Chloroplast distribution within both sun and shade leaves was relatively uniform so that the chlorophyll gradient appeared to be caused by greater amounts of chlorophyll within chloroplasts located deeper within the leaf. These results indicate that the anatomy of the palisade may be of special importance for controlling the penetration of photo-synthetically active radiation into the leaf. Changing the structural characteristics of individual palisade cells or their arrangement may be an adaptation that maximizes the absorption of light in leaves with varying mesophyll thickness due to different ambient light regimes.

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in reguards to the wicking action after a heavy watering/flush. When i first came here a couple months ago, i was surprised to see all the warnings about overwatering. After all, I had been watering pretty heavily all along, and had excellent results. Like you said, you'll get some massive growth if you do it during veg, which explained why my plants were 10X as big as alot of other noob's plants that were the same age. Anyway, thanks for the links. It's always good to hear confirmation from growers more experienced than myself(I started in July of last year)

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DYNA-GRO'S unique Pro-TeKt® formula is an easy to use liquid concentrate that provides
supplemental potassium (3.7%) and silicon (7.8%). The latest research proves that plants benefit in
many important ways from supplemental soluble silicon. These benefits include greater tolerance of
environmental stresses such as cold, heat, drought, salinity, mineral toxicity or deficiency, improved
growth rates, accelerated root development on cuttings and improved resistance to insects and
fungi. Soluble silicon promotes natural fungal defense mechanisms in plants, significantly reducing,
and in many cases eliminating entirely, the need to use fungicides. Silicon deposited in epidermal
cell walls enhances plants' resistance to small sucking insects. The resulting increased mechanical
strength in epidermal cell walls enhances leaf presentation to light and improved stem strength.
Soluble silicon enhances metabolic functions and plant growth rates by balancing nutrient uptake,
distribution and transport and increasing chlorophyll concentration in leaves resulting in improved
pollen fertility, fruit and flower count.
Silicon deposition in the plant's epidermal cell layer acts as a barrier against penetration of fungal
hyphae from powdery mildew, black spot, Pythium and Phytophthora, etc. Silicon is selectively
transported to the site of fungal infection and is utilized by the plant metabolically to combat the
growth of fungi. Silicon is also incorporated into cell walls improving heat, drought and cold
tolerance by reducing transpiration. The added mechanical strength makes the plant less dependent
upon osmotic pressure for leaf and stem turgidity. Silicon, selectively transported to the site of
fungal infection, plays an active metabolic role in combating fungal growth by the production of
polyphenolic compounds, part of a plant's natural defenses against fungi and insects. Silicon is
rapidly bound in leaf tissue and deposited in a non-translocatable form within 24 hours of uptake.
Therefore a continuous source of soluble silicon is very important to combat pathogens. This can be
from constant feeding in hydroponics or from retention in the growing medium.
In some plants, foliar applications appear to lead to even lower rates of disease. Silicon, taken up by
the plant via the roots, is moved to old leaves first, whereas fungal infections tend to attack the new
growth first. Foliar application to the new growth Pro-TeKts the tender new leaves. Foliar sprays of
soluble silicon have also been shown to be effective for the control of aphids and other sucking
insects on many plants. Epidermal cell walls containing silicon deposits act as a mechanical barrier
to insects. In addition to the silicate deposits in the leaves, the intracellular content of silicic acid
also acts as an effective sap sucking inhibitor for many insects.
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Spathiphyllum and Anthurium scherzerianum provided 49 ppm soluble silicon increased from 18% to
80% over the dry weight of control plants grown without supplemental silicon. 32 of the 39 species
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Silicon Increases Metabolic Rates and Stress Resistance
Soil and Soilless Mixes: Apply Pro-TeKt® at a rate of 1:1500 to 1:3000 (1/2 tsp to 1/4 tsp/gal)
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Research has shown that silicon benefits plants in the following ways: improved resistance to wilt,
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light interception, enhanced reproductive growth, and increased tolerance of zinc deficiencies, cold
temperatures, excessive phosphorus, manganese, sodium and aluminum concentrations. Silicon,
deposited in the cell walls, forms a protective layer reducing transpiration through the outer cells.
Silicon deposits in the cell walls of xylem vessels prevent compression of the vessels under
conditions of high transpiration caused by drought or heat stress. Temperatures
much above 90° F cause plants to virtually cease their metabolic functions
because water is lost through transpiration faster than it can be replaced
via the plant's root system. This results in harmful increases in intracellular
mineral concentrations that inhibit plant functions. Increased levels of
silicon in cell walls reduce transpiration loss caused by higher temperatures
and the low humidity of typical interior growing conditions thus allowing
continued metabolic functions at higher temperatures. Plants wilt less, resist
sunburn and are generally more tolerant of heat stresses. Cuttings and plugs are more
tolerant of the stresses encountered during root formation and potting up as a result of decreased
transpiration. Studies at the Universities of Florida and Minnesota have shown significantly
increased success rates in propagation of cuttings when silicon is applied foliarly through a misting
system, or as a drench or soak prior to sticking. The surfactant characteristics of Pro-TeKt® result
in better uptake of water and the minerals dissolved in it for better nutrition and growth.
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higher concentrations of the enzyme RUBP carboxylase in leaf tissue. This enzyme regulates the
metabolism of carbon dioxide and enables the plant to make more efficient use of available levels
of CO2.
Silicon deficiencies often are indicated by malformation of young leaves and a failure of
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Silica – the missing macro element

Silica is much more than a trace element in many plant species. In fact silica is considered to be a beneficial macro element for many crops with a wide range of benefits for hydroponic crop production. Several plants need silica for growth including rice, sugar cane and tomatoes. Silica is transported from the roots and travels up to the shoot in the xylem vessels and is deposited mainly as hydrated silica dioxide or as polysilicic acids. Once silica has been incorporated into plant issue in this form, it can’t be redistributed throughout the plant, so it needs to be in constant supply if the entire plant is to contain a useful amount.
The use of soluble forms of silica as an additive in hydroponics is not new; many cucumber and rose growers are aware of the benefits of adding silica to the nutrient solution, whether it is in an organic or non organic form. Silica in cucumbers, for example, reduces the incidence and severity of powdery mildew and other fungi. Silica contributes to the strength and thickness of cell walls, helping to keep leaves in a good position for good light interception and to resist attacks by fungi and insects. Silica also assists with the absorption and translocation of several macro and micro nutrients and plays a role in allowing plants to survive and thrive in adverse growing conditions such as high salinity or excess elements in the solution or soil. Silica in solution should, however, not be considered a micro element; levels as high as 140 ppm have been shown to have the most significant results since silica is naturally found in many plant tissues at up to 10 per cent or higher (dry weight).
In the past silica has been a difficult element to supply at high rates in hydroponic nutrient solutions. Chemical forms such as potassium metasilicate not only have a very high pH, but tend to form a glassy like substance, which blocks drippers and emitters when the enriched nutrient solution comes into contact with the air. These days more forms of silica are available on the hydroponic market and nutrient products and supplements containing silica as a macro element are readily available and easy to use.

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IAm5toned said:

ah if we could only just convince the noobs to do a little legwork...

+rep if i can

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EdGreyfox said:

Riddle,

Are you running CO2 as part of your grow now? I can see the need for a CO2 monitor if your using something to supplement CO2 levels, but if your relying on open windows or an air intake I can't see the need for one. It's not like your going to be able to raise the level much by opening the window farther or increasing the intakes fans speed, after all. I'm going to have to look into the silica myself. Seems like it might be worth using, and I'm all for anything that will make it harder for nasties to grow/chew on my plants.

Couple questions about making it rain. First, how soon after rooting (i start from approx 5' clones) do you start doing the flush? And do you continue to make it rain all the way through flowering? If so, I'm assuming that you stop using the shower once they start budding and use a watering can instead. I've been sort of haphazard about the whole rain/flush thing because this last grow threw me so many curveballs, but I'm trying to make it a regular thing for the blueberries I'm running now.

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gumball said:

Hey riddle, ed made me remember I had a question on the making it rain. So are you implying to water during lights out, maybe about an hour or 2 before the lights come on? Then watch the plant and when the plant show she's ready to water with nutes at that time? The whole part about it being nIght and make it rain when they sleep threw me.

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theSinned said:

Yeah I'm curious about your watering/feeding practice as well. So you water very heavily which will actually help to plant to dry out the soil faster. Once its mostly dry you water it with nutes. Do you use enough nuted water for it to start draining out the bottom, or just a little bit? And then how long do you wait after feeding the plant before you make it rain again? Since you're basically over-watering it, how do you prevent that from being a problem?

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EdGreyfox said:

Ok, that clarifies a few things for me.

Sinned- One of the things I've noticed since I've started making it rain regularly is that the plants are sucking up the water a lot faster then they did on my last grow. I'm needing to water at most every couple of days this time around, and there have been a few times where they were ready for more water after a day. I think whats going is this- your plants adapt to the environment to their natural limits, and if you get a plant used to getting plenty of water it is going to respond by sucking it up faster and growing to large then average size. Remember, your dealing with a plant that can handle growing ranges from desert to tropical, so as long as you give it time to get used to the bounty of moisture and make sure it has the nutes it needs it will respond by growing as fast as it possibly can.

Riddle, heres a thought that occured to me. Cannabis grows naturally in pretty much everywhere, but the really big plants tend to come out of places that are wetter then average. Let's assume you start with a small plant (say 12") and you gradually start increasing the amount of water you give it until you start making it rain around week 4 of veg (my plants are around 20" by then). Now, logic would tell me that if you build up gradually the plant should respond by maximizing its ability to take in the water, which will translate to serious roots and rapid growth, and that by the time you get into flowering you're going to have a plant thats used to taking in and making use of far more water then is considered normal. As long as you continue to give it the water it's become accustomed to as well as all the nutes it can handle without burning you should end up with a plant thats much bigger then one that was watered "normally". I know this is basically what you are doing, but I'm thinking by starting earlier and building up to that first rainfall that you could make your system work even better.

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