Calling all seed breeders! I got an idea...

I have an idea that I think will work. My reason for posting is to get the opinion of some experienced breeders.

I'm trying to create a good outdoor strain for my area, that can be easily grown indoor as well. OH! And I want it to be good smoke too.

I should start by saying that the biggest problem with my area(Northern Midwest, USA) is that it can sometimes frost by mid-october, as it did this year. My search began with some good 'Early Girl' strains.

From my research, I know Early Girl to be a strong, resilient strain. I chose to go here for my mother plant...
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/sensi-seeds/sensi-seeds-regular/sensi-seeds-early-girl/prod_468.html
The comments pretty much say it all..

For the father of my strain, I wanted a potent, good yeilding strain. So I decided to go with a skunk-cross. I figured I cant go wrong with a MR.NICE strain. I've read alot about some REALLY potent smoke comin' from MR.NICE seeds. I went with this one...
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/mr-nice-early-pearl-x-skunk/prod_1226.html
Notice the outdoor harvest...

I also decided that seeing as how Im making seed, Id choose another mother for my MR.NICE-Early Boy to make some seed with.(It will also increase my chances of making a study, consistent strain.) So I'm thinking about going with this one...
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/nirvana-seeds/nirvana-seeds-feminized/nirvana-seeds-swiss-cheese-feminized/prod_946.html
I think she'll make a good mama...

I have a couple of things to ask...
FIRST: What are my chances to get a solid, early harvesting strain?
SECOND: I plan to do the breeding indoors. Will that hurt the strains outdoor abilities?
ALSO!!!! I haven't ordered my seed just yet, so I am open to all ideas for making an early harvesting strain. ALL intelligent responses are welcomed!!!
I plan to start a Grow Journal of the breeding, and of the growing of the subsequent seed.
Thanx to all who offer advise. I cant wait to get some input! Im excited about making my own seed!

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Sensi seeds Early Pearl




Reg Seeds Per Pack 10 Seeds Price: £49.99






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Sex : Regular
Type : Sativa Flowering : Photoperiod Genetics : Sativa Flowering Time : Medium Outdoor Harvest : End of September Height : Tall THC Level : Med / High Characteristics : sweet fragrant aroma As the first outdoor Sativa designed especially for shorter summers, Early Pearl has been providing northern growers with luxurious harvests of bulky, trichome-frosted bud for over 20 years. Before the development of early hybrids and acclimatised strains, producing powerful outdoor weed in Holland and similar climates was difficult. Though cannabis can grow anywhere, there was a time when seeds of truly psychoactive strains could only be obtained from imported weed. While often promising in their genetic potential, these seeds, especially the Sativas, had no chance of succeeding in the northern climate.

Sensi’s three Early strains were developed and released in the mid Eighties to give cool-climate growers access to the three most important groups of psychoactive cannabis ? Early Skunk, Indica-dominant Early Girl, and Early Pearl to represent the Sativa side of the family. Each of those groundbreaking hybrids has its own advantages, and we would hesitate to choose an absolute favourite. If a choice had to be made, Early Pearl is a very strong contender, as she has the yield and solidity of an Indica, the dazzling high of a Sativa and a vibrant, unstoppable zest for life that’s all her own. Furthermore, the Early Pearl line has proven to be first-class breeding-stock, perfect for adding toughness and stability to other hybrids.
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early girl is already a part of the genetics so what are we aiming for here? cross it back with the early girl to make it lean more to her side of the flower chart.

oh i suppose when we think about breeding try to think of it as a template. when we breed we using the parent genetic makeup to influence our template.

by the sounds of it your wanting to bring it back to the earlu girl side so you plan seems ok so far i guess.

1: pretty good your working with all fairly fast flowering plants and no apparent ruderalis genes in any write ups i could find so its a good start.

2: not really just make sure to grow the strain outdoors as well. lmfao. if you could only breed a strain relying only on outdoors lol. its hard even where im from.

theres two ways to go about this. breed indoors and test how it goes outside. (it helps to get a few mates to help sometimes. note this could also be the downfall keep to yourself if its possible.

the other approach is to be growing out all seeds outdoors and crossing back with your mother or your dad. these are our studds to make things easy be sure to take a cutting of these. as this will allow you to begin cubing and stabilizing your strain.

3:you said that potency and yield were a part of your plans youll more than likely get this especially if the skunk pheno pulls through and its like the old skunk though it will be more low yielding.

id say get what your planning to though try making your own early girl cross. find a good high yielding strain that flowers fast. but please stay away from strains with ruderalis in there genetics. just an idea

Nice to have you along, Jester!

Thanx 4 the PM. I probably should have mentioned that Im making seed mainly for outdoor growing. I currently have 2 ladies flowering in my basement, and am not completely comfortable all the time. I plan to start growing outdoors exclusively until I actually own my home, rather than renting.

Also, this is my first time buying seed. From what I've read 'The Attitude' is who most go with. Hopefully Im not going to the wrong place. I did most of my searching there. Do you know a better site, that delivers quality?

Do you have an opinion on two fast flowering strains? As I said, I'll post a grow journal of the breeding, and of the subsequent, outdoor grow. I think Early Pearl, and Swiss Cheese... Can you think of something better?

I havent ordered any seed as of yet. Im open to ideas...

i preffer pick and mix seeds but alas they dont send to my country any more.
since then the only place ive found that suit my needs is seedsman. they ship everywhere and i am very happy with these guys A+.

this is your breeding project youll have to go through and select afterall i have no idea what your real climate is like. though im of the oppinion that you can grow this plant almost anywhere. where im from growing and breeding in winter is quite applicable though a lot of people dont even think of growing in the winter which is a shame cos we get such beautiful stauch little plants if we do. (there will be casualties on occasion)

firstly check out seedsman and read up on some of there strains. this is your choice they have to be plants that you want to work with. afterall you know what kind of medacine your after better than any of us.

ill go sheck out the selection shortly i just gotta do a bit of work on ma car tday lol.

Thanx alot, Jester. Check with you, in a few days, then.

looking forward to it. ill mosey on to the attitude page if i have the time and have a look for ya.

While waiting for the advice of others, I thought I'd follow Jesters suit, and take a look around Seedsmans site. I'm still looking for an early flowering crop, and this states clearly that it's perfect for northern hemisphere growing. I still cant find a post anywhere that would lead me to believe that Mr. Nice is anything but an excellent breeder, so I've decided to go here for my father...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/mr-nice-seeds/mr-nice-early-queen

I picked two more females that I think would make good mamas. This is a popular strain known for it's resistance to mould, and its high yields. I think it will go nicely with the early queen given both of them have a shorter flower period, and from my research, I've gathered that mould is a common problem that plagues most fast-flowering strains. They just seem to fit well. Here she is...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/seedsman-feminized-seeds/seedsman-feminised-5-seed/northern-soul-5-seeds

The other female I was thinking about is a crowd favorite known for her potency, her immense crystal production, and (most importantly) forgiveness of wannabe breeders......... Like me. Anyways, you all know her name...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/seedsman-feminized-seeds/seedsman-feminised-5-seed/white-widow-feminised

Cant wait to get some positive input(Even if it only comes from Jester) as Im ready to make my seed!!!

I grew early pearl from sensi seeds outside in 1986 with a huge harvest of some of the best bud Ive ever smoked.12 to 15 ft giants.They say those seeds are not the same nowdays,they sure kicked ass back then...peace

Owl seeds from switzerland has alot of mold resitant strains.Purpenia technosis is almost 20% thc.All that shit molds in the alps........peace.(This is not my strain recomendations, its just power without mold)

this past season i got some super skunk early bud from the 420 seed bank in toronto awesomne smoke short bushy and freckin stinky very stinky unbelievable crystal formation ied recomend it i grew some indoors in a 4x4 aqua top aeroponics they overwelmed all the other strains in size (NL, ak47,HP) i wasent real impressed at this because i wanted a equal amount of different smoke and endended up with 3/4 SS EB iam not copmplaining as its awesome but i like variety!!

hey monyman where is that seedbank downtown? is it in kensington* market?

Nice. Thanx 4 the ideas, guys. i'm lookin.

Subtlechaos said:

While waiting for the advice of others, I thought I'd follow Jesters suit, and take a look around Seedsmans site. I'm still looking for an early flowering crop, and this states clearly that it's perfect for northern hemisphere growing. I still cant find a post anywhere that would lead me to believe that Mr. Nice is anything but an excellent breeder, so I've decided to go here for my father...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/mr-nice-seeds/mr-nice-early-queen

I picked two more females that I think would make good mamas. This is a popular strain known for it's resistance to mould, and its high yields. I think it will go nicely with the early queen given both of them have a shorter flower period, and from my research, I've gathered that mould is a common problem that plagues most fast-flowering strains. They just seem to fit well. Here she is...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/seedsman-feminized-seeds/seedsman-feminised-5-seed/northern-soul-5-seeds

The other female I was thinking about is a crowd favorite known for her potency, her immense crystal production, and (most importantly) forgiveness of wannabe breeders......... Like me. Anyways, you all know her name...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/seedsman-feminized-seeds/seedsman-feminised-5-seed/white-widow-feminised

Cant wait to get some positive input(Even if it only comes from Jester) as Im ready to make my seed!!!

Click to expand...

hehe red the rightup on that first one looks like your origional idea has been done lol. umm you could just buy that and manipulate the gene frequencies within that strain and bend it into something you like. this is possibe too.

from the f2 generation on the underlying genetics will start showing themselves in a more vast amoun of variation thus allowing you to pick a plant that suits your needs. start back crossing and stablizing untill you get the plant you want

hmmm
yes mold can be common in fast flowering strains. though the opposite is also true. when breeding ou can pic for this trait yourself. that is just kill all the ones that get mold or are weak in your climate and only work with the good genetics, eventually the plants will all be acclimated to your area.

from what i gather your just after a fast flowering strain. though i thought you wanted an indica dom. the reason i say this is because maple leaf indica may be ok for your pourposes too.

suggestion 1
switch whit widow for ak47.

perhaps switch northern sould for northern lights. ive seen some mad northern crosses. the last one was durrban poison x northern lights. awsome smoke.
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if i was you id write this as idea one. and keep looking. after all like i said this is an important decision you will be working with these for quite some time i take it.

anyhoo glad someone is finally giving this a real shot. sorry ma answers thus far have been a bit shit but ive been a bit buisy lately. hectic life lol.

you get a rep for growing a pair

Thanx again, Jester! Im gonna' take some time to do a little homework, and will probably order within the week. I'll post within the next few days. Im going with unfeminized seed so I can breed back into it, to accent certain attributes... I think that's how you meant that... YES, homework it is!
.
.
Now Im thinking this...
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/serious-seeds/ak-47-seeds
http://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/seedsman-seeds/seedsman-gold/northern-lights-seeds

I think this is the right combination. Two POWERFUL hybrids, and the Northern Lights should help shorten flowering... Nice. I can alter the strain(once I get good at it) to fit my needs, and can always order different seeds in the years to come. this can be the START of my future badass strain! Yeah... That all souns easy... Haha!

I am a little eager to be rid of my indoor grow room, and this breeding will already be postponing that by a few more weeks. How long would it take to achieve full pollination, and full maturing of the seed?

Can I shorten that time by growing them 12/12 from seed?

If I can harvest HEALTHY seed faster by using a 12/12 from seed photoperiod, than I can start them while still flowering my two ladies that are currently tanning themselves under my 430 Son Agro, right now. When those two get within a couple of weeks from harvest, I hopefully can start my new seed in the same room with them. When harvest comes for my current girls I can harvest my plants, wash my hydroton, refill my empty Ebb-And-Flow with my then 3 or 4 week old plants, and let them finish. That would be nice. Hopefully that's possible.

answer 1
yes using non feminized seeds is the way to go. umm i fucked up and got fem durban lol. oh well ill figure something out lmfao. im gonna find some regs somewhere. dont really want to make fems lol. if i did id rhodelize though (somas technique just look it up) and cross with a true fem

answer2
not really. plants like us run on maturity. in short you have to wait until the plant shows that its reaching vegetative maturity ( aka show preflowers).

when we are cloning a plant especially to flower strait away we should always take our cuttings from a plant thats at this stage. this is an asexual form of reproduction in which the cutting will hold the same age of the original mother plant.

if you want to do this properly youll also have to make quite a few seeds so a bigger plant will be preffered though ak47 is a good sea of green plant from seed so its quite easy to get quite a few seeds from one, one foot plant (this is actually how ive got my jetlag parent stock i got two rather unique ak's last time i ordered.

youll also have to suss out the flowering period of each plant or rather how well tey match. worst case scenario you take some cuttings and do it on the second round. though that being said you should be able to align them up pretty easily.

but in a whole if you already had the clones there it could be done in 6-9 weeks id say.

but to stabilize you will have to keep a cone of the origional mother and father alive indefinately and cube/back cross it with your best outdoor plants. this would be your fastest option i think. (remembering to take some cuttings and label or remember them) one of them may show to be a superior line later on . that is its will ssuit your needs and have the right alleles carried on through the offspring. afterall were ultimately trying to make the plants all homozygous for a our particular traits.

It's funny. Every time I read one of your comments I have to go look up at least two or three of the words. Haha!

Thanx for answering my questions about starting them from 12/12. Looks like I gotta' bust the fluoros back out, and build another small room.

Im not cutting clones. I want to flower the whole plant, as I want alot of seed, and it takes less time to do so. I'll start 5 or 6 seeds from each strain. I'll choose the strain with the healthiest two females to be the mother strain. Any unused females, I can just keep vegging until spring(should be close by that time) and stick them outdoors.

Unless that's not a good idea??? That should work out fine... I think.

yeah but unless you choose wisely you may not get the results you were after.

so your just after a shitload of f1s too easy. the offspring will all be a 50/50 mix of the parents and look fairly similar. though you will notice some differances when you finally cross again later down the track and more of the recessive genes start showing.

this is why we cube and a keep few indoor clones. as breeding only outdoors is hard it requires taking a cutting from your best plant or revegging it to pollinate next season with your best male. or vice versa i suppose. unles your just selectively breeding like you are to see what you can come up with.

also what your proposing may be the best breeding option for you as your selectively breeding the plants that are best adapted to your environment you live in from seed after the initial cross.

I got you. I'll go ahead and take a clone or two from the NL and keep it vegging. I'll be starting multiple guerilla gardens with my new seed. I'll just stick one of the clones in the ground next to my healthiest girl, when she reaches the same muturity as the clone, and it's almost time for the natural flowering photoperiod.

I DO want a STABLE, Northern Lights dominant strain. A buddy of mine has a skunk strain he's been growing for about five years. Just last year he crossed it with some Hawaiian Skunk, and he will be growing that seed this summer. He told me if I can get a good Northern Lights strain, he'd like to get a male from me, and see what it does mixed with some of his mega-skunk. I burnt some of his crop from that skunk, last fall, and it was f**kin' THUMP smoke! I wonder what crossing that NL with it will do? He's the one who originally gave me the idea to make my own seed.

Would it be possible to cut a male out of my original indoor breeding garden, store it in the freezer, and take it out to the outdoor NLxAK47 when they're in full budding? This would keep me from having to keep a clone alive. I could just freeze a male at full flowering maturity, wait for the new seed to reach almost full budding, and beat a couple of the AKxNL ladies with his dead, pollin-filled body.

Would that work? Is there a better way to do it that way? If not, I'll save a clone. No biggie.

Thanx yet again, brother! I think Im almost educated enough to stumble my way through this. I hope I dont mess this up.Haha!

I'll be ordering seed when we finish our next job.(Construction... My real job.)

If your interested, I'm gonna be posting a few pics of my current garden soon. There are a few guys, from this fine site, that have helped me along the way with them, and I'm posting pics to show them how my two remaining ladies are coming along.

pics... eye candy is always good.

umm as for the question im kinda confused. though i take it you meant store pollen in the freezer not the male plant lol.

umm if ya did mean pollen then yes you can just make sure its in an airtight container ie: film canister or something of the sort (i still tape up film canisters but u dont have too) it will keep for a few months in the freezer.

you should take a cuting of your male and leave it in veg untill the time is needed. note: preflowers can break (and can also be pollinated as well on females). you must know that breeding requires males and females its often handy to keep your males going. i think th seeds say it perfecly that male is your stud. you gotta do everything you can to keep that stud.

afterall you will be keeping a female alive indefinately too. basically whos to say that you dont get a magnificent female you want to cross with. you will find out if that male carries the things you want it to later and if not kill it and find a new on then.

northern lights has been around for many years over that time it has become somewhat stable anyways. i got the discount seeds as they are the ones that used to be the bomb.

it can carry a vast numerous amounts of things, you have to remember all breeders do is manipulate the gene frequencies of there templates or cannabis strains. there will be some variation and your male and femal plants may not carry over exactly what another mother or father of the same strain will. this is why we have strains like skunk, skunk 1, cheese, northern lights, northern lights 5. whats happened in these cases are the breeder has found some pheonotypes in there progenecy that the breeder wasnt breeding for.

they have then somewhat stabilized this trait and named it for its variation.

an easy guide is think of a nice mid margin beetween the two parents. this is what most of your crop should tuyrn out like.. well kinda. as long as your brains starting to think like a breeder. (it may take a couple crosses to fully understand this though) especially when you start seeing f2's( variation begins here) perhaps time to cube f3's f4s f5s etc and cubing and back crossing to stabilize the traits effects the whole thing.

youve got easy enough plans though and i have a feeling that your gonna come outa this with something your happy with.

sorry i got off topic lol.
anyhoo just store some pollen if his plants arent too far off or keep a few cuttings alive and give hime one when its time. this is a far more practical and easy idea.

also store them away from the females if possible although youd be vegging them indefinately anything can happen lol..