Can I add some consumer-grade fluorescent plant lights to supplement my main LED light?

I use to grow with t5 flos . I had a good run but you have to switch bulbs when going into flower. I did 2 grow light spectrum and 2 flower spectrum for a 150 watt 4 socket fixture when going into flower had them maybe 5 inches from canopy. Then there is the chance they can explode when broken. Led is less worry some but you can't get as close then again you really don't need to if you choose a good unit. You can probably get better lumen output per watt from led and you don't have to change bulbs at the same or better cost on your electricity.

lime73 said:

Are you adding side light for veg or flower?
Depends on color temp K
I have the 6500k cool white t5 for veg and my plants often touch bulbs and they are fine with no damage.

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Thanks for the info, Lime... glad to know the leaves touch without damage. I read somewhere that the leaves could get light burn, but I guess that's not gonna happen with weak bulbs like the ones I've got.

I was originally thinking of just adding it in for veg and flower since the bulb says "full spectrum" but now that I've looked up the color temp (which is 3100K) and given your comments of using 6500k for veg, than I'm guessing that this bulb might be ok for flower, but not for veg.. is that true?

3000k is a warmer yellow bulb...Best for flowering, but will work for veg aswell.

Yellow light 3000k , is warmer than the white 6500k bulbs.

Just see how close you can put your hand to bulb, if it feels hot when you get close to it than plants will feel it too, if they get that close.

Budzbuddha said:

Add those flouros , they are doing supplemental lighting. And i am certain that led panel is no where near 600 w either. You can replace those flouro bulbs too to match stage you are in - 6500 k for veg or 2700k for flower .
Definitely think about getting a better “ main “ light for your grows.

Click to expand...

Buzbuddha, I totally agree that the LED is no where near 600w. I think of that like an equivalency to MH, actual draw is about 100w.

Thanks for the tip on switching out the bulbs. I'll look at some 6500k bulbs. The ones I have are 3100k.... I'm wondering.... will that color temp suffice for flower?

What's your actual grow area? I would most likely add more light if your using a cheap blurple off of Amazon.

Also Can also look at led retrofit bulbs to put in your fluoro fixture (s).

Jimdamick said:

I wouldn't bother using the fluorescents, they will not add much & cost money to run.
The LED is adequate
Good luck/stay safe

Click to expand...

I was curious to see how much the floros would cost so I used a calculator
Did the math for the (2) 40W bulbs.
Since I'm growing autoflowers for 8 weeks on 18/6 schedule, that's 1080 hours, which I believe would cost $10.37 total.
If I could get an extra grams by adding the floros, I may end up doing it... 10 bucks won't really break the bank.

Thanks, Jimdamick, for your recommendations and well wishes, you stay safe as well!

John1977 said:

Really? I'd like to read up more on this, but didn't find anything when I performed an internet search. Could you point me to articles on the topic?

Click to expand...

I made the same search, found nothing

PSUAGRO. said:

What's your actual grow area? I would most likely add more light if your using a cheap blurple off of Amazon.

Also Can also look at led retrofit bulbs to put in your fluoro fixture (s).

Click to expand...

Grow area is 30" x 30" x 58" ... I guess a picture's worth a thousand words so I included an image below. I still have to finish a few things here and there but they germinated so quick they needed to get potted before I could finish.

For demo purposes, I've shown just one balast in the right corner below, but would essentially do the same thing on the other side. Just need to find my other balast in the garage. I

You are absolutely correct in that I am using a cheap blurple LED from amazon, therefore, sounds like you recommend I should throw all the light I have at 'em, and just very well may do that. I haven't seen the LED retrofit for the balasts so I'll have to check into those.




For the space, do you think the lighting would be sufficient for the 4 autos in the fabric pots (the 2 small cups and the one in the middle will be moved outdoors)

lime73 said:

3000k is a warmer yellow bulb...Best for flowering, but will work for veg aswell.

Yellow light 3000k , is warmer than the white 6500k bulbs.

Just see how close you can put your hand to bulb, if it feels hot when you get close to it than plants will feel it too, if they get that close.

Click to expand...

Thanks for "pass your hand in front of the light" advice. Makes sense.. I'll definately do that.

420burn420 said:

I use to grow with t5 flos . I had a good run but you have to switch bulbs when going into flower. I did 2 grow light spectrum and 2 flower spectrum for a 150 watt 4 socket fixture when going into flower had them maybe 5 inches from canopy. Then there is the chance they can explode when broken. Led is less worry some but you can't get as close then again you really don't need to if you choose a good unit. You can probably get better lumen output per watt from led and you don't have to change bulbs at the same or better cost on your electricity.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input 420burn. I'm leaning toward including the floros in the setup since the LED I currently have is low end. I'm hoping the floros just provide supplemental lighting... I just hope they don't explode, though! I certainly don't want any of the mercury from the floro tubes getting on my buds!

And to your point about lumen output, I agree that LED has a better cost per lumen, but I'm not in it for business or profit margin, just a hobbyist with a small grow box, so I'm only going to take a $10 hit to the electric bill even if I add them to the setup.

look into buddies by grow lights australia for side lighting, or any type of strip LED would work too. I wanna get some buddys eventually because it is an easy DIY and a cool add on to the tent. They are these cool little stick on LEDS that you can use for side lighting and are waterproof, so you wont have to worry about smashing your t5 bulb.

I do however like having a couple dual bulb t5 lights. You can use them for when the plant is small to save energy, and put them close. Also they do make great side lighting, but you want to use the blue for veg and the red for flower so now you are paying alot in bulbs. If you plan on doing this hobby for a long time just spend the extra cash on LEDS, they are worth it. Try asking about what LED lighting to get too, there are a lot of great options but also alot of bad ones

those bulbs you have going in the picture aren't all that good for growing, they can literally touch the leaves I'm pretty sure and don't put of alot of light. What you would want for flouro is a High output t5

Nizza said:

look into buddies by grow lights australia for side lighting, or any type of strip LED would work too. I wanna get some buddys eventually because it is an easy DIY and a cool add on to the tent. They are these cool little stick on LEDS that you can use for side lighting and are waterproof, so you wont have to worry about smashing your t5 bulb.

I do however like having a couple dual bulb t5 lights. You can use them for when the plant is small to save energy, and put them close. Also they do make great side lighting, but you want to use the blue for veg and the red for flower so now you are paying alot in bulbs. If you plan on doing this hobby for a long time just spend the extra cash on LEDS, they are worth it. Try asking about what LED lighting to get too, there are a lot of great options but also alot of bad ones

those bulbs you have going in the picture aren't all that good for growing, they can literally touch the leaves I'm pretty sure and don't put of alot of light. What you would want for flouro is a High output t5

Click to expand...

the stick on led's sound cool.. I'll definately look for them.
I didn't set out to go florescent... just happend to have these sitting around, so I probably won't invest in t5's, but will definitely look for the side led's you mentioned and another main LED light so that I can put out more lumens from above

John1977 said:

Oh man, that's a really good point. I wasn't thinking about heat... I'm in a very warm climate, and I'm probably at my limits on where I want to be on temperature. I'm currently running between 78F and 85F degrees in the grow box with the LED and no A/C. I think adding the florescents would put me up to 90F or above and that might be too hot for the flowering stage I think

Click to expand...

I think you need to, at least, double your wattage in high quality LED, or you won't get much harvest at all. And this is going to increase your temps unavoidably.

Kassiopeija said:

I think you need to, at least, double your wattage in high quality LED, or you won't get much harvest at all. And this is going to increase your temps unavoidably.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Kassiopeija, for your recommendation. I'm guess I'm just kind of figuring all this out. As I chat with more and more folks on this fine forum, I've gathered that my light won't produce great yields. While I'm not looking for the motherload of harvests, I do want a nice personal stock to draw from for a while (hopefully long while). I think I'm going to double down on the overhead lighting. I'll also price out some supplemental LED side lights. And... I'm guessing i might include the florescents, but only if the temps allow it. I think I'm getting the jist that more light is better. As far as the temps go I can only rely on two things: (1) hope that the temps drop when I add the inline fan to the filter and vent, and (2) hope that outdoor temps dropping 10F degrees or the coming month help inside too. It sounds like I should try to repair the ol' portable A/C just in case the temps get outta hand in the near future.

John1977 said:

Thanks, Kassiopeija, for your recommendation. I'm guess I'm just kind of figuring all this out. As I chat with more and more folks on this fine forum, I've gathered that my light won't produce great yields. While I'm not looking for the motherload of harvests, I do want a nice personal stock to draw from for a while (hopefully long while). I think I'm going to double down on the overhead lighting. I'll also price out some supplemental LED side lights. And... I'm guessing i might include the florescents, but only if the temps allow it. I think I'm getting the jist that more light is better. As far as the temps go I can only rely on two things: (1) hope that the temps drop when I add the inline fan to the filter and vent, and (2) hope that outdoor temps dropping 10F degrees or the coming month help inside too. It sounds like I should try to repair the ol' portable A/C just in case the temps get outta hand in the near future.

Click to expand...

It's more important that the amount of photon influx is right. Since you use Automatiks this gives you even the option to increase to 20/4 or even more - in order to compensate a weak light. But until the spot is filled with leaves - that light is sufficient. But once the colas shoot up high, flower sets in, then they should see more. Preferably of redish color. Best suitable light for high temps is LED hands down, look for either Cree or Citizen COBs, or Samsung lm301b/h boards. There are some less expensive smaller racks, just as an example:

not perfect - as the 660nm mono brand isn't stated (means they are low quality) but this one is better than most other at Amazon

Greets

I appreciate the insights and recommendations. I've looked at the link you referenced and I'm may hop on that deal... I'll look at it in more depth later tonight or tomorrow.

With regard to your point about the light schedule for the autos... I've thought about increasing my schedule to 20/4 or even 22/2, but have been reluctant since 2 of the plants are Gorilla Glue Auto which I heard can turn hermie if you stress them. Do you think pushing the limits on light schedule would stress those 2 plants? I don't want to lose half my crop to hermies (or worse, the whole crop if I don't pull them in time!) If you don't think they'll be stressed, what schedule would you recommend?

John1977 said:

I appreciate the insights and recommendations. I've looked at the link you referenced and I'm may hop on that deal... I'll look at it in more depth later tonight or tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Just keep in mind - if the diodes aren't named you can always expect bad quality.

John1977 said:

With regard to your point about the light schedule for the autos... I've thought about increasing my schedule to 20/4 or even 22/2, but have been reluctant since 2 of the plants are Gorilla Glue Auto which I heard can turn hermie if you stress them. Do you think pushing the limits on light schedule would stress those 2 plants? I don't want to lose half my crop to hermies (or worse, the whole crop if I don't pull them in time!) If you don't think they'll be stressed, what schedule would you recommend?

Click to expand...

Well, it totally depends on how much light your plants actually need - we draw a differentiation between seedlings, vegetative growth & flowering:
Seedling: 150ppfd ("very little")
Vegetative: 250-400ppfd ("half strength")
Flowering: 700-1000ppfd ("full strength")

Depending on lamp-system used, this could be expressed as 'wattage-per-squarefoot" as well (search for @Rocket Soul 's post to get the numbers...)

However, your plants need a dedicated amount of photonic influx, and in veg you can use a number of different lighting times to arrive at the "Daily Light Integral" (DLI) - but since you use Automatics, you have all liberty at your disposal to play around with the lighting regiment as you wish - even in flower.
In other words, and put blunt, if your lamp is a bit too weak you could compensate that by increasing the daily light ON interval, and it works the other way around, too, of course.

A lot of people veg under 24/0 continuous light and their plants grow just fine.
Others state that a dark period is needed for recuperation.
Hence, a 20/4 regiment on autos has become the official standard - a compromise to increase growth and still allow for regeneration.

I personally give seedling, or very small plants, always 24/0 light - but soft one, because tiny plant cannot store much sugar/starch.
I then reduce to 20/4 in veg (autos) - because you want to have your plant grow as much as possible in veg. It has an inbred timer and will flower regardless of size, that is, the danger it incorporates is it begins flowering when it is still too small.... so you want to optimize the growth in veg as much as possible.
Actually, this is true for the flowering as well, so if your light in flower is insufficient, you better compensate by increasing it's ON time - as light deprivation is "stress" as well and would impose a great limiting factor that could incapacitate your grow totally... so for Automatiks, anything between 10/14 to 24/0 is possible - but an optimally dialed-in grow would use 20/4.

As with regards to your comment on herming - if it happens - it's mostly genetically induced.
Optimizing the environmental values is one key to not stress a plant, plus it'll also optimize the growth generally; so some of the biggest factors are:
- Feedings (pH, EC, correct watering)
- Medium quality
- Lightquantity (less: quality)
- Temperature, air humidity ("VPD")

Growing is a complex entity - you may be able to use some of the keywords I've used in this text to search for more in-depths explanations here in the forum.
Hope this helps you a bit further out.

John1977 said:

Grow area is 30" x 30" x 58" ... I guess a picture's worth a thousand words so I included an image below. I still have to finish a few things here and there but they germinated so quick they needed to get potted before I could finish.

For demo purposes, I've shown just one balast in the right corner below, but would essentially do the same thing on the other side. Just need to find my other balast in the garage. I

You are absolutely correct in that I am using a cheap blurple LED from amazon, therefore, sounds like you recommend I should throw all the light I have at 'em, and just very well may do that. I haven't seen the LED retrofit for the balasts so I'll have to check into those.


View attachment 4734863

For the space, do you think the lighting would be sufficient for the 4 autos in the fabric pots (the 2 small cups and the one in the middle will be moved outdoors)

Click to expand...

Are those t12 bulbs? Definitely look into led retro fit bulbs at HD(directional output). Also would have the fluoro fixture above the plants and close to them. Not going to do much sitting upright in a corner.

Honestly after this run I would look into an efficient led grow light that fits this space better, scrap everything else. Increase in yield will be worth it.

Probably block more light than they produce

Kassiopeija said:

Just keep in mind - if the diodes aren't named you can always expect bad quality.


Well, it totally depends on how much light your plants actually need - we draw a differentiation between seedlings, vegetative growth & flowering:
Seedling: 150ppfd ("very little")
Vegetative: 250-400ppfd ("half strength")
Flowering: 700-1000ppfd ("full strength")

Depending on lamp-system used, this could be expressed as 'wattage-per-squarefoot" as well (search for @Rocket Soul 's post to get the numbers...)

However, your plants need a dedicated amount of photonic influx, and in veg you can use a number of different lighting times to arrive at the "Daily Light Integral" (DLI) - but since you use Automatics, you have all liberty at your disposal to play around with the lighting regiment as you wish - even in flower.
In other words, and put blunt, if your lamp is a bit too weak you could compensate that by increasing the daily light ON interval, and it works the other way around, too, of course.

A lot of people veg under 24/0 continuous light and their plants grow just fine.
Others state that a dark period is needed for recuperation.
Hence, a 20/4 regiment on autos has become the official standard - a compromise to increase growth and still allow for regeneration.

I personally give seedling, or very small plants, always 24/0 light - but soft one, because tiny plant cannot store much sugar/starch.
I then reduce to 20/4 in veg (autos) - because you want to have your plant grow as much as possible in veg. It has an inbred timer and will flower regardless of size, that is, the danger it incorporates is it begins flowering when it is still too small.... so you want to optimize the growth in veg as much as possible.
Actually, this is true for the flowering as well, so if your light in flower is insufficient, you better compensate by increasing it's ON time - as light deprivation is "stress" as well and would impose a great limiting factor that could incapacitate your grow totally... so for Automatiks, anything between 10/14 to 24/0 is possible - but an optimally dialed-in grow would use 20/4.

As with regards to your comment on herming - if it happens - it's mostly genetically induced.
Optimizing the environmental values is one key to not stress a plant, plus it'll also optimize the growth generally; so some of the biggest factors are:
- Feedings (pH, EC, correct watering)
- Medium quality
- Lightquantity (less: quality)
- Temperature, air humidity ("VPD")

Growing is a complex entity - you may be able to use some of the keywords I've used in this text to search for more in-depths explanations here in the forum.
Hope this helps you a bit further out.

Click to expand...

Wow, this is an excellent kickstart... thanks for the info. I'll be going through it in much more detail, and hope to learn plenty.

With regard to the link you provided yesterday for the VIPARSPECTRA site, I was checking out their product line and think I may bite the bullet on the XS150. If I go that route will I need any other supplemental lighting, or should that take care of it?