CFL 1st Grow - Need some tips

First time poster here, and a first time grower,
Northern lights x skunk - feminized from world of seeds
Soil, CFL and HPS

I've set up a couple CFL's so far - one is a giant 200w dual spect. And the other is a 160w 27K (blue). Only one little guy in there at the moment but will be planting 6-8 plants in total so will need much more light correct? At least a 600w HPS? Anyway my space is a strange shape so I'm gonna get some of the foam board insulation and Mylar the insides - building a custom grow box that will be 80cm wide, 150 long and 160 tall. I'm aiming for at least 30-40oz dried so is this enough room (12 weeks start to finish grow time - is this easily achievable or wishful thinking)? I'm watering every time the top inch or two of soil is dry and the water is room temp tap water with 1ml canna rhizotonic ONLY - no other nutes. My baby is only 9 days old since being planted, will this cause stress or am I doing the right thing to enhance root growth? I've got a small fan in there but will set up my ducting and filters when necessary. The temperature right under the lights where the plant sits is between 25-30 Celsius so I guess that's ok? (I want a bit of purple on there). Anyways I'm sure that's enough info - if i have missed anything just ask. I need you to point out anything I can do better, budget is very limited but I still want to hear what options i have as I can usually work something out.

thanks, RCD

You have great ideas, but as a first time grower... yeah I'd say you have extremely high expectations. Start small, have patience, and don't try alot of techniques. Trail and error...

the "CFL" section would've been a better spot for this as well.

Good luck my friend.

Here's a bit on your hopes:

For CFLs you need to have the plants as close as possible as they produce very little light compared to "proper" grow bulbs. But you can get some (small generally) results from CFLs. You will *not* get an average of 5 ounces a plant, you'll definitely need to switch to HPS if you want any large yield.

To get 12 weeks start to finish (without clones) you're really going to have to do lowrider strains, generally speaking, it's *extremely* hard to get 5 ounces a plant from lowriders. (I've heard stories, but they're just that, stories.) If you started from seed a more realistic time period from hatch to snip is 16 weeks depending on the strain and how quickly it matures, you can cut the veg down, but you'll be sacrificing yield in the end.

At 1.5m x .8 x 1.6m tall you're looking at ~13 square feet and 5feet in height from the floor to the ceiling. This is fairly short, this is EXTREMELY short if you want to use a grow bulb as by and large they produce heat. You would get acceptable yields in a room this size with 250W HPS and heat would be reduced. The supposed ideal light is 50watts per square feet, so a 600 would get you close to there. However it also generates a good chunk of heat, so you'd need to have an air cooled ballast and keep the plants at least 6 inches from it at all times (ideal depends on the effectiveness of the ballast, could be as high as 18 inches which would drop you down to ~30 inches tall for the plants including the pots... )

Realistically in a closet that size with a 250-400W HPS for flowering you'll see 3/4 - 1.5 ounce a plant most likely. You'd want to do a continual harvest to keep yourself happy. If you do put a 600W in there I'd be really interested in how you managed heat....

As Mwine said, start small, and go *slow*, if you rush your herb you'll not be happy with the results.

Thanks a lot for the tips both of you - I appreciate it. I will attach a pic of my grow space as those demensions are if I were to build a grow box rather than a grow ROOM (which i think is my preffered option now). I WILL be using a 600w HPS as soon as my plants get big enough to need them - aswell as my CFL just for extra light (27K cant hurt for flowering too? More light is always better yes?).
I was optimistic about 12 weeks i know - 16 to 20 may be ideal then for my targets. I will be using canna products, superthrive, all that jazz in order to boost my yeilds. A friend of mine has one plant in an 80x80x160 tent with one 400w hps and averages about 5oz dried & cured. He says germ to harvest 12-14 weeks.
Any tips for super-cropping, scrogging and curing ???

Thanks RCD

Got a little setup going just for now - HPS to come shortly

mwine87 said:

the "CFL" section would've been a better spot for this as well.

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I must point out this is not about a CFL grow as such - I will be adding HPS very shortly - and i am not looking for information about CFL lights - rather a general grow guide i can update as my plants progress and others can guide me along the way . Apologies for the misleading title.

RCD

Dude, if your friend gets 5 ounces finished from one plant with that sort of ceiling + such a short veg time that's the one you want to talk to, not us tossers Unless it was one of those strains that yields like a mother but has no power...

If you're serious about a 600W in that size of a room, think cooling / ventilation thoughts now (I would go 400 myself, but I don't get huge yields). As far as what to do, annoyingly (?) each plant behaves differently, some thrive on stress and being trained/cropped others do best when just left alone and cleared of the bottom branches (clones!). After the first harvest you'll have the branches you trimmed rooted and ready to go then apply what you learned to these. You should find your yields go up each round.

As far as what style to do, ponder where you live and if you are more concerned about getting caught with X# of plants, or just the weight of plants? If number (they look at the plants and say street value of X amount each because they could in theory grow to be 7 feet tall), then you want to go the (super)cropping route and hope your plant is one that loves it. If your legal system is more concerned about weight (and they don't weigh the bloody dirt like some places....) then a sea of green would be the way to go in a small area. Generally speaking though that adds time to the harvest as it takes awhile to train (or clone) the plants...

Also, unless you're working with feminized seeds (and even if you are...) you can't be sure which plant is a female until they show their sex (early flowering), so it's possible even though you're planting 5 plants (from fem seeds) you may only get 3 girls viable... I'm sure someone else can give you better advice for maximizing yields as my plants seem to be on the middle scale for yield. I will say however, for taste (and to help the microbs) if you alternate between feeding and water, do a little bit of organic molasses (blackstrap) say 1 (then advancing to 2 tbsp per gallon as you advance in flowering.) Makes a world of difference for the taste and smell IMHO (and is cheap as chips no matter where you live.)

Talk to your bud who can actually see everything and has yielded well (f you've ever seen the 5 Os for yourself and low the Os they were numbered 5) he knows what he's doing I think even when I did my one monster (trained for ever, bushy as fuck) tent plant under a 600W I didn't get 5 Os from it, but really, that was before I got into weighing my harvest, so maybe it was.... (I *think* that plant is my icon).

Really though, it's a plant, pay attention to its color and how the leaves are and let it guide you. Hopefully you're not colorblind like I.

Have fun

Edit: just in case you're truly looking for the basics, vent wise you ideally want to draw "outside" air in from a bottom corner and draw the air to exhaust out from the opposite top corner giving nice airflow and capturing a bit of excess heat. And make sure to use a carbon filter before they start to smell. You can draw the air through the CF, or push the air out through the CF (pushing out would likely be your best option since you have so little prospective floor space in your room.) Hope this is clear and doesn't sound like I'm talking down to you / out my ass as I'm a bit to the wind as I am celebrating my medical card.

Honestly the pictures do no justice to my room, i have set up multiple tents etc in other houses just never my own and i know i have plenty of room for venting and a 600w.. I live in the land of robin hood (not to be bait - google it) so its a bit risky weight wise but there are so many people doing things around here they dont do much if you get clocked - a fine and slap on the wrist anything for about 4 -8 plants. My seeds are fem from world of seeds. I have 2 clones in root gel since friday off of another plant so i think i will supercrop those and LST my northern lights x skunk and the fruity cronic juice all into one scrog under a 600w with some CFL in the dark spots. I will get some superthrive. Also how important is pH? Would you recommend a digi ph meter?
The same guy has one in flower with about 4 weeks, the nugs are swollen and sticky as fuck, to touch they smell like an actual lemon sliced in half, amazing aroma .. It looks as though he will have 5 off that aswell, the buds are curling back down in the lights reflector - no more room lol.
I hear of people regularly getting 8-10oz per plant - thats only 280g - i thought medical were growing about 1g per watt of light optimal ?

Yeah, I hear you about room picturing

And yup that town (if you mean literally) is actually a fairly good place to get caught growing as they're less likely to throw the book at you as opposed to further south (as a bonus they also have wimpys ). It's at one time annoying that england gives so much power to the judges so you never know what the charge / results will be, but on the other hand, a lot of the judges aren't as hard assed as they could be... I had a buddy who was banged up for a decent sized grow and for inciting other people to grow (long story, he made the papers) and he served no time. Hell, you're even allowed to legally have seeds (shame about mushrooms though).

1G per watt is considered ideal (and in my world is pretty much the most a person can aim to manage to get if they do everything spot on and have an excellent yield.) I've only matched that when I was doing a 250W ikea closet grow and did a sea of green (oddly enough just south of you). Think towards the end (giving the plants nearly 8 weeks of veg under a 125/150W CF while the previous generation finished) my dried weight was 210G (had they all been the big yielder I would have broken the 1G/W by a bit but it wasn't a good enough smoke to keep in rotation). When you start using more light, it gets really hard to maintain the gram per watt but people do say they've done it, and some people claim to have passed it (several on uk420 if memory serves, joolez or something like those stand out in my mind as excellent green thumbs). Now that I'm legal again I'm going to spend the next year playing with some of my seeds and see what I can manage to coax out of the plants. Under a 1kW light (overkill but it was what I was given) in a standard tent (size escapes me at the moment) I ended up with 18 plants yielding on avg 1.5 ounces per plant so apparently I'm stuck at ~0.77G /watt. But that's also with a lot of plants as I haven't been able to get my per plant yield up above 1.5O yet (unless I do just one plant, but that's a pita). Mind you for the final round each of those 1.5O were the best smoke I've ever had so at least I have the quality down if not the quantity Generally speaking you'll get closer to the magical 1G/W goal with more plants as opposed to fewer. But you won't get 5O per plant when you stuff them all in there so it's a bit of a balancing act depending on your goals...

If you're sticking with soil you don't have to worry about ph as much as with hydro (though it does play some part, but the soil acts as a nice buffer so I've never used Ph - or + with my grows...) it's more about the ppm as you don't want to burn your girls. With the level of hard water in the midlands you'll definitely want to let the water sit (bubbling if you have an air stone / aquarium pump) open for a day or so before mixing in the nutes, and then if you are able let the nutes bubble for another day before adding them to the plants. Just remember, filter filter filter, in your neck of the woods it's always the smell that gives it away, the electrical companies don't often nark on you unless you're drawing an obscene amount of power. However, you might also need to get a portable air conditioner for the room that your room is in as this summer is supposed to be hot and odds are you don't have central air I assume. Though all depends on when you harvest and if you're going to go the continual harvest route...

Yeah u know the town then im gonna try the main-line (or manifold) type supercropping and see if i can get 32 main colas to scrog with each plant. Im wondering how long that will add to the grow time ? Maybe 3 weeks?

Yeah, I think that's a good estimate for planning purposes if you start early enough from what I read, heck possibly even just 2 weeks. I honestly don't know yet as that's actually what I was going to try to experiment with on my outdoor plants this year (I think I decided on 16 for my theoretical greenhouse though don't recall why.) I've been told (repeatedly) that by getting into topping I will dramatically enhance my yields without sacrificing quality, now that I'll have an extended time to play I look forward to trying. The goal is to (at least indoors) have one massively topped plant grown next to a clone with just the bottom branches removed and no topping.

Shes too small to start yet but when she has 4-5 nodes ill top and tie, wait until the growth tips develop before topping again, then i will repeat this untill i have a nice looking even manifold with either 16 or 32 colas (probably 32 i like the sound of that) formed by LST under a screen. Using biobizz products (grow-bloom-topmax). Ill will be using this thread as a journal and post pics throughout, if she turns out nice ill make a grow guide.

stsin said:

The goal is to (at least indoors) have one massively topped plant grown next to a clone with just the bottom branches removed and no topping.

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I don't understand what you mean about the clone being next to it? And not topping so surely you cant have it under the scrog too? Can i do that with one light?

Rollcheesedaily said:

I don't understand what you mean about the clone being next to it? And not topping so surely you cant have it under the scrog too? Can i do that with one light?

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What I mean is I want to have two clones that are identicle in my room under the same light, same feed schedule, etc. On one I will top the hell out of it (4+ "mains") the other I'll do my standard only trim branches and compare what sort of yield and effect (if any) differences I get between the two. But no, I can't put it under a screen doing that way, but I also don't use screens so it's ok (I'm a tomato cage support type person).

Thats a good idea, iv just done the first stage of mainlining and will be putting under hps later today, shes looking good so far, nutes will begin when shes recovered and started to grow a little.. 4 x blues cuttings will be potted and under lights in next couple days

great shot! Damn, that's a tight shave, hope she recovers nicely

Man the worst thing happened, i snapped one of thr top leaves clean off at the stem im devastated - do you think ill be able to obtain a decent yield still?

if you stop poking it you will You've just set it a bit further behind, but really only one big leaf WILL give it some power for growing, but it's less than ideal.

You'll be fine just don't push it too hard, and try not to add extra stress, and make sure it's pretty far from the hps for awhile as you want it to adjust to the new light levels without being shocked. Have faith and patience and you'll be happy in the end

So it's been almost a couple of weeks, did the plant recover?

Thanks for showing interest, iv been busy for the past few days.. Shes recovered nicely and I've just topped and trimmed for the second & final time, once recovered i will be starting nutrients