CFL Lumens/Watt Chart - Find Most Efficient Setup

nongreenthumb said:
that was the way it looked first off,

it wasnt your intention and this bit of banter has gone further than it should have done, it was a misunderstanding that has been cleared up, i was just explaining how i misunderstood you.

cfls dont have the same reach as hps

the light deminishes just as quickly though

intensity = lumens divided by distance squared

that is the law of deminishing light

so if you got a 2000 lumen cfl at a foot away

2000 / 1 x 1 =2000

2 foot away 2000 / 2 x 2 = 500

600w hps


92000 / 2 x 2 = 23,000

so as you can see the light deminishes at the same rate but because the hps has more lumens to start with it has a further reach
Click to expand...




well said!
 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light Intensity [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically. (If you can borrow, beg, steal or get access to a light meter please try this ~ you will be extremely surprised at the rate at which the light intensity reduces over a short distance)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Light from an HID or HPS lamp reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your lamps are 2' or 3’ above your plants much of the light is wasted. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants and much of the light, and your money, is wasted.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]One benefit of using high-out put CFL’s is that they do not generate as much heat and can be kept almost on top of the plants producing the exact 100% PAR light, with no loss of intensity. So if you position these new lamps close to the leaves you get the benefit of 100% PAR light in the correct 400nw to 700nw range, giving the plant the correct light colours and light quality.[/FONT]
 
FC-Chart-HPS.jpg
 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]For growers PAR is all-important ~ and as important as lumens! PAR stands for > Photosynthetic Active Radiation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photosynthetic, the light sensed by a leaf pigment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Radiation, another word for light & photon energy[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is a measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to growing and greenhouse light measurement. Why is it important to you?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then the actual output lumen of the grow lamp! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]* A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light colours that the plant uses to energise its pigments and generate sugar energy, and it’s the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce such sweet fruits![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR and Fluorescent Lamps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! ) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps[/FONT]
 
nongreenthumb said:
that was the way it looked first off,

it wasnt your intention and this bit of banter has gone further than it should have done, it was a misunderstanding that has been cleared up, i was just explaining how i misunderstood you.

cfls dont have the same reach as hps

the light deminishes just as quickly though

intensity = lumens divided by distance squared

that is the law of deminishing light

so if you got a 2000 lumen cfl at a foot away

2000 / 1 x 1 =2000

2 foot away 2000 / 2 x 2 = 500

600w hps

92000 / 2 x 2 = 23,000

so as you can see the light deminishes at the same rate but because the hps has more lumens to start with it has a further reach
Click to expand...


Agreed, but who puts CFLs 1 foot away?
I have all of mine within 1" of the plant with reflectors on all, in enclosed reflective area. I lose very little light/intensity.
 
re read everything i wrote

I have never said that you should keep a cfl at a foot away,

i was only explaining to someone that light deminishes the same regardless of bulb type.
 
nongreenthumb said:
oh and i keep my one and only cfl a foot away because of heat
Click to expand...


Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to say. This thread was made to find the most efficient setup and get input about CFL lighting setups.

I know that an HPS system is better, but CFLs are cheaper and require less wattage. As well, I can put my CFLs so close to the plants that I don't lose many lumens.

I have 42w CFLs within 2" of my plants not burning them; however, I do have a fan on them at all times.
 
FirstTimeGrow said:
Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to say. This thread was made to find the most efficient setup and get input about CFL lighting setups.

I know that an HPS system is better, but CFLs are cheaper and require less wattage. As well, I can put my CFLs so close to the plants that I don't lose many lumens.

I have 42w CFLs within 2" of my plants not burning them; however, I do have a fan on them at all times.
Click to expand...

not that this is a pissing contest or my dads bigger than yours, but the cfl i have is 250w and produces a surprising amount of heat, it severly harmed 5 plants on its first day of use.

are you going to use a hps or anything else to flower with or just your 42w's
 
I can only comment on the success I have had with CFLs, and how I enjoy coming home everyday and moving them around, and how easy it is to move them. I VEG with 85 Watts, different bulbs for red and blue spectrums. I used one bulb per plant until I get to teh FLOWERING stage. Then I go crazy with 65 watts, 45 watts and 24 watt bulbs, sticking them everywhere I can.
Look at this man's CFL grow here:
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/9841-update-cfl-46-days-flower.html

and look at my Grow:
Look at a few of my pics here in Grow Room Setup:

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5030

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5029

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5028 < nice top

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-pics/index.php?n=5027 < 4 feet tall

PEACE
 
nongreenthumb said:
not that this is a pissing contest or my dads bigger than yours, but the cfl i have is 250w and produces a surprising amount of heat, it severly harmed 5 plants on its first day of use.

are you going to use a hps or anything else to flower with or just your 42w's
Click to expand...


I will only be using my CFLs. I am down to 3 plants now, trashed one male yesterday, and I think another is a male. I guess 2/4 is right on, but I really wanted 3/4.

Regardless, these 7 bulbs will be about right for 2 plants anyway to get some fat plants. I would probably get the same amount with 4 plants and same lights anyway.
 
ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]PAR and Fluorescent Lamps[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! ) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps[/FONT]
Click to expand...


Thanx a lot 4 this Sativa. I'm a newbie struggling to come to terms with light basics and your comments are some of the clearest and most informative on the subject that I've read.
 
Roseman said:
I can only comment on the success I have had with CFLs, and how I enjoy coming home everyday and moving them around, and how easy it is to move them. I VEG with 85 Watts, different bulbs for red and blue spectrums. I used one bulb per plant until I get to teh FLOWERING stage. Then I go crazy with 65 watts, 45 watts and 24 watt bulbs, sticking them everywhere I can.
Look at this man's CFL grow here:
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/9841-update-cfl-46-days-flower.html

Hey Roseman - proof that high output cfl's really CAN work for flowering. More and more I'm considering going with cfl's for my own flowering. As you say they are easy to move around, plus they are cheaper to buy AND cheaper to run. How many cfl's do you use exactly? And how can I tell the different spectrum cfl's? Is it down to the wattage or do they come with different light descriptions, eg: 'white light', 'warm light'.
Click to expand...
 
Hey Roseman - proof that high output cfl's really CAN work for flowering. More and more I'm considering going with cfl's for my own flowering. As you say they are easy to move around, plus they are cheaper to buy AND cheaper to run. How many cfl's do you use exactly? And how can I tell the different spectrum cfl's? Is it down to the wattage or do they come with different light descriptions, eg: 'white light', 'warm light'.
Click to expand...
They are cheaper to run, and are a lot cooler, so you can put them closer, and you don't need to worry about ventilation as much.

How many you use depends on what you want, and how much you want to spend. Go by the lumens when deciding though. They say that the sun puts out 10,000 lumens/sqaure foot, so if you can get something like 2000 lumens/square foot or more that would be ideal. I have 3 plants in a small area with 7 CFLs that total about 15,000 lumens. As the plants get bigger, you may want to ad light to increase side lighting, etc.

As far as the light spectrum goes, the light temperature is measured in degrees of Kelvin. 3000K is warm light and is good for flowering. 6000k or 6500k is daylight/white light and is good for vegging. Usually it will say this on the package of the bulb or on the ballast of the bulb, but sometimes you can't find it anywhere.
 
get yourself an hid light for growin pot, everything has its place in the grow room and when it comes to cfls its unrooted clones and the momma.
 
aren't cfls classified hid (high intensity discharge)?

I don't know why they get such a bad rep here. When used properly they can produce good results (don't read this as exceptional). I've got 24 cfls around two plants and the bottom branch buds are as big as the ones directly under the cola. Penetration isn't that big of an issue when you can put 12 of 'em over, under, beside, and every other angle around a plant.

My next grow is going to be a scrog grow under a rack of 24 lights (I may even go up to 36 since I have the sockets and lights at my disposal). I'll have even coverage from corner to corner of my 8 square foot growing area. Since I won't be concerned with getting any bottom growth, they should be great. Besides, in a scrog, why would the stalk need light penetration?
 
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