Chemical = more potent?

GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
When non organic it is a must. Done proper u could flush 7-9 days before harvest. Organics, well the first season I did I just quit giving nutrients 10 days before harvest and the plant did not finish on time, went a week longer than expected. So now I wait until the buds start to swell then just give water and molasses until harvest (5-7 days).
 
R

Root Source

Member
Touchy subject for folks. I think they both have their place and I use some of each.
Another topic besides NPK is the micro-nutrients. Unless you are building soil for the long haul most of the sources just don't provide much until years pass. If you throw out your soil after each cycle it is better to look to different means of getting these to your plants. If not, then all one needs to do is be aware of the rate of release.
I use them all in combination so my plants have what they want when they want it.

Trying to look at it objectively it appears that both organic and processed sources wind up being converted to or used as the same elements. Plants can only feed on what they recognize as food. It isn't so much a choice for them as it is chemistry. Add too much or too little commercial or organic ferts over the long haul and you will get similar results. Soil biology is a whole different matter....
 
bluemagicman

bluemagicman

Well-Known Member
Well the way i think about it is if i've been feeding them for 3+ months they can go a week on water and molasses while using up the nutes in the soil
 
GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Root Source said:
Touchy subject for folks.
Trying to look at it objectively it appears that both organic and processed sources wind up being converted to or used as the same elements. Plants can only feed on what they recognize as food. It isn't so much a choice for them as it is chemistry. Add too much or too little commercial or organic ferts over the long haul and you will get similar results. Soil biology is a whole different matter....
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How the plant gets it food and the source it is derived from is the key ! When processed source is from chemicals the roots do not recognize this and therefore we flood the roots with extreme high nutrients. One example for you as there are many~ Fox Farm Open Sesame® Soluble Fertilizer (5-45-19)
Now lets look at organics ~ Hammerhead 2-4-8 . The reason it is so low and yet does a much better job on final product than synthetics is because it is more natural to the plants roots ( n short).
How about Veganics ? I have yet to explore fully but I have read that the acceptable ph range that the roots will start up taking is like from 6.3 to 7.3 or something wide like that. Here some homework on Veganics https://www.rollitup.org/organics/364864-vegan-organics-aka-veganics-matt.html .

So u see, if you want to get the plants full potential, you must be aware of the way the roots uptake the nutrients.
Synthetic nutrient grown plants will always fall short in many catorgies when up against organics/veganics . Hydro will fall short as well, as we all are aware that hydro is more yield but less potent and flavor than any soil grow. Again it has to do with the way the roots uptake their nutes.
 
doniawon

doniawon

Well-Known Member
GoldenGanja13 said:
How the plant gets it food and the source it is derived from is the key ! When processed source is from chemicals the roots do not recognize this and therefore we flood the roots with extreme high nutrients. One example for you as there are many~ Fox Farm Open Sesame® Soluble Fertilizer (5-45-19)
Now lets look at organics ~ Hammerhead 2-4-8 . The reason it is so low and yet does a much better job on final product than synthetics is because it is more natural to the plants roots ( n short).
How about Veganics ? I have yet to explore fully but I have read that the acceptable ph range that the roots will start up taking is like from 6.3 to 7.3 or something wide like that. Here some homework on Veganics https://www.rollitup.org/organics/364864-vegan-organics-aka-veganics-matt.html .

So u see, if you want to get the plants full potential, you must be aware of the way the roots uptake the nutrients.
Synthetic nutrient grown plants will always fall short in many catorgies when up against organics/veganics . Hydro will fall short as well, as we all are aware that hydro is more yield but less potent and flavor than any soil grow. Again it has to do with the way the roots uptake their nutes.
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Why does it matter where the nutrients where derived?.. isnt it more important how they are broken down, chleated or absorbed into the plant. Mined, or composted in the end its the same nutrients being used by the plant. If it comes from a shit heap or a mineral mine in the end its the same as long as it enters the plant. Synthetic nutrients are made to be easily absorbed via roots straight from the bottle and a simple PPM tester will insure that the plants are feeding correctly which allows for 100% totally control. Hydro doesnt fall short to "DIRT" (dont forget there are plent of organic hydro growers) there are too many variables, its not that cut and dry. also differnt nutrients are absorbed at different pH levels so a mild drift in ph is normal. How many hydro growers do you know that throw high levels of nute at there plants?? That kills plants from toxity. Im confused on alot of your points and it seems like your spewing hydro hate.. which you are. your wrong. both methods grown proper yield and produce great quality herbs. the main factor is the gardner not the medium.
 
GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Ok Ok i was going to just say going to reply something like "you can lead a horse to water....." Being you clear-lee have no idea what ur saying.Then i read this ( Synthetic nutrients are made to be easily absorbed via roots The red is where u need most schooled
doniawon said:
Why does it matter where the nutrients where derived?.. isnt it more important how they are broken down, chleated or absorbed into the plant. Mined, or composted in the end its the same nutrients being used by the plant. If it comes from a shit heap or a mineral mine in the end its the same as long as it enters the plant. Synthetic nutrients are made to be easily absorbed via roots straight from the bottle and a simple PPM tester will insure that the plants are feeding correctly which allows for 100% totally control. Hydro doesnt fall short to "DIRT" (dont forget there are plent of organic hydro growers) there are too many variables, its not that cut and dry. also differnt nutrients are absorbed at different pH levels so a mild drift in ph is normal. How many hydro growers do you know that throw high levels of nute at there plants?? That kills plants from toxity. Im confused on alot of your points and it seems like your spewing hydro hate.. which you are. your wrong. both methods grown proper yield and produce great quality herbs. the main factor is the gardner not the medium.
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U see my dilemma. There is much schooling to be done here and i have not the patience for beating a dead horse. ~Namaste
 
doniawon

doniawon

Well-Known Member
GoldenGanja13 said:
Ok Ok i was going to just say going to reply something like "you can lead a horse to water....." Being you clear-lee have no idea what ur saying.Then i read this ( Synthetic nutrients are made to be easily absorbed via roots The red is where u need most schooled

U see my dilemma. There is much schooling to be done here and i have not the patience for beating a dead horse. ~Namaste
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Your telling stories outside of the class room. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer what am i missing?
 
GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Yes it is very time consuming when u first embark the organic path. Organic High Horse lol. Well when i was synthetics i never had a complaint, but i personally always felt like i could do better. Then i went organic and wow what a tall horse i am on now being my clients are giggling like school children and enjoy the longer lasting highs and top rate flavors.
NoBarriers said:
My patients don't complain and I don't have time to ride the Organic High Horse.
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doniawon

doniawon

Well-Known Member
*Every single cell in a clone has the exact same (full) DNA as the parent plant, it is literally the same plant as its mother.

There is no such thing as an F1 clone aswell btw, lol, you can have a clone of an F1 plant, but the clone is exactly the same as its parent. F1 is the first batch of seeds in breeding from a new cross and is the most unstable point in your new strain.

You have alot of shit mixed up and you should really go clarify your "facts" before making assumptions from half read forum bullshit.

Now...to the people who think organic and chemical ferts provide the plants with different chemicals..lol, and to the people who think flushing (in soil at least) is necessary, lol to you too!

Chemical ferts are just available to the plant straight away instead of having to be broken down like organics, they still provide the same chemicals once they're broken down.

Flushing is a poor/misunderstood attempt to start fermentation before the plant dies. The idea with fermentation is that you put the root zone in water for several days before harvest, as it begins fermentation from a lack of O2, starches & complex carbs are broken down in anaerobic respiration and as such the "cure" starts before the plant is even chopped. Its got nothing to do with chemicals in the buds.


Popping, bad tasting weed is from bad drying/curing; as the chlorophyll, starches and other carbs are not broken down, its not from the nutrients. Anyone who thinks a plant stores raw minerals in the bud needs to quit growing for a while and read
*
  • saw this post and though i should re post it here for some reason.
 
poplars

poplars

Well-Known Member
doniawon said:
*Every single cell in a clone has the exact same (full) DNA as the parent plant, it is literally the same plant as its mother.

There is no such thing as an F1 clone aswell btw, lol, you can have a clone of an F1 plant, but the clone is exactly the same as its parent. F1 is the first batch of seeds in breeding from a new cross and is the most unstable point in your new strain.

You have alot of shit mixed up and you should really go clarify your "facts" before making assumptions from half read forum bullshit.

Now...to the people who think organic and chemical ferts provide the plants with different chemicals..lol, and to the people who think flushing (in soil at least) is necessary, lol to you too!

Chemical ferts are just available to the plant straight away instead of having to be broken down like organics, they still provide the same chemicals once they're broken down.

Flushing is a poor/misunderstood attempt to start fermentation before the plant dies. The idea with fermentation is that you put the root zone in water for several days before harvest, as it begins fermentation from a lack of O2, starches & complex carbs are broken down in anaerobic respiration and as such the "cure" starts before the plant is even chopped. Its got nothing to do with chemicals in the buds.


Popping, bad tasting weed is from bad drying/curing; as the chlorophyll, starches and other carbs are not broken down, its not from the nutrients. Anyone who thinks a plant stores raw minerals in the bud needs to quit growing for a while and read
*
  • saw this post and though i should re post it here for some reason.
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the thing that's annoying about this whole post is that even if you followed everything you said to a T there would STILL be significant differences...

what we're trying to convey here is that the plant over all is much healthier, the roots are picking up nutrients in a more natural way, in a more balanced way.. a non-stressed plant produces better than a stressed plant, and to sya that where your fertilizer comes from doesn't matter is like saying you could take the nastiest lowest q uality fertilizer and grow amazing tasting bud as if you had picked the best ingredients for flavor... what you put into the plant shows up after harvest... it's absolute idiocy to think that it just magically ignores the fact that you gave it nasty chemicals that if you got them on your skin you'd have a chemical burn..............
 
poplars

poplars

Well-Known Member
I mean really all the people arguiing for chemicals over organic I don't think have had the opprotunity to try true organic bud vs non-organic... the difference in harshness of the smoke is DRAMATIC.... and I cured properly in glass jars for over 6 months and the difference was STILL obvious... I was NOT doing anything wrong there is just a major difference here otherwise we growers wouldn't be investing hundreds of dollars in this shit..... seriously.

you can't convince us it doesn't matter when life experience proves that otherwise, time and time again.
 
poplars

poplars

Well-Known Member
but I do support chemical grows for the low ass prices people in cali expect us growers to sell our shit for... if soemoen wants a 1300 dollar pound, I'm growing that shit chemical, period.....
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
GoldenGanja13 said:
Organics are more potent and longer lasting highs, and flavors are best. Chemicals just beef up bud size.
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ABSOLUTELY!!! Biologists and Botanists all agree that without the mycorrhizal fungi and bacteria in the root/soil interface a plant cannot achieve it's full potential. Organics are the only way to fly IMHO. Not to say that folks who don't grow organically don't produce stellar bud. I'm just basing this off my own observation and current scientific study. Organics do taste better, and the high does seem to last longer (I dunno, maybe?)
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
poplars said:
but I do support chemical grows for the low ass prices people in cali expect us growers to sell our shit for... if soemoen wants a 1300 dollar pound, I'm growing that shit chemical, period.....
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If you're in soil, check out Espoma brand ferts. The Plant Tone they make is a phenominal fert for organic MJ and Is "dirt" cheap. Pun Intended. I use it a lot when I can't get my free bunny poop. I top dress their bone meal on during flower and I get SUPERB results. At least that's the feed back I get from my friends!!!! They all wanna know where I get my stuff!!

Organic soil grows are a whole lot cheaper to get into than a hydro system. The fert companies are just doing their jobs by brainwashing everyone into believing that they have the best product. But as far as I know, scientists have yet to even come close to duplicating mother nature. The end result of your grow is predetermined by genetics. NOTHING (to my knowledge) is gonna change that. All you can hope to do is create the optimal conditions to realize the full potential of the genetics of your stock.
 
GoldenGanja13

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Yes i ~ u do not stand alone on this experience. Every one tells me how they smoke less, get higher and stay high longer now that i am organic.
Jack Harer said:
ABSOLUTELY!!! Biologists and Botanists all agree that without the mycorrhizal fungi and bacteria in the root/soil interface a plant cannot achieve it's full potential. Organics are the only way to fly IMHO. Not to say that folks who don't grow organically don't produce stellar bud. I'm just basing this off my own observation and current scientific study. Organics do taste better, and the high does seem to last longer (I dunno, maybe?)
Click to expand...
 
poplars

poplars

Well-Known Member
GoldenGanja13 said:
Yes i ~ u do not stand alone on this experience. Every one tells me how they smoke less, get higher and stay high longer now that i am organic.
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shit bro my chemical weed from last year keeps me high for 2-3 hours, I can't wait to see how much longer it gets me high after this organic harvest ;)
 
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