Chemist77 315 watt CDL grow

Interesting, not enough detail in their brochures on their recommendations, not a lot different than what Indagro has done with their induction lights for a few years. But they are including both 660 and IR which is different. I do this already using separate units using 630/660 prior to lights-on and an IR 730nm initiator after lights out. Not sold on the supposed UV benefits, and these Elite Agro's already have quite a bit of UV(A) in their spectrum. After a few rounds of doing this (630/660/730nm) with the Elite Agro's though, I'm not sold on benefits with these Elite Agro bulbs. Although it's been difficult to gage I haven't seen any noticeable benefits in either yields or quality. My thinking is these bulbs already have spectrum in that range which is applied throughout the light cycle, and frankly, I think the 315w/3100k's did better on their own. They may have better benefits with other tech like single colour COBs (e.g. 3000k) where the spectrum range isn't as spread out and wide as the Elite Agro's.

Last I checked, UVB LEDs were still very expensive but a work in progress. UV LEDs are interesting though (especially UVC for drinking water sterilization and recirculating air in homes/buses/airplanes etc) and may have potential for experimentation in our gardens. UVA and UVB can stimulate "natural sunscreen" in plants. Like most harmful things, they tend to be beneficial in small amounts (hormesis).

That said I think that growers stand to gain by addressing lamp efficiency, canopy PPFD and canopy temperature. Tweaking spectrum is not something I see as a low hanging fruit and not something I recommend that we spend resources on at this point other than experimentally. Top shelf meds with mind blowing cannabinoid and terpene profiles are produced without UVA, UVB or IR so no worries there

From this 2012 article:
Beyond these applications, UV-B radiation is known to have beneficial health properties including the natural synthesis of vitamin D in humans who are exposed to sunlight. UV-B also accelerates the production of polyphenols in certain leafy vegetables such as red lettuce. Polyphenols are believed to have antioxidant qualities. “Generally these plants are grown in greenhouses today, which intentionally filter out the UV portion of the spectrum in order to maximize plant growth. Interestingly, we have evidence that when those plants are exposed to UV-B LEDs a short time before harvest, their polyphenol content is boosted without compromising plant mass,” explained Cary Eskow, global director of advanced LEDs and illumination for Avnet Electronics Marketing in Phoenix, AZ, which distributes UV LEDs. He continued “This is a novel method for increasing the appeal of some foods without using chemicals. Polyphenols also have received attention due to their purported anticarcinogenic, antiproliferative and antimutagenic properties.”

I have wondered if occasional doses of UVA/UVB in veg might affect the epigenetics of a keeper. From the perspective of a keeper clone, it spends many years in veg and then it suddenly spends a short 8 weeks in flowering. So it makes sense that the epigenetics activated by the plant's environment during veg could have a significant effect during flower, even though the conditions have changed in the flower space.

Have you tried supplementing UV, ttystick? What has you doubting it?

Supplementing UV with T5 is very affordable. . The tests showing benefits from UV on indoor MJ go back to the 80s.. it's been shown time and time again since then as well.
And it isn't just increased thc, resin and thcv. But also a more complete genetic expression. Making your herb more unique and expressing traits it
developed to protect itself from problems like fungus, disease, pests, etc..
The question that is still up in the air is if it is UVA, UVB, or both. There are people claiming all 3.
But if all you want is increased potency you don't need to run uv all through flower. Just 6 hrs per day for the final 2 wks has shown to have the same effect on potency as running all through veg and flower.

I spent 140 bucks to supplement UV over a 6x4 garden along with 2 600 hps. I'm on my first grow with it right now.. I'll have more to say on it after i run a couple harvests with it.. iI tried using some 10k metal halides but i didnt get an even spread of a good complete spectrum.. instead patches of high peaks spread through the garden. not ideal

The average daylight spectrum is made up of 3% UVA and .15% UVB.. I see a lot of people claiming it is all UVB.. I suspect it is more about UVA.

I am a bit bias towards recreating nature in the grow room though. I am trying to move towards being hospitable to my plants as opposed to trying to squeeze every bit of production I can out of them. So far, i'm liking the results. Spectrum is what I'm putting my efforts into right now. Wondering if these CDL lights are going to be a piece of the puizzle.

Im avoiding LED for now. They aren't buiilt to last. The technology is too expensive. AND, the lighting industry is doubling the price on the hydro industry. I heard it from the mouth of a manufacturer.. They would sell the same light to residential or commercial for half what they sell to a hydro store. Cost to make it makes no difference. Just a straight up double price if it is marketed toward gardeners. BULLSHIT!.

@HeartlandHank I did not say I didn't believe in UV supplementation. I said I didn't know how it would work from the height most people run their hoods.

I'm of quite the opposite opinion from yourself. I believe that COB LED is the revolution we've been waiting for- and that the DIY crowd can get in early for once!

ttystikk said:

@HeartlandHank I did not say I didn't believe in UV supplementation. I said I didn't know how it would work from the height most people run their hoods.

I'm of quite the opposite opinion from yourself. I believe that COB LED is the revolution we've been waiting for- and that the DIY crowd can get in early for once!

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I've heard a lot of LED DIY chatter lately.. Is it really that easy?

See that is different all together. And Im not saying LED is not good. Im just saying that I am too stubborn to buy a light that I know would be sold for 1/2 the price if not for the market im in. It is a matter of principal..

I was skeptical of LED.. then I had a chat with a manufacturer and became way more skeptical of the folks making these lights. DIY though.. hell yeah.

Its not the LED technology im skeptical of.. it is the people making and selling them.

We had a guy who works for an LED company come into our nursery buying products to do a grow test with his lights..

We had to explain to this guy why using a soilless mix alone, with no fertilizers added is not going to be a good way to test out his lights.

He was so stuck on the idea of not having any outside influence aside from the light that we couldnt explain to him that the plant needs food.. And this was the guy who was testing and selling their lights.

I won't mention the name.. but it is 1 of 3 led manufacturers based in Austin, TX..This company makes Horticulture lighting.. and the guy in charge of testing the lights has absolutely no clue of even the most basic botany.

1 of the other 2 companies was the guy who I met at a hydro store.. that guy was even more clueless..

The third in Austin.. is ilumitex.. i hear they make decent lights.

HeartIandhank said:

I've heard a lot of LED DIY chatter lately.. Is it really that easy?

See that is different all together. And Im not saying LED is not good. Im just saying that I am too stubborn to buy a light that I know would be sold for 1/2 the price if not for the market im in. It is a matter of principal..

I was skeptical of LED.. then I had a chat with a manufacturer and became way more skeptical of the folks making these lights. DIY though.. hell yeah.

Its not the LED technology im skeptical of.. it is the people making and selling them.

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The blurple panels are the ones to stay away from. Look for Vero 29 and Cree 3070 chips, and especially at the CXB3590, this one is becoming the workhorse of the DIY COB growth movement.

There's a whole slew of new LED companies coming out with the new stuff. Time will sort the good business models from the bad ones.

I think the problem is that these lighting companies hear that these growers are paying STUPID money for LED lights.. and they cant refuse but to get in on the thievery..

You know about Spectrum Kings? I hear good things..

I'm pretty capable in many ways.. But I see making my own LEDs taking a huge effort for myself.
I'm lurking for now..

HeartIandhank said:

I think the problem is that these lighting companies hear that these growers are paying STUPID money for LED lights.. and they cant refuse but to get in on the thievery..

You know about Spectrum Kings? I hear good things..

I'm pretty capable in many ways.. But I see making my own LEDs taking a huge effort for myself.
I'm lurking for now..

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Lurk in the LED forums. You'll find out quickly that spectrum king and mars LEDs are pretty universally reviled.

Thinking myself about DIYing more leds, I just looked at that spectrum king website, they say they use cree but they don't say what diodes, dubious, I don't like it based on that.


...haha just saw that message from ttystick

ttystikk said:

Lurk in the LED forums. You'll find out quickly that spectrum king and mars LEDs are pretty universally reviled.

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Typical.. it is all the rave and it blows

I love the results I get with HPS.. I just want to see if I can improve them. That is what I like about using T5 supplementing. There are an endless number of bulbs that I can cheaply tweak my spectrum with while still getting at least the killer results I have been getting with HPS since the 90s.

I don't wanna overhaul.. just tweak.. but i am pretty interested in these CDL, cmh, whatever you call 'em.

You see the guy on RIU with 50,000 sq ft of 315s? That is just crazy.. that was what got me looking into them more. If someone with experience went to the trouble and expense of filling 50k sq ft with 315w bulbs there HAS to be something to them..

The 860 might be more of what I'm looking for though.. I've done 250s, 400s, 600s and 1ks.. 600s are no question the bulb for me.. I can't see myself moving down.. though with no experience I can't say for sure if the 315s are really "moving down:".

I'm not interested in overhauls, either; I'm after revolution. IDGAF who's running what bulb anymore, I've seen the promised land and it's lit with COB LEDs!

boulderlamp.com cdl+led lamp icludes uv a, uv b and uv c from what i gather,, the info is on the site

HeartIandhank said:

Typical.. it is all the rave and it blows

I love the results I get with HPS.. I just want to see if I can improve them. That is what I like about using T5 supplementing. There are an endless number of bulbs that I can cheaply tweak my spectrum with while still getting at least the killer results I have been getting with HPS since the 90s.

I don't wanna overhaul.. just tweak.. but i am pretty interested in these CDL, cmh, whatever you call 'em.

You see the guy on RIU with 50,000 sq ft of 315s? That is just crazy.. that was what got me looking into them more. If someone with experience went to the trouble and expense of filling 50k sq ft with 315w bulbs there HAS to be something to them..

The 860 might be more of what I'm looking for though.. I've done 250s, 400s, 600s and 1ks.. 600s are no question the bulb for me.. I can't see myself moving down.. though with no experience I can't say for sure if the 315s are really "moving down:".

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i ran hps for many many years and both hps and mh,,, so far im pleased with the cdl or cmh and i feel that the cmh's will give me a higher gpw than hps or both in time.. pluss im saving on my electric bills already which is a major plus...

this and groerr 's thread helped me confirm an order I just put in for an lec. ive been looking around the led section for a few weeks now, and it seems like there is ANOTHER new cob on the horizon. I'm also weary of the producers of these new led's. had greengene had a unit in stock, Id have probably jumped on that, seeing how GG is putting on quite a show with the led's. haven't saw an led manufacturer using the 3590's(? @ttystikk ), and the area 51's seem to be driven to hard, few others are using the cxa's. others using the cxb's, nothing seems to be ready to go out the door. needed something somewhat quick, lec it was...

dangledo said:

this and groerr 's thread helped me confirm an order I just put in for an lec. ive been looking around the led section for a few weeks now, and it seems like there is ANOTHER new cob on the horizon. I'm also weary of the producers of these new led's. had greengene had a unit in stock, Id have probably jumped on that, seeing how GG is putting on quite a show with the led's. haven't saw an led manufacturer using the 3590's(? @ttystikk ), and the area 51's seem to be driven to hard, few others are using the cxa's. others using the cxb's, nothing seems to be ready to go out the door. needed something somewhat quick, lec it was...

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Hey @dangledo, nice to hear. you'll grow some nice flowers with these and they're less expensive per watt, with high efficiency. When I grabbed the first one it was much the same decision, I was considering switching to LED's but there was nothing readily available at the time, I didn't have the time or cycles to build my own, and I had a cycle that needed to be flipped to 12/12. So I ordered the LEC and a few days later I had it running. Bought a second one a couple of months later after seeing the results of the first one. Cheers.

GroErr said:

Hey @dangledo, nice to hear. you'll grow some nice flowers with these and they're less expensive per watt, with high efficiency. When I grabbed the first one it was much the same decision, I was considering switching to LED's but there was nothing readily available at the time, I didn't have the time or cycles to build my own, and I had a cycle that needed to be flipped to 12/12. So I ordered the LEC and a few days later I had it running. Bought a second one a couple of months later after seeing the results of the first one. Cheers.

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site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!

dangledo said:

site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!

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That sucks, as long as it's only a couple of weeks you'll be good. Always fun to try new tech and methods! I may finally get around to building some COBs I have on hand this winter. Thing is that these LEC's put out so much bud, I have little incentive to get cracking on my DIY COB project! lol

dangledo said:

site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!

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let us know how it goes please,,, im interested to see how others do with these lamps...if you order from boulderlamp.com and say the chemist recomended you, youl get a small discount..
500.00 per lamp, i thought was a bit pricey.. but now i say money well spent, 1st run covered cost of all 4 lamps, electric bills,nutes,water,etc,,,then a little money in my pocket...as a care giver i very rearly make a profit, but since the switch to cmh ive cut my electric bill in half...i must admit i sold a little bit under the table to cover my lamp costs...things are looking up,,,my patients say the cmh grown meds are better than ever...maybe growing legally doesnt have to mean breaking even any more?