China White: Shoot or snort?

canndo said:

this is kinda what I am talking about. It's nice, mcrandle, that you never felt the "need" to do anything else. Some of us did, some of us do and some of us are not all that weak minded, craving novel experiences, wishing to explore our own consciences with an eye toward improvements is hardly the behavior of the weak minded.

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Its good to keep an open mind.

Just not so "open" that your brains fall out of your head and splatter on the floor.

Just shoot the heroin already. At the point you are at it is just a matter of time. You already made that decision a long time ago. Just let us know how it goes so others can learn from this. Oh and BTW pics or it didn't happen.

Bigtacofarmer said:

I've been saying for years there need to be a free heroin warehouse in every town, next to the free crack and meth warehouses. Give it just a year or two and see if anyone wants to mess with it or not.

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I agree with this and I disagree with this too.

There needs to be centers for drug addicts to get their drugs and have a safe place to do them so they dont kill themselves but these centers shouldnt be a place to try new drugs. yeah sure, if someone is going to do something they are going to do it... the main reason we need centers like this is so we can stop pushing criminal charges on drug addicts and throwing them in jails and prisons and instead send them to rehab centers so they can get help to stay clean. that would save far more lives than anything else.

these centers would not decrease on increase in drug use, itd say the same. there may be an influx of 'patients' attending these centers for the first couple years as people find out about it and as they die off a new patient will replace them.

its just like a methadone clinic... same people for 15-20 years of their lives... they finally die and a new one replaces them and no matter how healthy you are theres only so much drug your body can take before it shuts itself down and you go into renal failure or some shit

Just a short story then I'm out of here.

Back in '97 I was a medic in So CA. We received a call for a man down. We arrive on scene to find this guy laying on the sidewalk, breathing 2 times a minute, and a soaked crotch. We start asking bystanders what the hell happened to this guy. Of course nobody said anything. Did our primary assessment while trying to stimulate this guy to wake up. We start bagging the guy (breathing for him) and got an IV started. He was on his way out. I look down to find a fuckin needle still stuck in his arm. We immediately administer some narcan to counteract the heroin and wait. Seemed like minutes, but in reality was more like 15-20 secs. The guy wakes up enough to say, "you guys fucked up my high". I'm thinking, "WTF you just stopped breathing". If I was there 4-5 mins later he probably would have been dead.

Unfortunately this was not an isolated incident. I've been on many of these calls.

Yes, this true story is to scare you and I hope it worked.

Please don't do it. Be safe.

HighLowGrow said:

Just a short story then I'm out of here.

Back in '97 I was a medic in So CA. We received a call for a man down. We arrive on scene to find this guy laying on the sidewalk, breathing 2 times a minute, and a soaked crotch. We start asking bystanders what the hell happened to this guy. Of course nobody said anything. Did our primary assessment while trying to stimulate this guy to wake up. We start bagging the guy (breathing for him) and got an IV started. He was on his way out. I look down to find a fuckin needle still stuck in his arm. We immediately administer some narcan to counteract the heroin and wait. Seemed like minutes, but in reality was more like 15-20 secs. The guy wakes up enough to say, "you guys fucked up my high". I'm thinking, "WTF you just stopped breathing". If I was there 4-5 mins later he probably would have been dead.

Unfortunately this was not an isolated incident. I've been on many of these calls.

Yes, this true story is to scare you and I hope it worked.

Please don't do it. Be safe.

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I literally just got a stomach ache bc of how sickening that is. Sucks there was no way for you to show him what would have happened

badmojo420 said:

I agree with this and I disagree with this too.

There needs to be centers for drug addicts to get their drugs and have a safe place to do them so they dont kill themselves but these centers shouldnt be a place to try new drugs. yeah sure, if someone is going to do something they are going to do it... the main reason we need centers like this is so we can stop pushing criminal charges on drug addicts and throwing them in jails and prisons and instead send them to rehab centers so they can get help to stay clean. that would save far more lives than anything else.

these centers would not decrease on increase in drug use, itd say the same. there may be an influx of 'patients' attending these centers for the first couple years as people find out about it and as they die off a new patient will replace them.

its just like a methadone clinic... same people for 15-20 years of their lives... they finally die and a new one replaces them and no matter how healthy you are theres only so much drug your body can take before it shuts itself down and you go into renal failure or some shit

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Oh..... I don't mean a clinic. I mean a warehouse with a pile of smack or such. It could all be free. Anyone over 18 can sign a waiver, just like renting skis. I imagine this would start of a terrible thing but after a while there would be an entire generation that understood what can happen if you should go to the free smack warehouse. Most of my "addict" friends say they could never leave.

dvs1038 said:

Ya wanna know sumptin for all u ppl that r sayin all this shit about herioine I just want you to understand just how programmed you all are and I'm not at all sayin herion is a good drug but ur programmed its kinda hard for me to find the research online here but on average just in the U.S how many yearly deaths r there that r alcohol related, maybe around 100,000 and I have found various statistics but from where I read I believe it was around 15,000. Not only that but did you know that a person goin thru suffering from alcohol withdraw is more likely to die than a person goin thru H withdraw. Again not saying one it better than the other, but each can be equally bad and which one do you think has ruined more lives the legal one or the illegal one? Just sumptin to think about.

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Here is the truth.

Many of us who inhabit this particular backwater of a website that assists and promotes the growing and use of a mind altering and almost universaly illegal substance, have dabbled in the opiates. We are not your average conservative citizen who has accepted as fact every picture of simpering heroin users hiding in the corner of an alley waiting for the sun to go down so they can rape your mom any more than we accept the portraits of pot smokers as wild eyed fiends.

This being the case, those of us who have dabbled in opiates, even if we have never touched heroin (I took some time off to study its effects and luckily I suppose, found heroin curiously unappealing), know of the profound tradeoffs that present themselves to a prospective opiate user.

I don't think you will find anyone here who heartily recommends the stronger opiates without reservation and without very stern cautions. Even though we generaly agree that each should make up their own mind after some amount of research and contemplation, we all knowlegeably agree that most of the time for most people using powerful opiates is unwise. The point is that few of us carry those old programs around with us and our negative recommendation is based upon personal experience.

It's amazing how stereotypes can last. Apparently everyone who takes heroin ends up living under a bridge robbing people to get one more until they die from OD or AIDS. It's been almost 30 years since NYC opened the first needle exchanges and lawyers and Wall St business men in suits showed up to get clean needles. I saw someone mention AIDS in this thread as though shooting up once would guarantee it. The fact is that many people shoot heroin and still lead productive lives, just like there are many alcoholics who are totally functional. You can buy sterile syringes OTC in 49 of 50 states. And the one state where you can't you can all but walk to a legal state because it's so small (Delaware). There is no reason to not use a fresh set of works every time. In fact IV drug users have some of the lowest rates of HIV infection now because they know better.

MrEDuck said:

It's amazing how stereotypes can last. Apparently everyone who takes heroin ends up living under a bridge robbing people to get one more until they die from OD or AIDS. It's been almost 30 years since NYC opened the first needle exchanges and lawyers and Wall St business men in suits showed up to get clean needles. I saw someone mention AIDS in this thread as though shooting up once would guarantee it. The fact is that many people shoot heroin and still lead productive lives, just like there are many alcoholics who are totally functional. You can buy sterile syringes OTC in 49 of 50 states. And the one state where you can't you can all but walk to a legal state because it's so small (Delaware). There is no reason to not use a fresh set of works every time. In fact IV drug users have some of the lowest rates of HIV infection now because they know better.

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It is amazing to say the least. I know or have known several people who maintain habits while having productive and family oriented lives, they are professionals who can afford their particular habit of choice. I also currently know a hand full of people who use pharmaceuticals as their form of weekend recreation - these people are somewhat of a strange breed however, In one case, the person will turn down 40's but will only take percocet, in another case he will not indulge in equivelents - even though in both cases the costs of their penchant are far more. I discovered that they have never researched their drug of choice - they encountered a particular pill and presume that that pill is the only pill that will recreate the feelings they initialy had.

I used to be badly addicted to meth. For some reason it dawned on me that
I couldn't get any more addicted or fucked than I already was, I shot it partly too because my nose hurt like a bastard.
long story short things were able to very quickly from bad to worse. Coke is such a short ride anyway it is like asking
for a world of hurt. But a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. Lalalalala
Please don't rob my house or have a heart attack. Bad idea imo

Alot of ignorance on this thread, makes me sad for humanity.

Injecting heroin isn't part of a line you cross, if you are doing the drug in the first place then you can say you crossed a line.
It's his chose, his decisions wheither he wants to shoot, snort and pop any drug of his choice.

Now lets all give him some proper information instead of bullshitting him around with our empty words.

I don't know much about injecting heroin but I do know a few links that can assist you.
http://apitacc.hubpages.com/hub/safer_injecting
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/351156-how-to-inject-heroin
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg23.htm


There yeah go! Be safe man.

Yeah, empty words, that's it. Choose death. Some of you guys are true Fools.
Have fun at your funeral, dummies.

There are risk's associated with drugs, I'm sure the OP is aware of them.
He is going to most likely inject it anyways, I rather give him more information about doing it safly then give him non at all.

If he dies while injecting I would rather sit here and know I did my best as someone who doesn't know him or could help stop his choice from occurring then just have said,
"NO DON'T DO IT!".. along with some name calling.

I'm not trying to judge or discriminate against heroin users. But out of all the close friends I know that have dabbled in it it goes quite poorly. I've got to friends that are homeless and bum just enough money to get a fix and do it again, for years. Two more of my friends have OD'd so many times the paramedics know them by name. Then there is another buddy, he did ok, quit fairly quicky, but not before his sister and brother in law got started. They got it real bad, he ended up blowing his head off and having his wife and kids find him, she shot coke and smack for the next few years completely ignoring her kids. Now I have met more users than that and some are not so bad off, but that is how it has worked for the people I know and love. When I was last in Eugene OR, there was a emergency OD system because there was so many OD's. I'm not sure about all the rich "wall street" users but I would guess if there supply ran out, either for money or other reasons they are not much better off than my buddy.

MrEDuck said:

I saw someone mention AIDS in this thread as though shooting up once would guarantee it.

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I mentioned it, and I said no such thing.

Of course shooting up once won't guaranteed that you get HIV, HCV, etc.

But shooting up "once" presents an EXTREMELY high likelihood of doing it more than once.

Doing it more than once presents a progressively higher likelihood of becoming addicted, then contracting any number of infectious diseases, including hepatitis B and C.

My point wasn't that you'll necessarily get AIDS if you shoot heroin or even that the absolute risk is super-high, just that the relative RISK of your doing so goes up by several orders of magnitude.

Short of having unprotected receptive anal sex, the second "best" way to get AIDS is to be an intravenous drug abuser.

The fact is that many people shoot heroin and still lead productive lives

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Of course there are people like that.

But if you look at heroin users as a group, they are not nearly so productive or healthy as non users. There is a large gap there in terms of income, longevity, etc.

There are a lot more heroin addicts living under the proverbial bridge then there are heroin addicts who are CEOs of major corporations.

You can buy sterile syringes OTC in 49 of 50 states.

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I think sterile syringes are available anywhere; its the NEEDLES that are restricted.

Whether this "should" be true is another thing, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe there there are still plenty of jurisdictions where it requires a medical prescription to legally obtain them. In some places they're available, but only if you're part of a sanctioned needle exchange program, and not every addict is willing to participate in such a program.

There is no reason to not use a fresh set of works every time. In fact IV drug users have some of the lowest rates of HIV infection now because they know better.

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On the second part of this statement, if you're saying HIV infection is less prevalent amongst IV drug users now, than say 10 years ago, that's true.

But even today, roughly 10% of new HIV infections are related to IV drug abuse, and as a cohort, IV drug users have far higher absolute HIV carriage rates than the general population.

On the first part, that's like saying since condoms or other birth control options are available at any drug store for only a few bucks, there is no reason for unwanted pregnancy.

My response is that as a group, IV drug users aren't exactly the most health-conscious or rigorous sorts, and "sometimes" they don't do what they "should" do.

You'd think in the 21st century, sharing of needles wouldn't happen anymore, yet it still does. J

ust because in theory shooting heroin "should" be perfectly safe, in practice addicts still share needles, use dirty ones, and engage in all sort of other risky behavior. Part of this, of course, isn't because of the heroin, per se. . .people who are willing to shoot heroin are also willing to engage in all sort of other risky behaviors irrespective of heroin use.

Bigtacofarmer said:

. I'm not sure about all the rich "wall street" users but I would guess if there supply ran out, either for money or other reasons they are not much better off than my buddy.

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Well, if you're rich, its a lot easier to be a heroin addict then if you're not.

If you have enough money you can pretty much guarantee yourself some kind of supply; if not actual heroin and clean needles for injection, then at least prescription opiates to keep yourself from getting withdrawals.

If you're a healthcare professional, then sure, you may have ready access to clean needles and narcotics, plus the knowledge to use them safely. Surgeons and anesthesiologists, in particular have high rates of substance abuse and addiction, as a combination of high-stress, long working hours, and ready access to drugs. They're not using heroin, per se, but rather fentanyl, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs.

But most of these professional types were professionals before they became addicts. Its not completely unprecedented, but you don't have too many people who are already addicted to narcotics going through medical school, then finishing up surgical training, rising through the ranks to get on the board of directors, etc. Again, for every addict like that, you've probably get ten living hand to mouth under the proverbial bridge. If your goal in life is to become a doctor, a CEO, hold elective office, work on Wall Street, etc, you're probably going to want to skip the "shoot heroin" phase of the journey!

The big problem is, in practice, most of use aren't cut out for those things anyway (heroin or not). So what if you're NOT rich? Its one thing to have unlimited access to clean needles and safe pharmaceutical grade opiates. But quite another to be on the street with no access to anything but Mexican black tar heroin and whatever needles you can scrounge.

Lastly, on rich addicts, for every Keith Richards, there is also a Janis Joplin. Being rich, famous, and/or successful might help ensure you have ready access to narcotics, but it doesn't make you immune to the potential negative effects.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jogro again.

Well he hasn't been on here in 3 days and I usually see him on here everyday.
Locked up or dead?

Or addicted.

Jogro said:

I mentioned it, and I said no such thing.

Of course shooting up once won't guaranteed that you get HIV, HCV, etc.

But shooting up "once" presents an EXTREMELY high likelihood of doing it more than once.

Doing it more than once presents a progressively higher likelihood of becoming addicted, then contracting any number of infectious diseases, including hepatitis B and C.

My point wasn't that you'll necessarily get AIDS if you shoot heroin or even that the absolute risk is super-high, just that the relative RISK of your doing so goes up by several orders of magnitude.

Short of having unprotected receptive anal sex, the second "best" way to get AIDS is to be an intravenous drug abuser.


Of course there are people like that.

But if you look at heroin users as a group, they are not nearly so productive or healthy as non users. There is a large gap there in terms of income, longevity, etc.

There are a lot more heroin addicts living under the proverbial bridge then there are heroin addicts who are CEOs of major corporations.


I think sterile syringes are available anywhere; its the NEEDLES that are restricted.

Whether this "should" be true is another thing, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe there there are still plenty of jurisdictions where it requires a medical prescription to legally obtain them. In some places they're available, but only if you're part of a sanctioned needle exchange program, and not every addict is willing to participate in such a program.


On the second part of this statement, if you're saying HIV infection is less prevalent amongst IV drug users now, than say 10 years ago, that's true.

But even today, roughly 10% of new HIV infections are related to IV drug abuse, and as a cohort, IV drug users have far higher absolute HIV carriage rates than the general population.

On the first part, that's like saying since condoms or other birth control options are available at any drug store for only a few bucks, there is no reason for unwanted pregnancy.

My response is that as a group, IV drug users aren't exactly the most health-conscious or rigorous sorts, and "sometimes" they don't do what they "should" do.

You'd think in the 21st century, sharing of needles wouldn't happen anymore, yet it still does. J

ust because in theory shooting heroin "should" be perfectly safe, in practice addicts still share needles, use dirty ones, and engage in all sort of other risky behavior. Part of this, of course, isn't because of the heroin, per se. . .people who are willing to shoot heroin are also willing to engage in all sort of other risky behaviors irrespective of heroin use.

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Some people will share needles, just like some people refuse to wear a helmet when rising a motorcycle.
Needles are legally sold over the counter in 49 states. There's exchanges by most areas with heavy use.
Places like InSite in Vancouver eliminate the sharing problem and they're prepared to handle ODs.
I'm not encouraging anyone to shoot up, but I want anyone considering it to have all the info they need to be safe. It's a dangerous activity but like many dangerous activities there are ways to make it less risky.