Chinese LED Grow – 75 (actual draw) Watts per plant veg/100W per plant flower

GroErr

Well-Known Member
I also do this type of stuff for a living :)
Ha, I'll bet there's a good percentage of folks in here in IT. Seems to go hand in hand with growing and creativity, my 2 hobbies/passions are doing this and writing music. Both keep me busy enough that I don't watch any TV other than movies here & there for some down time, not a bad thing ;)
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Just re-posting the pics from my update so you don't have to scroll up the thread, they are happy girls :)

All 3: Stretching nicely, good colour, nice and green, can't ask for more other than fast bud development!
All-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-1 (1280x803).jpg All-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-2 (1280x606).jpg All-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-3 (1280x727).jpg
PBK1: Tallest bitch, and shooting some nice side branches out, now grow some bud!
PBK1-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-1 (1159x1280).jpg PBK1-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-2 (1280x1059).jpg
PBK2: Still the smallest but has lots of off-shoots under the canopy and developing bud areas
PBK2-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-1 (1280x1145).jpg PBK2-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-2 (1280x852).jpg
JTR2: My fav sativa-dom bitch, she'll produce nicely, tons of bud areas coming in, loved the FIM's :)
JTR2-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-1 (861x1280).jpg JTR2-Day66-Veg-Day7-Flwr-2 (1280x853).jpg

8-9 weeks to go :(
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hey everyone, Day 73 from seed, Day 14 flowering. Some happy looking ladies again this week.

They continue to stretch/grow well, filled in nicely, JTR2 sativa is a nice ball now with lots of shoots developing bud areas. Expecting a bit of a slow down this week as they settle into flowering.
The lone sat, JTR2 is already throwing out small flowers.
The PBK's are stretching great, JTR1 is now 24" tall, but both are slower at bud development, some flower areas developing but not fully formed flowers yet.

All are really healthy for this stage, setup nicely for flowering.
Lights are 16-18" now
Temps: 76-78F lights on, 63-65F lights off
Humidity: 45-48 lights on, 55-58 lights off

Tomorrow they'll get a good water-only round, then 1/2 grow, 1/2 bloom feed later this week, will be watching them closely to tell me when and what they need over the next week as they shift towards full on flowering. They're drying up every 2-3 days and feeding well

Expecting to see some nice bud development by next week's update, particularly on JTR2, she's going to produce nicely, all the FIM's are shooting out nice colas and forming lots of potential buds :)

Group shots:
All-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-1 (656x1280).jpg All-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-2 (722x1280).jpg All-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-3 (1280x602).jpg

PBK1:
PBK1-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-1 (1213x1280).jpg PBK1-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-3 (1280x1113).jpg
PBK2:
PBK2-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-1 (1217x1280).jpg PBK2-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-3 (1280x852).jpg
JTR2:
JTR2-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-1 (1117x1280).jpg JTR2-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-2 (1280x852).jpg JTR2-Day73-Veg-Day14-Flwr-3 (1280x852).jpg
 

oregongrowpros

Well-Known Member
Hi.

I was looking at getting this exact light for vegging. Where can I get one at that price? Thanks!
They raised the price since I bought it, its a great light, I use it for seedlings now and since then I bought a 500w led for my main cab.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Rollitup mobile app
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hi.

I was looking at getting this exact light for vegging. Where can I get one at that price? Thanks!
Yeah, they've raised prices up somewhat since I bought them, they sell a lot of them. I also bought some on auction, they do that at year end. They're not bad for the price though, even at today's pricing. Definitely staying in my arsenal for clones, seeds, and vegging. Right now the plants are responding well to flowering, they may surprise me yet in flowering.
2 places that carry them at similar pricing are easyhydro on e-Bay and top led directly, prices are pretty close...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
While it seems like they do a great job, VISUALLY, what's going on INSIDE the plant?

The genetics are being altered as a result of an incomplete spectrum

You might not notice this for several generations, but then BAM shit goes bad.

This is not unlike animals or people who are born with predispositions to their parents, and/or grand parents illnesses

Healthy mj needs WHITE light to be healthy and produce healthy seeds

Now, supplementing WHITE light with a bit more 450 or 630-660 is ok, because the plant is getting what it needs, but NOT the other way around.

Come by my thread to see how fast and how healthy my not even one month old from cotyledons are doing
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Hey Pet, not up on the science of genetic degradation. In my case, it's not really something I'd be concerned about. Other than the odd 1st/2nd generation cloning, I prefer starting with seeds and changing up strains.

I have done some reading (including your posts) on white light and will be using it going forward for side lighting/enhancement of the LED panels. I've already started using some 9W, 24" 6500k LED tubes I had purchased back in December, built 2 side panels with 4 tubes each, total 72W actual draw in a 20" H x 24" W side panel config. Added them about 10 days ago or so to my veg cabinet for the next round coming up (3-4 weeks they'll be flipped to flower).

I must say, the JTR sat in particular is loving the side lighting. It's recovered well from being stuck in a small tent on hold for a few weeks while I finished my flower room. Not only has it recovered but with the side lighting it's now flourishing and shooting out all kinds of off-shoots, spreading and filling the 7Gal pot I have it in. By the time I flower that one it's going to be a monster bush, should be a good one :)

I also have some T8/28W, 3000k 48" LED Tubes in the works for the flower room. Initially, they'll be 48" x 12", 2x tubes per side along the side walls in my flower room. If they perform well, I'll allow for an additional 2 tubes per side which should help in flowering and getting light down to the popcorn.

This run I'm running just the off-the-shelf LG panels to see how they perform out of the box. It's killing me not to use/add more light but I want a fair assessment of the lights as-is for those considering these panels.

Here's the latest pic I have of the side-light LED Tubes in my veg cabinet. The JTR Twins I have in the 7Gal Geopot (center) have exploded since putting in those tubes, the smaller PBK's flanking it are also filling in nicely under the canopy, they're just taking longer to recover and trying to get them out of a cal/mag deficiency they seem to go through at around week 4-5 (weird strain).

Cheers
JTR-Twins white light pic
JTR-Twins-Day73-1.JPG
JTR-Twins Cam shot, LED tubes in action
LED-72W-6500k-Tube-Panels-VegCab.jpeg
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Cool.
What I am trying to convey is use WHITE and supplement with red, not the other way around


So, do not buy chinese 'multi-spectrum chip led lights. IF the panels are made up of individual diodes but white is the dominant, then fine, although, they probably won't last long enough to recover the money spent BECAUSE they tend to use cheap monochrome diodes + cheap mounting methods (huge efficiency losses) + cheap drivers + cheap lenses +... I think you get the idea
 

spazatak

Well-Known Member
While it seems like they do a great job, VISUALLY, what's going on INSIDE the plant?

The genetics are being altered as a result of an incomplete spectrum

You might not notice this for several generations, but then BAM shit goes bad.

This is not unlike animals or people who are born with predispositions to their parents, and/or grand parents illnesses

Healthy mj needs WHITE light to be healthy and produce healthy seeds

Now, supplementing WHITE light with a bit more 450 or 630-660 is ok, because the plant is getting what it needs, but NOT the other way around.

Come by my thread to see how fast and how healthy my not even one month old from cotyledons are doing
Do you have any science to back up that these plant will change due to the spectrum they are receiving?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Cool.
What I am trying to convey is use WHITE and supplement with red, not the other way around


So, do not buy chinese 'multi-spectrum chip led lights. IF the panels are made up of individual diodes but white is the dominant, then fine, although, they probably won't last long enough to recover the money spent BECAUSE they tend to use cheap monochrome diodes + cheap mounting methods (huge efficiency losses) + cheap drivers + cheap lenses +... I think you get the idea
Thanks Pet, I do get what you've been preaching and it seems to go along with what A51 has done and continues to do with their all-white panels. But, until these either fail or stop producing, I'm not going to throw them out. In the meantime I'll supplement them with white side lighting.

I have 5 of these panels, and so far they've served me well, these 3 plants I'm running now (never mind the 6 oz I have already harvested off them in the last 9 months) will have them more than paid back my initial investment. I expect they'll produce a lot of plants for a year or two.

As always though, I'll get bored, latch on to some newer technology, or even (cough, cough) try a DIY if I get bored enough, likely take one or two of these panels at some point and retrofit them with some high end whites, make myself an A51 knock off ;)
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Do you have any science to back up that these plant will change due to the spectrum they are receiving?
Well, light is energy. Nutrients are energy. If you feed a plant just NPK, and neglect the micro nutrients you will grow a plant, but it will not reach it's potential.

Much like organically grown foods vs commercially grown, where commercial growers do not use soil amendments.

Eat an organic vegetable then the commercially grown equivalent. Most people can taste the difference, but it's more than taste, it's nutritional value.

An incomplete spectrum does the same thing.

Sorry if that's not scientific enough, but the information is out there
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
GroErr, not suggesting you dump them, as they will be fine as supplements, when combined with ~ 50% white lights, whether those lights are t5/t8, hps, led, or induction

What I'm trying to do is, prevent others from buying them as a single light source

Peace out
 

spazatak

Well-Known Member
Well, light is energy. Nutrients are energy. If you feed a plant just NPK, and neglect the micro nutrients you will grow a plant, but it will not reach it's potential.

Much like organically grown foods vs commercially grown, where commercial growers do not use soil amendments.

Eat an organic vegetable then the commercially grown equivalent. Most people can taste the difference, but it's more than taste, it's nutritional value.

An incomplete spectrum does the same thing.

Sorry if that's not scientific enough, but the information is out there
What you have just stated about organic foods v commercially grown foods is not scientific based evidence it is opinion. For example

ABC news:

In 2009, a major UK study found no significant differences in nutrients between organic and non-organic plant or animal foods. The review, which was published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, was based on an analysis of 55 studies from an original search of over 50,000. It compared organic and non-organic foods, focusing on 13 of the most commonly-reported nutrient categories.
Report author, Dr Alan Dangour, from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said: "A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance."

You have made a statement regarding light spectrum and how the plant will "bam shit goes bad" and were asked simply for some scientific evidence to base that statement off... is this personal opinion or have you actual evidence for your statement?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Well, light is energy. Nutrients are energy. If you feed a plant just NPK, and neglect the micro nutrients you will grow a plant, but it will not reach it's potential.

Much like organically grown foods vs commercially grown, where commercial growers do not use soil amendments.

Eat an organic vegetable then the commercially grown equivalent. Most people can taste the difference, but it's more than taste, it's nutritional value.

An incomplete spectrum does the same thing.

Sorry if that's not scientific enough, but the information is out there
Interesting theory. Kind of goes along the same line of thinking I have on growing. Every major factor contributes and amounts to the whole, e.g. light, water, air, nutes, temp, humidity etc. Mess up any one element too badly and the grow will suffer. But balance them all and you'll get a decent grow, balance them well and you'll get a great grow. So if this (white light) factor has some science/merit, it could be that edge. At the same time, if all other factors are managed well, you could argue that (small factors) in light efficiency may not make a big enough difference.

BTW: Not sure of you've seen one of these panels first hand. They have a mix of red, blue, white, and green. I've read that green is a spectrum/light that goes right through the leaves, perhaps they use it for deeper penetration?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
GroErr, not suggesting you dump them, as they will be fine as supplements, when combined with ~ 50% white lights, whether those lights are t5/t8, hps, led, or induction

What I'm trying to do is, prevent others from buying them as a single light source

Peace out
I get it, makes sense where you're coming from. But, I always go back to the overriding reason I wanted to document this run. To see what these relatively low cost, off-the-shelf lights, can do if grown in a stable environment, using more or less standard growing methods.

Not all growers here can or want to afford top tier lights. Some want to switch/try LED and be rid of CFL's or dealing with heat issues, some are new, or running small cabs and want LED's for the low heat dissipation. They don't care about 100% efficiency, they just want to grow some personal smoke and not break the bank doing it. Even less want to bother with DIY. In fact, the more time I spend on here, the more I sense is that the majority of particularly hobby/personal growers, tend to buy low-end, chinese lights. And we all know there are hundreds of Chinese LED companies out there more than willing to take our money and run, shipping out crap (as i've experienced first-hand), not honouring warranties, the stories abound...

So, with that in mind and since I can afford to do it (if I don't get a good run, my son will always supply me at cost :) ), I've spent some time and money sifting through a few lights, and found one of 100's of brands out there that for the price, perform acceptably. Again, for the reasons I've stated many times: They will remain in my garden for, clone, seed, veg. Flowering is yet to be determined in a few weeks for all to see.

Of course I'll move on, change brands, use supplemental lighting, try new shit, (I need to continuously feed my Attention Deficit Disorder). But if these lights can flower acceptably, hopefully this will help some of the small/hobby growers or those looking to get their feet wet with LED's.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member

GroErr

Well-Known Member
spaz, if you believe what MSM tells you, well...

OK, one last thing, as I've said all I can to help here...

china also makes white lights, but for some crazy reason they don't sell them under horticulture

Since they are ONE color (includes all colors) they are more efficient than mixing a bunch of desperate spectrums on a chip AND should last considerably longer


http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-Free-shipping-led-high-bay-light-CE-Rohs-300w-led-high-bay-industrial-light-85/1532720999.html
Good find Pet, I may try a couple if they have multiple spectrum/colours (I'd like to try them as additional/enhancements in flowering), a couple would do nicely for a single plant in a side by side style test... I must say though Ali seems like a free for all, the wild west of ecommerce, definitely a buyer beware scenario. I did buy my LED Tubes through there and other than delivery time it was Ok...
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Good find Pet, I may try a couple if they have multiple spectrum/colours (I'd like to try them as additional/enhancements in flowering), a couple would do nicely for a single plant in a side by side style test... I must say though Ali seems like a free for all, the wild west of ecommerce, definitely a buyer beware scenario. I did buy my LED Tubes through there and other than delivery time it was Ok...
Sorry, to clarify, not multiple spectrum colours in one light, meant if they have like 2700 or 3000k colours for flowering purposes...
 
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