Christianity has been debunked once and for all

jaiddragon said:

when i believed, i thought that god must love us as a whole, not neccesarily (holy shit i spelled it right first try! yay me) as individuals, kinda like an ant farm...

it really is a lonely feeling, coming to understand that there is no entity watching over you, or whatever dogma you were taught to believe...

no wonder people fight so hard to hold on to the delusion...

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The "God as ant farmer" idea is far more frightening that being alone (to me at least).

email468 said:

Unless I'm mistaken, you obviously have very deep-seated religious beliefs that are Christian in flavor. I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but I am curious about your username: ZenMaster. I'm wondering how you can marry being a ZenMaster with being a devout Christian?

None of my damn business is, of course, an acceptable answer but you seem willing to share your other beliefs so I figured I'd ask.

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Well your right, Zen is the enlightenment that Buddhism strives for and they typically go against all forms of religion. I respect and understand their quest to expand their understanding of the universe and matter that connects everyone, however I believe I am more enlightened than them and recognize that our universe has an architect and God is involved in our lives. Thus I have become the ZenMaster . Slightly conceded but I think a marriage of Zen and God is a great duo.

Yondaime said:

ZenMasteR: I think you missed the toke and talk section, this is the spirituality, sexuality and philosophy section

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Okay..?

email468 said:

The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).

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Well first off, God is perfect, however we are not, we are given free will. You have to think about it, what would be the point? We are born into a perfect world with no trials to test our character or anything, we simply exist and die? Sure God could have created that world, but what would be the point, to have no free will? I believe this world is merely a test, a stage to see how well we performed in this rat race. But the answer will always be the same, we could have done better. Why God needed Jesus? Because we are human, we have to have something. We are a very tribal civilization that revolve around idols and symbols, and we are united under the cross.

email468 said:

I have heard that God is all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful. To which I call bullshit. If he were all-loving there is no possible way He'd allow the horrible things that happen in this world. And if he is all-loving then He either doesn't know about it (so He isn't all-knowing) or can't do anything about it (so He isn't all-powerful).

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Why do you blame it on God? Instead pray for those who lack God and are full of greed. In the end, they will be judged.

email468 said:

Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?

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I'm not sure if he is omniscient, I think he has so much wisdom, that he basically seems omniscient. In the garden of eden, he had Adam name all the animals in the kingdom, it was kind of entertaining to God, but he didn't know what Adam would choose to call, say a lion. And I do think he was surprised at the amount of evil we were capable of.

Yondaime said:

Christianity debunked? Thats a huge joke

Yet another atheist, angry at religion. And he thinks he is earth's scientific representative and historian...

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Nice job of quoting out of context to meet your own agenda. Nice job of seeing only what you want to see.

daydrops said:

debunked? please. the writer is obviously ignorant of christianity and probably every other religion. this could logically be called a rant about mysticism in general. but none of the points that he raised have any type of validity to a Christian

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No validity? The point that if the Christian god and his son were who the Christians say they were, there should be certain things that we should see when we look back to the time of Jesus, well, that's not a valid point, huh?

See only what you want to see, my friend.

email468 said:

The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).

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There is an answer to that, which makes the idea of him sending his son quite ingenious and also necessary to accomplish his goals.. It was the reason why I found the idea of Jesus credible and the reason I was able to understand why it has to be that way when I was not so convinced and rebellious of the idea of God having a son that was actually him at the same time..

email468 said:

Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?

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Ever seen the movie - The Butterfly Effect ?

as for trishmybiscuits, I may see only what I want to see, but you my friend are blind.

Yondaime said:

There is an answer to that, which makes the idea of him sending his son quite ingenious and also necessary to accomplish his goals.. It was the reason why I found the idea of Jesus credible and the reason I was able to understand why it has to be that way when I was not so convinced and rebellious of the idea of God having a son that was actually him at the same time..

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If there is an answer.... I am all ears.

Yondaime said:

Ever seen the movie - The Butterfly Effect ?

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Again - we're talking about God here - He IS the butterfly effect and He can control and change anything including the butterfly effect. If God is beholden to nature's laws then He ain't any more or better than us humans or any other of nature's creatures, right? otherwise He'd just be another being and not God.

ZenMaster said:

Well your right, Zen is the enlightenment that Buddhism strives for and they typically go against all forms of religion. I respect and understand their quest to expand their understanding of the universe and matter that connects everyone, however I believe I am more enlightened than them and recognize that our universe has an architect and God is involved in our lives. Thus I have become the ZenMaster . Slightly conceded but I think a marriage of Zen and God is a great duo.



Okay..?



Well first off, God is perfect, however we are not, we are given free will. You have to think about it, what would be the point? We are born into a perfect world with no trials to test our character or anything, we simply exist and die? Sure God could have created that world, but what would be the point, to have no free will? I believe this world is merely a test, a stage to see how well we performed in this rat race. But the answer will always be the same, we could have done better. Why God needed Jesus? Because we are human, we have to have something. We are a very tribal civilization that revolve around idols and symbols, and we are united under the cross.




Why do you blame it on God? Instead pray for those who lack God and are full of greed. In the end, they will be judged.




I'm not sure if he is omniscient, I think he has so much wisdom, that he basically seems omniscient. In the garden of eden, he had Adam name all the animals in the kingdom, it was kind of entertaining to God, but he didn't know what Adam would choose to call, say a lion. And I do think he was surprised at the amount of evil we were capable of.

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Well ZenMaster you certainly have an interesting take on things and I appreciate your sharing them. I guess interpreting and modifying the biblical God so much as to be unrecognizable is one way of being spiritual and then you can always say - well most Christians believe that - but i am not one of those kind of Christians - i am more enlightened than them.

Have you read both the old and new testaments? I recommend reading the bible straight through. I recommend this because we need more atheists.

Are you guys still arguing over jesus?

After watching this movie I have been very conflicted with my idea's on my religion..

start watching after 9mins
Zeitgeist - The Movie

If you are a devout religious person I would love to hear your notions on the link that i just gave. Please explain to me how I can accept religion after watching it... Which religion is the 'right' one? I guess I'm just simple minded and blind.

edit- actually start watching at 14mins if you dont want to be offended....

40acres said:

Are you guys still arguing over jesus?

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It does hone your thinking and reasoning skills to debate over the internet. Some of the debate devolves into arguing but for the most part it remains civil.

Now threatening or being a tough guy on the internet....

email468 said:

Now threatening or being a tough guy on the internet....

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You sure about that? lmao, I think lots of ppl try and be 'tough' guys on here.. Like this guy email for an example

We TaRdED said:

You sure about that? lmao, I think lots of ppl try and be 'tough' guys on here.. Like this guy email for an example

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are you talking to me? i don't see anybody else here so you must be talking to me!

email468 said:

are you talking to me? i don't see anybody else here so you must be talking to me!

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Ohhh shyt.... This guy isn't playing?

*pulls a couple of emails crazy spikes protruding from the back of his head and stabs him in both of his eyes*......... *than runs like crazy*

Ok ok..... time to get back on subject... hehe

I would honestly like for a devout religious person to tell me which religion is the 'right' one after watching Zeitgeist - The Movie (start @ 14 mins).... thanks

We TaRdED said:

Ohhh shyt.... This guy isn't playing?

*pulls a couple of emails crazy spikes protruding from the back of his head and stabs him in both of his eyes*......... *than runs like crazy*

Ok ok..... time to get back on subject... hehe

I would honestly like for a devout religious person to tell me which religion is the 'right' one after watching Zeitgeist - The Movie (start @ 14 mins).... thanks

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I don't have to watch that to agree. In fact, in the Book of Revelations, with the second coming, he looks to every church and denounces them, because they each had their faults and did not live to the God's standards.

ZenMaster said:

I don't have to watch that to agree. In fact, in the Book of Revelations, with the second coming, he looks to every church and denounces them, because they each had their faults and did not live to the God's standards.

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Your missing out if you don't watch it. Or maybe not, idk if you could handle it

So whats your religion? I'm guessing Christian, but there are many branches of Christianity, so which one is yours/'right'? heh

We TaRdED said:

Your missing out if you don't watch it. Or maybe not, idk if you could handle it

So whats your religion? I'm guessing Christian, but there are many branches of Christianity, so which one is yours/'right'? heh

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Thats the thing, I think they all have their faults, so I guess by default, non-denominational. I think at the core, church is a good thing, it creates a good community and helps better understand The Bible. However when they try to impose on people their interpretation of The Bible and they're own take on how you should live, is where I disagree. I'm freelance.

email468 said:

Again - we're talking about God here - He IS the butterfly effect and He can control and change anything including the butterfly effect. If God is beholden to nature's laws then He ain't any more or better than us humans or any other of nature's creatures, right? otherwise He'd just be another being and not God.

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Not speaking as a Christian but speaking strictly in religious doctrine - God exists outside of space and time, yes he can control and change anything he desires but for in our environment the butterfly effect still takes place, if God does have a plan for humanity, and if the end of time is the harvest then everything that happens in humanity's lifespan is to fulfill the ultimate goal which has not been revealed to us.

If we assume that as God's agenda (a plan for our existence and a culmination of that plan in the end) then everything good and everything evil in life is for his purpose, and since a perfect God is not going to do all of this in vain then everything including the great flood happened for a reason, for our benefit and all those that were effected by the story or the flood itself and is part of God's plan from the beginning.

Lets not forget that the character that the term God entails in the Christian perspective is the creator of the universe, the greatest strategist and the most intelligent being there is in existence, he did after all create all the phenomenons and ingenious creations and systems of the world and of the universe and everything works together perfectly - so we have to acknowledge that there is a bigger picture to our purpose on this earth.

If you are not convinced of this idea of God, I can give you quotes all day to support my claim.

Colossians 1:16 - King James Version said:

For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.

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All things were created by Him, and for him. This includes evil, he plans and calculates everything up to the finest detail including the ripple effects of evil and even the flood. And he would have known that Adam and Eve were going to eat of the forbidden fruit, there would be no point to creating them if they didn't..

As for your answer, its quite long and I don't know if I want to invest that much time in typing it, since you will probably write it off before you even read it- leaving time spent in vain :/