Chuckers paradise......

colocowboy

colocowboy

Well-Known Member
There are some degeneration issues that start to pop up in successively selfed ibls.
I think one of the primary issues is your not really seeing the result of purposeful breeding in many cases, currently it’s more mass experimentation with very little testing or intention.
Bodhi is doing limited line work with the intention of pinning down true breeding traits, as are limited others but why would the majority follow suit. For exactly the reasons y’all outline in the last few posts, generally takes a long time and most don’t even appreciate it because everyone wants hype. No time for any real breeding (intention) other than intending to get that hype cut crossed and out. In time this will flush out into niches and smooth out.
There is definitely purpose for feminized seed and discounting is just being naive, the issues that come up from untested breeding are really the same irrespective of the chosen “male”.
 
Budderton

Budderton

Well-Known Member
Observe & Report said:
If you self pollinate an S1, wouldn't the resulting seeds be S2? I'm pretty sure the "S" distinction is something stoners made up, but why not increase the number with each generation as in filial crosses?
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They do. Breeder Steve from spice of life seeds talks about taking cuts to S6-7 as part of his experiment to make a sterile feminised seed.
He also discusses how he would take a cultivar he found to S3, cross it to a regular male, and that would be his reg seed release just labeled this X that, with no mention of the "s ing"
colocowboy said:
There are some degeneration issues that start to pop up in successively selfed ibls.
I think one of the primary issues is your not really seeing the result of purposeful breeding in many cases, currently it’s more mass experimentation with very little testing or intention.
Bodhi is doing limited line work with the intention of pinning down true breeding traits, as are limited others but why would the majority follow suit. For exactly the reasons y’all outline in the last few posts, generally takes a long time and most don’t even appreciate it because everyone wants hype. No time for any real breeding (intention) other than intending to get that hype cut crossed and out. In time this will flush out into niches and smooth out.
There is definitely purpose for feminized seed and discounting is just being naive, the issues that come up from untested breeding are really the same irrespective of the chosen “male”.
Click to expand...
You are 100% correct. Good reg breeding ( or fem breeding for that matter) is a long, tedious process that is kinda boring and unglamorous. Not to mention that most growers don't care if a batch of seeds is homozygous or not, it just has to make a good IG post.
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
by taking the male evolution out of the process you are reducing the future male genepool. we may never know what could have been had we not selfied all this shit. like the salmon that cannot find their way back to their homestream. That's not gmo either but it's a problem nonetheless. lol?
 
Observe & Report

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
raggyb said:
by taking the male evolution out of the process you are reducing the future male genepool. we may never know what could have been had we not selfied all this shit. like the salmon that cannot find their way back to their homestream. That's not gmo either but it's a problem nonetheless. lol?
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Females have all the genes too and can be / are outcrossed just like with males/females. Selfed beans are a tiny fraction of available fem gear. Is there some specific issue with female-only breeding that you are concerned about or is it just a general bad feeling you have about not using males?
 
tardis

tardis

Well-Known Member
Observe & Report said:
Females have all the genes too and can be / are outcrossed just like with males/females. Selfed beans are a tiny fraction of available fem gear. Is there some specific issue with female-only breeding that you are concerned about or is it just a general bad feeling you have about not using males?
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I agree with him and hear what he's saying. While femenized, autoflower, selfed seeds are becoming more and more popular it puts at risk the purity of the real strains. Does breeding with females only for several generations have any long term health effects on the plant? We don't know, we haven't hit those generations yet and tested them properly, its all new and flooding the market. While you are right we don't know and females could have everything needed 6-12 generations later in the end it puts risk of inferior future genetics.
 
Observe & Report

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
tardis said:
I agree with him and hear what he's saying. While femenized, autoflower, selfed seeds are becoming more and more popular it puts at risk the purity of the real strains. Does breeding with females only for several generations have any long term health effects on the plant? We don't know, we haven't hit those generations yet and tested them properly, its all new and flooding the market. While you are right we don't know and females could have everything needed 6-12 generations later in the end it puts risk of inferior future genetics.
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What makes you think it "puts at risk the purity of the real strains" ? Anything specific? All I hear is some general distrust for nonspecific reasons, like purity. Feminized seeds are identical to regular female seeds. Can you identify any difference at all? Is there any way, even in principle, to tell if a female seed has a male parent or not?

It's not new! Fems have been commercially available since the early 90's at the latest. Easily 6-12 generations of fem chucking since GSC and that's barely more than ten years. ...and what about Rodelized fems? It's the exact same thing! Do you have a problem with those, other than selecting for females that like to spew pollen on their own? Females have been producing pollen and feminized offspring for hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions, before humans started cultivating Cannabis. It is a natural process that people have learned to manipulate for their benefit.
 
thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
tardis said:
I agree with him and hear what he's saying. While femenized, autoflower, selfed seeds are becoming more and more popular it puts at risk the purity of the real strains. Does breeding with females only for several generations have any long term health effects on the plant? We don't know, we haven't hit those generations yet and tested them properly, its all new and flooding the market. While you are right we don't know and females could have everything needed 6-12 generations later in the end it puts risk of inferior future genetics.
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I bought my first seeds in 2002 from Dutch passion and they were feminized. Thats at least 19 generations worth there.
 
thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
Observe & Report said:
What makes you think it "puts at risk the purity of the real strains" ? Anything specific? All I hear is some general distrust for nonspecific reasons, like purity. Feminized seeds are identical to regular female seeds. Can you identify any difference at all? Is there any way, even in principle, to tell if a female seed has a male parent or not?

It's not new! Fems have been commercially available since the early 90's at the latest. Easily 6-12 generations of fem chucking since GSC and that's barely more than ten years. ...and what about Rodelized fems? It's the exact same thing! Do you have a problem with those, other than selecting for females that like to spew pollen on their own? Females have been producing pollen and feminized offspring for hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions, before humans started cultivating Cannabis. It is a natural process that people have learned to manipulate for their benefit.
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Exactly

Now if people were splicing dna then I guess that'd bring in doubts, lol.
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
Observe & Report said:
Females have all the genes too and can be / are outcrossed just like with males/females. Selfed beans are a tiny fraction of available fem gear. Is there some specific issue with female-only breeding that you are concerned about or is it just a general bad feeling you have about not using males?
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yeah cool ideas man. I don't really care myself, I grew fems and won't mind doing it again. I just think on super long scale it could be something lopsided. Seems like the easiest explanation to me, so just a feeling. :peace:
 
Alter Jean

Alter Jean

Well-Known Member
Budderton said:
It's refreshing to see someone who's working with stuff outside of the norm. May I ask what the genetics involved in this one are? Sorry, I'm too out of the loop to get your reference.
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Much appreciated. The reference is just a random song lyric that was fitting this morning.
You're not out of the loop I'm just a little bit cryptik.

Here trying a few things out, may or may not work for us.
Sorry for the late response. The website still isn't working all that well I am in posting jail lmao..

The flowers there is Michoacan x Guererro. Someone here in a another thread had stated that it doesn't remind them of Michoacan they used to grow or something along those lines. To each there own. I also have an Oaxacan here but that one isn't subject to any pollenations. One thing to understand about the Mex lines is Guerrero, Michoacán and Oaxaca... They are next to each other and share borders. So your going to get a lot of similarity in some lines and others if kept by a family or small town then it can stay more original or if the line was kept by growers over generations like the Michoacán green purple brown. I see this one here leaning the Michoacán side. I mentioned earlier in getting some smells at first with the stem rubs but the aroma gets more complex as time goes on. (sounds generic but it's the truth). Now when I squish the flowers I get a spice, followed by a nice smooth creamy citrus smell. Not lemon like the Oax. Maybe it's a pine rather than a citrus.. I'll have to wait for the spliffs and truly let you know.

Plant more seed

:blsmoke:
 
Budderton

Budderton

Well-Known Member
Alter Jean said:
Much appreciated. The reference is just a random song lyric that was fitting this morning.
You're not out of the loop I'm just a little bit cryptik.

Here trying a few things out, may or may not work for us.
Sorry for the late response. The website still isn't working all that well I am in posting jail lmao..

The flowers there is Michoacan x Guererro. Someone here in a another thread had stated that it doesn't remind them of Michoacan they used to grow or something along those lines. To each there own. I also have an Oaxacan here but that one isn't subject to any pollenations. One thing to understand about the Mex lines is Guerrero, Michoacán and Oaxaca... They are next to each other and share borders. So your going to get a lot of similarity in some lines and others if kept by a family or small town then it can stay more original or if the line was kept by growers over generations like the Michoacán green purple brown. I see this one here leaning the Michoacán side. I mentioned earlier in getting some smells at first with the stem rubs but the aroma gets more complex as time goes on. (sounds generic but it's the truth). Now when I squish the flowers I get a spice, followed by a nice smooth creamy citrus smell. Not lemon like the Oax. Maybe it's a pine rather than a citrus.. I'll have to wait for the spliffs and truly let you know.

Plant more seed

:blsmoke:
Click to expand...
Very interesting. Thank you for the details, I love this! And I know you do this for you, but thanks for keeping this gene pool going. We really need diversity like this.
 
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