City ordinance = Inspections?!

Rrog said:

Jesus H, MrBungle... That is the most ghastly avatar I have ever seen. I am now applying liberal THC in hopes of deactivating that memory cell that hosts this awful image.

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THAT is an image I will never be able to get out of my head. The horror!

What city? There are options.

jonnynobody said:

BTW, OP:

If you think your local ordinance is fucked up, try living in Grand Rapids my friend...

http://kb.rpoaonline.org/ikm/questions.php?questionid=15&todo=__print

This is the page of regulations that applies to caregivers where I live. Fucked up shit eh? This ordinance and the ones like it are living proof that democracy doesn't matter when tyranny amongst thieves (i.e. city council) becomes the rule of law.

Must be awfully convenient to simply ignore the laws within the state you simply don't agree with. There is no precedence or legal authority for these "inspection laws" to exist...just plain and simple power grab is all it is.

Long live the gestapo...

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There is every precedence and and legal authority for a local government to create its own laws as they relate to any state law, so long as they do not counteract a specific state statute. Here's an example: Dry counties. Even in states where booze is legal, some counties make it illegal to sell it there. Local government has far more power than most people want to believe, and that's as it should be. The people in your city government are much easier to reach and criticize and react to then those in your state legislative bodies.

While you and I might not like the ordinances, local governments have full authority to create and enforce them. We also have the power to run as candidates, to speak in opposition, to create a public furor, and to just ignore our local government until they've already done the damage and we're like "What? I hate you guys, even though I didn't vote in the last local election." Participation is key.

Who is legally allowed in a grow room? Patient and or caregiver.

How would that person be certified or qualified. Electrical inspector need to know a thing or two.
Apply for the job as inspector.

Electrical/plumbing inspections are well within their jurisdiction.






MrB??? U devil!!! I had to put on my computer glasses to make sure that wasn't lil'sis Greg S wants to meet professionAnALy

PaxEtBonum said:

There is every precedence and and legal authority for a local government to create its own laws as they relate to any state law, so long as they do not counteract a specific state statute. Here's an example: Dry counties. Even in states where booze is legal, some counties make it illegal to sell it there. Local government has far more power than most people want to believe, and that's as it should be. The people in your city government are much easier to reach and criticize and react to then those in your state legislative bodies.


While you and I might not like the ordinances, local governments have full authority to create and enforce them. We also have the power to run as candidates, to speak in opposition, to create a public furor, and to just ignore our local government until they've already done the damage and we're like "What? I hate you guys, even though I didn't vote in the last local election." Participation is key.

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The ordinance's DO violate state law if they require an inspection of a caregiver's residence. That's kind of the point dude...

While I agree with the 'spirit' of your statement, you are factually incorrect. Medical marijuana is not treated the same as alcohol and you should thoroughly understand that before you make comments as you have. So far as I know, there is no such thing as medical alcohol. (at least not since the 1920's). You're trying to compare 2 things that are not equal.

NurseNancy420 said:

MrB??? U devil!!! I had to put on my computer glasses to make sure that wasn't lil'sis Greg S wants to meet professionAnALy

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ohhh she gets around

jonnynobody said:

The ordinance's DO violate state law if they require an inspection of a caregiver's residence. That's kind of the point dude...

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specifically the grow room which state law says only the caregiver shall be allowed to enter

Bottom line: a city ordinance cannot violate state law.

End of discussion.

as i said dealt with that about the right to farm act and backyard chickens in the burbs.

PaxEtBonum said:

State law does not override a county or municipality's rights to create ordinances in regard to regulation and enforcement of any laws in so much as they are not immediately and clearly addressed within the state statute in question.

In short, unless your state statute says something similar to "No county, city, or village may create ordinances designed to inspect growing operations" then it is perfectly legal for the local government body to pass this legislation. Even if it weren't legal, it would require a legal battle and quite a bit of funds to go up against a team of municipal or county attorneys and fight the bill as an infringement on right provided by a specific statute.

Now that that's out of the way, you asked how you can stop if from happening. This depends largely on who is proposing this ordinance and what their arguments in favor of it might be. This also depends upon your ability to organize and have a public outcry at your next council meeting (or committee meeting). I'm going to suppose that your city government has two standing committees that propose and vote on legislation before moving it forward for consideration by the entire council. Was this ordinance mentioned for the first time at the meeting you recently attended, or is it already slated for a vote in the near future (like next week?)?

You have some options, but the best thing you can do is pack part of the council chambers with local people (those who live in your city or county) in opposition. You'll need to have them sign up to speak or at least register with the city clerk as "opposed" to the ordinance. You'll need to be polite and lay out an sensible reason for your opposition, and you'll need to structure the opposition speaking time in such a way as that no one repeats what someone else said already. PM me if you want some help with this, but basically, you need to organize, you need to show up, and you need to state your case. If you're short on time, write a letter to the editor tonight and have other people write letters every few days until the vote comes up.

I can't create your arguments for you, so brainstorm with a few people, and PM me with what your arguments against inspection might be. I can help tweak them for you.

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If I have to explain to you why inspections are illegal, you sir are not worth the effort. I say that as respectfully as I can.

mrbungle79 said:

She gets prettier by the puff

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She could eat an apple through a picket fence.

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PaxEtBonum said:

State law does not override a county or municipality's rights to create ordinances in regard to regulation and enforcement of any laws in so much as they are not immediately and clearly addressed within the state statute in question.

In short, unless your state statute says something similar to "No county, city, or village may create ordinances designed to inspect growing operations" then it is perfectly legal for the local government body to pass this legislation. Even if it weren't legal, it would require a legal battle and quite a bit of funds to go up against a team of municipal or county attorneys and fight the bill as an infringement on right provided by a specific statute.

Now that that's out of the way, you asked how you can stop if from happening. This depends largely on who is proposing this ordinance and what their arguments in favor of it might be. This also depends upon your ability to organize and have a public outcry at your next council meeting (or committee meeting). I'm going to suppose that your city government has two standing committees that propose and vote on legislation before moving it forward for consideration by the entire council. Was this ordinance mentioned for the first time at the meeting you recently attended, or is it already slated for a vote in the near future (like next week?)?

You have some options, but the best thing you can do is pack part of the council chambers with local people (those who live in your city or county) in opposition. You'll need to have them sign up to speak or at least register with the city clerk as "opposed" to the ordinance. You'll need to be polite and lay out an sensible reason for your opposition, and you'll need to structure the opposition speaking time in such a way as that no one repeats what someone else said already. PM me if you want some help with this, but basically, you need to organize, you need to show up, and you need to state your case. If you're short on time, write a letter to the editor tonight and have other people write letters every few days until the vote comes up.

I can't create your arguments for you, so brainstorm with a few people, and PM me with what your arguments against inspection might be. I can help tweak them for you.

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Are you up to speed with Ter Beek v City of Wyoming? Per the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act, Enacted Law 1 of 2008: "7(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act." The case is before the MI Supreme Court. An opinion will be handed down just about any time now. We are expectantly waiting for it. The Court of Appeals ruling is available online.

Then there is this:

MICHIGAN ZONING ENABLING ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 110 of 2006

125.3402 Notice of intent to file petition.Sec. 402.
(1) Within 7 days after publication of a zoning ordinance under section 401, a registered elector residing in the zoning jurisdiction of a county or township may file with the clerk of the legislative body a notice of intent to file a petition under this section.
(2) If a notice of intent is filed under subsection (1), the petitioner shall have 30 days following the publication of the zoning ordinance to file a petition signed by a number of registered electors residing in the zoning jurisdiction not less than 15% of the total vote cast within the zoning jurisdiction for all candidates for governor at the last preceding general election at which a governor was elected, with the clerk of the legislative body requesting the submission of a zoning ordinance or part of a zoning ordinance to the electors residing in the zoning jurisdiction for their approval.
(3) Upon the filing of a notice of intent under subsection (1), the zoning ordinance or part of the zoning ordinance adopted by the legislative body shall not take effect until 1 of the following occurs:
(a) The expiration of 30 days after publication of the ordinance, if a petition is not filed within that time.
(b) If a petition is filed within 30 days after publication of the ordinance, the clerk of the legislative body determines that the petition is inadequate.
(c) If a petition is filed within 30 days after publication of the ordinance, the clerk of the legislative body determines that the petition is adequate and the ordinance or part of the ordinance is approved by a majority of the registered electors residing in the zoning jurisdiction voting on the petition at the next regular election or at any special election called for that purpose. The legislative body shall provide the manner of submitting the zoning ordinance or part of the zoning ordinance to the electors for their approval or rejection and determining the result of the election.
(4) A petition and an election under this section are subject to the Michigan election law, 1954 PA 116, MCL 168.1 to 168.992.

The timeline is short and I do not know how many sigs would be needed, but it is a political solution to try alongside any legal solution. If you call the city clerk and ask how many total votes were cast for the office of governor in the city in 2010, then the number of sigs you would need within 30 days after the ordinance is published is 15% of that vote total. If that seems feasible, it is a shot at a popular vote to repeal the new ordinance if they pass it. Further, if you make a credible threat to file such petition NOW then maybe they will not pass the zoning ordinance in the first place. I doubt that they would want a vote on this.

We can rattle their chains with 42 U.S.C. § 1983, commonly referred to as "section 1983":
Every person who under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

We can at least threaten to sue the bastards individually for money and probably win, or at least cause them grave concern. They would think twice about having to each defend a lawsuit that aims at their personal bank account. Think this won't get their attention?

And yes, the Michigan Right to Farm Act can play.

We appreciate the sentiment.

mrbungle79 said:

oh come on guys, she ain't that bad....kinda growin' on me

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If you insist...

NurseNancy420 said:

Who is legally allowed in a grow room? Patient and or caregiver.

How would that person be certified or qualified. Electrical inspector need to know a thing or two.
Apply for the job as inspector.

Electrical/plumbing inspections are well within their jurisdiction.






MrB??? U devil!!! I had to put on my computer glasses to make sure that wasn't lil'sis Greg S wants to meet professionAnALy

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We need to party together. No excuses.

The MMMA does not allow for any inspections therefore the only LEGAL thing the county, etc can do is use business type zoning and ordinances and caregiving is not a business. So the ordinances cannot dictate what a patient or caregiver does when the MMMA says they can. Like someone else said that is the end of it period.

jamiesname said:

So my city is in the process of passing an ordinance on MMJ. I went to the meeting to add my two cents, but there was only two other guys there besides the city council. Anyways, the city is planning on making an ordinance that requires that caregivers (not patients growing for themselves) to undergo an annual inspection of their grow site(s) to ensure legality. It's a bunch of BS to be honest. Does anyone know how to go about forcing them to drop that part of the ordinance? It seems that arguing about it with them isn't going to cut it, they have their minds made up. It's going to require a courtroom for sure.

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Try contacting the ACLU, I believe they have successfully fought this type of thing in the past...

Situation420 said:

How the f can u complain if you are getting permission to grow anything legally?

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yeah....that attitude had signs up all over the south-how can you complain, we gave you a water fountain too, its just on the other side and we'll lynch you if you use the whites only fountain.

Twenty or so attendees from around the state lined up to speak, bringing up the above mentioned points and whatever other creative testimony they can come up with works, and did in Saginaw. It was decided to drop it altogether. It is essential that local people do the heavy lifting. Put on your shiny shoes, stand up, smile, and talk to the nice people on your city council. You have usually three to five minutes. Then you can celebrate. Start banging the drum yesterday. An organized response with a well written press release to your local media works wonders. Smile for the cameras.

Worked for me.

ozzrokk said:

The MMMA does not allow for any inspections therefore the only LEGAL thing the county, etc can do is use business type zoning and ordinances and caregiving is not a business. So the ordinances cannot dictate what a patient or caregiver does when the MMMA says they can. Like someone else said that is the end of it period.

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Unless it's not ozz. Municipalities have and will continue with these until and unless we stand them down. Be smart about it.

So who here lives in those communities where this is going on? Where are these localities?

Pissin' 'n whinin' n' moanin' are, well, pissin' 'n whinin' 'n moanin'. If you are one of those who get your kicks that way, do we need to listen? Would not getting up on your hind feet to manage the situation give you more satisfaction? This can be done.

cephalopod said:

Isn't this pretty much the same thing as a municipality trying to put a moratorium on growing? I thought I had read something about inspections in the provisioning bill, but haven't been able to find anything specifically. I don't know, but seems like state law should over ride any bs ordinance. I would say a court injunction would squelch the weasel.

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And who is going to bring the suit and file for the injunction against the municipality?

Thought so.