Clarification on what an R2 cross is?

PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
"Selfed" means that you reversed a female cultivar and fertilized that same cultivar with itself (hence the name "selfed").

If you reverse a cultivar, and use that reversed pollen to fertilize a different cultivar, then it's an F1.

Whatever this "R1" is, it sounds like pure fiction, not something which you would ever hear of in any legitimate scientific breeding discussions.
 
Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
So you have two females A and B from same filial gen.
You self A and polinate B using A's pollen.
Offspring of B is now an R1 (not an s1).
Grow those out and anything polinated with the same pollen from A (P1)...offspring is R2.
Sort of like bx, you have to have the original P1 in there or it's not an R2.
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So that's what it's called. I had planned out to do this with an auto line. Self one, take the pollen and seed out a sister plant grown with lag time, pop dem seeds and pollenate with stored pollen from the selfed. Keep goin to like 4 or 5 and i should hone down what i want
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's called that...i like the name. Maybe ethos made it up but according to the axioms of genetics and nomenclature it aint an F1, and it aint a backcross. That's all im doing, following the rules. F1 needs to have male genes in there, if not it can not continue to create further offspring without nomenclature change. Without ability to create further generations then it fails the fundamental requirement to be defined a generation in the first fkn place!! You see what ur doing? Im pulling my hair out here trying to help.
If you dont want to call them R1's or R2's that's fine but i warn you, this unique aspect of our hobby will need to be "scientifically" described by "science" one day.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Maybe it's called that...i like the name. Maybe ethos made it up but according to the axioms of genetics and nomenclature it aint an F1, and it aint a backcross. That's all im doing, following the rules. F1 needs to have male genes in there, if not it can not continue to create further offspring without nomenclature change. Without ability to create further generations then it fails the fundamental requirement to be defined a generation in the first fkn place!! You see what ur doing? Im pulling my hair out here trying to help.
If you dont want to call them R1's or R2's that's fine but i warn you, this unique aspect of our hobby will need to be "scientifically" described by "science" one day.
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Where have you read that male genes are required for an F1 generation? When Mendel did his experiments with peas, he created the parents thru self-fertilization until he got one plant that produced offspring with only green pods and one that produced offspring with only yellow pods.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
Where have you read that male genes are required for an F1 generation? When Mendel did his experiments with peas, he created the parents thru self-fertilization until he got one plant that produced offspring with only green pods and one that produced offspring with only yellow pods.
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Screenshot_20220913-172144_Chrome.jpg
Son or daughter
 
Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
But if you're planning to take that "F1" that was pollinated sister to sister and then pollinating granddaughters and so on. . . . this should be something different than just F1's or S1's. I dunno what back crossing is yet. Or recombinant. or IBL? whatever that is too.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
F1 = Male + Female from two separate genetic lines. R1 = Female + Female from two separate genetic lines. One of the females is reversed and used as a pollen donor. The resulting seeds are feminized. R1 is the first generation just as F1 is the first generation.

I have not seen R1 used this way outside of cannabis.

It means something else in other circles.

  • Seed regulations specify how many generations are allowed between breeder seed and the commercial seed sold to farmers. Depending on this number of generations the seed is sold as a specific seed class. The most common commercial seed classes are C1 or R1 (certified seed first generation), C2 or R2 (certified seed second generation), R3 (in some countries) and QDS (quality declared seed).
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
Awesome, so layman’s terms it’s essentially an F2 with self-ed pollen? But clearly you couldn’t call it F2 bcs it should also be fem seed not Reg?
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Yes, its basically a feminized F2 but you can replace the letter F with any other letter you want, like Ethos has done. The nomenclature is simply there for the breeder to keep track of different generations.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Ok. So. You look at this thru the eyes of pyramids, family trees, genealogical graphs on paper. Pretend you have to describe these mice experiments in ur thesis...to the "scientific" community.
You should start with the terminology P1.
Medical Definition of P1 generation
: a generation consisting of stocks which are usually homozygous for one or more traits and from which the parents used in the first cross of a genetic experiment are selected — compare f1 generation, f2 generation.

Ok they make no mention of sex do they? That's strange...sex doesn't matter in genetics and scientific data? No it doesn't but in that same paper let's say you do use asexual breeding and dioecious breeding.
generation
[jen″er-a´shun]
1. the process of reproduction.
2. a class composed of all individuals removed by the same number of successive ancestors from a common predecessor, or occupying positions on the same level in a genealogical (pedigree) chart.
alternate generation reproduction by alternate asexual and sexual means in an animal or plant species.
asexual generation (direct generation) production of a new organism not originating from union of gametes.
first filial generation the first-generation offspring of two parents; symbol F1.
parental generation the generation with which a particular genetic study is begun; symbol P1.
second filial generation all of the offspring produced by two individuals of the first filial generation; symbol F2.
Source:dictionary

You see that important bit? Asexual...without gamete union...males!! You wanna talk in front of scientists, this is where you will get held to account.
production of a new organism not originating from union of gametes.
Fkn read that twice i don't want to have to come back here.
The process in which union of male and female gametes (formed by gametogenesis) and fusion of pronuclei of sperm and egg (ovum) takes place is called fertilization.

Now go back to your school paper you are writting and track your P1 parents, and subsequent generational pedigrees. Are u writting about asexual reproduction or not, here on RIU, about cannabis plants and its pedigree, we include alternate generation, and asexual generation. Pollen from a selfed female chucked at another female wont be called an F1...cuz it isnt from parents...its an alternate generation. How does our cannabis species create P1s?
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Ok. So. You look at this thru the eyes of pyramids, family trees, genealogical graphs on paper. Pretend you have to describe these mice experiments in ur thesis...to the "scientific" community.
You should start with the terminology P1.
Medical Definition of P1 generation
: a generation consisting of stocks which are usually homozygous for one or more traits and from which the parents used in the first cross of a genetic experiment are selected — compare f1 generation, f2 generation.

Ok they make no mention of sex do they? That's strange...sex doesn't matter in genetics and scientific data? No it doesn't but in that same paper let's say you do use asexual breeding and dioecious breeding.
generation
[jen″er-a´shun]
1. the process of reproduction.
2. a class composed of all individuals removed by the same number of successive ancestors from a common predecessor, or occupying positions on the same level in a genealogical (pedigree) chart.
alternate generation reproduction by alternate asexual and sexual means in an animal or plant species.
asexual generation (direct generation) production of a new organism not originating from union of gametes.
first filial generation the first-generation offspring of two parents; symbol F1.
parental generation the generation with which a particular genetic study is begun; symbol P1.
second filial generation all of the offspring produced by two individuals of the first filial generation; symbol F2.
Source:dictionary

You see that important bit? Asexual...without gamete union...males!! You wanna talk in front of scientists, this is where you will get held to account.
production of a new organism not originating from union of gametes.
Fkn read that twice i don't want to have to come back here.
The process in which union of male and female gametes (formed by gametogenesis) and fusion of pronuclei of sperm and egg (ovum) takes place is called fertilization.

Now go back to your school paper you are writting and track your P1 parents, and subsequent generational pedigrees. Are u writting about asexual reproduction or not, here on RIU, about cannabis plants and its pedigree, we include alternate generation, and asexual generation. Pollen from a selfed female chucked at another female wont be called an F1...cuz it isnt from parents...its an alternate generation. How does our cannabis species create P1s?
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Um, "asexual breeding"? How's that work? I'm pretty sure that's not a thing.
 
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