Clarification on what an R2 cross is?

mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
P1 are your parent plants.

Asexual reproduction is not the same as "asexual breeding".
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Yes and the genes from the female that was selfed and thrown on its siblings...those are not parents are they ...why arent they P1s? Because our species P1s starts at male/female union...you dont get to make up new terminology describing this genetic union
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Yes and the genes from the female that was selfed and thrown on its siblings...those are not parents are they ...why arent they P1s? Because our species P1s starts at male/female union...you dont get to make up new terminology describing this genetic union
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You are misusing the term "selfed", which makes your statement confusing. A plant which is "selfed" is one which is sexually reversed (aka, "reversed"), and then that pollen is used to pollenate a genetic clone of the same plant.

Please show me any legitimate definition which states that the parental plants are required to carry any specific genes.

You don't get to make up new definitions either.

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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Sexually reversed but still has lost all of the P2's genes...gone. ur still inside P1 using alternate generation naming until you outcross.
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Dude, P1 is simply the first parental generation for your breeding project. If you have two P1's and cross them, you get an F1. Simple. You could take that new F1 and start a new breeding project with it, and it would now be the P1 for your new breeding project. It's only relative nomenclature. You are getting stuck on one aspect of it (lack of male chromosomes), but not realizing that aspect doesn't play a role in the nomenclature itself.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Sexually reversed but still has lost all of the P2's genes...gone. ur still inside P1 using alternate generation naming until you outcross.
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Look at it this way..

If you cross a male plant with a female plant, and you pop one of the resulting seeds from the cross, which comes out female; is genetically-sexually any different than a female plant which comes from "selfed" breeding? (spoiler alert).. There is no difference, as both individual plants will have xx chromosomes.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Sexually reversed but still has lost all of the P2's genes...gone.
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I dont believe you would lose all P2's genes, just the Y chromosomes and any Y-linked traits but not all traits are sex-linked.
If you crossed an OG (f) x GSC(m), then reversed one of their offspring would you only see OG plants and there would be no GSC traits in any of the offspring?
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Dude, P1 is simply the first parental generation for your breeding project. If you have two P1's and cross them, you get an F1. Simple. You could take that new F1 and start a new breeding project with it, and it would now be the P1 for your new breeding project. It's only relative nomenclature. You are getting stuck on one aspect of it (lack of male chromosomes), but not realizing that aspect doesn't play a role in the nomenclature itself.
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And P1s are defined by gamete union...you guys are not paying attention
 
Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
So you're saying that when you reverse a female and pollinate itself, it only passes on twin sets of everything attached to the x and the y traits are just left out in the forming of a seed?
 
Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
Isn't there variance in the pollen itself which are attached to the x it's carrying around. And wouldn't the formation of a full strand of DNA be all fucked because nothing would be matched like the reversed mother?
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
remember we are discussing R2's...at least i am trying to stay on that.
Selfed F1 plant A (P1) x sibling F1 plant B (P2) = offspring F1
yes that works, that is a formal way of using that terminology, but when you want to describe R2....things must be approached differently.
 
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mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
I dont believe you would lose all P2's genes, just the Y chromosomes and any Y-linked traits but not all traits are sex-linked.
If you crossed an OG (f) x GSC(m), then reversed one of their offspring would you only see OG plants and there would be no GSC traits in any of the offspring?
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yeah i shouldve reworded that...they aren't gone gone, you just only have what comes with the first recombination...the ability to merge more of the P2s genes are gone...you can't make new recombinations.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
I think i know where dialogue went sideways...when i said Filial needs a male...when trying to define an R2 we need the male, we need to define the P1 and P2 and in cannabis those are male and female to start a generation that created the female to be reversed, though it doesn't have to be male x female every time.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
And P1s are defined by gamete union...you guys are not paying attention
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How is there not a gamete union when you pollinate a female with the pollen of another female? Yes, you've removed the Y chromosomes from the pollen donor, however the union occurs regardless. This is sexual reproduction by definition, not asexual.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
How is there not a gamete union when you pollinate a female with the pollen of another female? Yes, you've removed the Y chromosomes from the pollen donor, however the union occurs regardless. This is sexual reproduction by definition, not asexual.
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It is a gamete union i guess i couldve worded that better...to call them the parents in a male/female cannabis breeding that will have an R2, you need the fertilizationof a female by a male to make...

Gametogenesis is the production of gametes from haploid precursor cells. In animals and higher plants, two morphologically distinct types of gametes are produced (male and female)
the nuances of this academic dialog must be so precise in wording and yes i fail often.
You seem to keep searching for a broader failing of my posts and logic statements rather than the application of its rules. You wanna call a sibling fertilized by a selfed female sibling F1's or F2s from two distinct P1's be my guest...but ill disagree
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
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Do you know what needs to be paired to make the F2's? This is the underlying genetic stuff i keep referencing...but you keep trying to destroy
 
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