Classic case of calmag deficiency? (Pics)

hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
Johnei said:
Listen bro, I don't even care what you already did, listen to me very carefuly and I will help you.

You are in rockwool correct, it does not matter what is wrong with the plant, this is what you do and they are fixed!

You need gh 3 part, and only use the Micro bottle and the Bloom bottle. you mix them 1:2 ratio exactly.
1part Micro
2part Bloom

set ph to 5.7

set EC to 1.5 yes, 1.5 (Use EC meter, not ppm bullshit.)

water not freezing

now water from the top like mad man, slowly letting it go through, and again and again, dont test anything, run more and more of this solution through them and then, leave them

they are now fixed.

put the light down on them and set the new tank exactly the same formula.

If your next watering is too late, if ANY roots die back or the cube gets too crusty dry, this will happen again.

If you water too soon again, and everytime when you water always watering too soon keeping them overly saturated, this will happen again.


Assuming your water schedule is on point,
these next days after doing this will tell you exactly what they want or dont want by observing the EC rise or fall, and the pH rise or fall.

If the EC drops and pH goes up, they want more EC, 100% !!!

if the EC rises, and the pH drops, EC 1.5 is a tad too much for them and you lower the EC by THAT much, what you observed rising. understand? grow bro.

IF the pH is staying pretty stable, and the water level is dropping, and EC is staying stable as the water level drops, you got it. they are properly feeding the desired amount.

Now, the super sweet spot even a little better than this is.....
Listen to this:
Nutrients are all acidic! when you add them to water the pH goes down, if the plant is sucking up nutrients from this water, the pH will rise, as EC falls with the water level, showing they are drinking well. do you understand. nutrients are acidic.

So,

when the EC is staying precicely where you set it
and the water level is dropping as the days pass showing they are really drinking the water down.
AND the pH is not steady perfect, but day by day the pH is slightly rising... this is the super sweet spot, showing you the balance is just that tiny bit over the line where pH rises, as acid drops(nutrients.) equal to the water dropping showing they are feeding.

This is the way brother.

It is good to just leave it alone, dont add acid pH down to keep it PRECICELY at 5.7, once you find the sweet spot, just leave them alone for days until the tank hits 6.1 then you begin back at 5.7 again. this drift is extremly beneficial for the hydro plants to optain more nutrients through the pH range completely and for the best growth rates.


This is all I have to help you. If you follow exactly what I say it is impossible to fail.
Only Micro:Bloom in 1:2ratio @pH 5.7 @EC1.5 and begin observations.

I hope you understand, I am truly trying to help you completely and that you don't take my 'tone' in the wrong way.


Good Growing! :joint:<4u


--Edit:
Water from the top by hand the next 2 watering like that, then rely on the tank again.
Click to expand...

Ok I'm going to try this. Bought the bottles.
I'm doing a slight tweak I hope it's okay, I'm going to do a slight flush first using 4ml/8ml per gallon. My last feeding the ppm came out 100 higher than what I put in so i just want to undo any inbalance in the cubes first. Then I'll add 8ml/16ml and run the whole batch through them 100% runoff. 25 gallons for 32 cubes.

Edit: so I just made the flush batch. 15 gallons RO at 10ppm. 4ml per gallon micro then 8ml per gallon bloom. My numbers are 535ppm and 5.1ph

Does this sound right?? Why is the ph so low and the ppm so high? If I follow the Lucas formula it says to use 8ml/16ml that means I'd be over 1000 ppm (2.0ec+)

Edit: put in 8 more gallons of water took it to 365, 5.35.

Put 0.25ml ph up brought it to 5.7/365

Runoffs:

695, 6.4
680, 6.3
713, 6.6 (less runoff)
743, 6.5 (even less runoff)

Time to make 1.5ec (750ppm) food 25 gallons and run it through them

Edit: made the real food at 6ml/12ml in 25 gallons put me at 750ppm (1.5ec) and 5.5 ph. Added 2ml ph up to hit 5.7.

Fed all 25 gallons about half a gallon per cube.

Runoffs:

520, 6.1
575, 6.1
540, 6.3
575, 6.2

(a little bit of previous runoff always stays in the runoff containers so it isn't very accurate)
 
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Johnei

Johnei

Well-Known Member
hot cheetos said:
Edit: made the real food at 6ml/12ml in 25 gallons put me at 750ppm (1.5ec) and 5.5 ph. Added 2ml ph up to hit 5.7.

Fed all 25 gallons about half a gallon per cube.

Runoffs:

520, 6.1
575, 6.1
540, 6.3
575, 6.2
Click to expand...
putting in EC1.5, and it coming out higher pH and lower EC

THEY ARE FEEDING BRO!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY... now do exactly what I said.... and pay attention to the bit about over or underwatering. water at right times!

..and remember, the next and next and next watering/feeding will tell you what's up.. and what is up that I get from your post.. they want more EC!... you must know the EC to ppm conversion ration of your ppm meter.. 0.5, 0.65, 0.7... then only talk to me in EC, and forever everytime on the forum, can understand better in EC and no question what real ppm is.. Use EC, not ppm. good luck bro.
(start EC1.5 1:2 micro:bloom @pH5.7 and now you tweak letting them talk to you.)
{p.s. ;) Do not be afraid of EC, it does not matter what YOU think is too high or too low etc. The plant is telling you exactly what it wants at this moment.}

:joint:

edit-next feed/wateriing @EC1.7 @pH 5.7 (always pH5.7 forever in your rockwool life, forever man, 5.7 is the sweet spot and allowing slow rise to 6.1 in the tank max.)... then test runnoff again, always good amount of runoff, but no need for flushing too much liquid through or anything llike that. They are now already fixed, they have balanced brand new food, and they are eating already, and have already asked for more concentrated food.);)

p.s. #2.. I have found in my rockwool growing days, running to waste using drippers is so much superior than flood and drain recirculating, the wool just never gets buildup and no unbalanced 'dirty' used solution ever touches them, 100% always in full move forward growth mode.. always getting balanced new complete food source. I like dripping from the top in wool, and running to waste.. makes life so much easier for sure. Just some a thought for you grow bro.
 
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hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
Johnei said:
putting in EC1.5, and it coming out higher pH and lower EC

THEY ARE FEEDING BRO!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY... now do exactly what I said.... and pay attention to the bit about over or underwatering. water at right times!

..and remember, the next and next and next watering/feeding will tell you what's up.. and what is up that I get from your post.. they want more EC!... you must know the EC to ppm conversion ration of your ppm meter.. 0.5, 0.65, 0.7... then only talk to me in EC, and forever everytime on the forum, can understand better in EC and no question what real ppm is.. Use EC, not ppm. good luck bro.
(start EC1.5 1:2 micro:bloom @pH5.7 and now you tweak letting them talk to you.)
{p.s. ;) Do not be afraid of EC, it does not matter what YOU think is too high or too low etc. The plant is telling you exactly what it wants at this moment.}

:joint:

edit-next feed/wateriing @EC1.7 @pH 5.7 (always pH5.7 forever in your rockwool life, forever man, 5.7 is the sweet spot and allowing slow rise to 6.1 in the tank max.)... then test runnoff again, always good amount of runoff, but no need for flushing too much liquid through or anything llike that. They are now already fixed, they have balanced brand new food, and they are eating already, and have already asked for more concentrated food.);)

p.s. #2.. I have found in my rockwool growing days, running to waste using drippers is so much superior than flood and drain recirculating, the wool just never gets buildup and no unbalanced 'dirty' used solution ever touches them, 100% always in full move forward growth mode.. always getting balanced new complete food source. I like dripping from the top in wool, and running to waste.. makes life so much easier for sure. Just some a thought for you grow bro.
Click to expand...
Do we know they are feeding though at this point? Because since I flushed with 350 ppm then fed 750 isn't the lower ppm runoff a result of the 350ppm in the cubes being mixed with the 750 resulting in a lower concentration runoff?

Yes, I do not have a recirculating system or flood and drain. It's a top feed drip system to waste. When I hand feed, it's also all to waste, never reused.
 
Johnei

Johnei

Well-Known Member
No, up the EC.

(If what you say was a possibility, why did pH rise then?)

Growing in hydro and being afraid of too high electroconductivty in the water for the roots is a mistake.
If we're talking ppm's, you start clones at 1000... feed them 1500ppm's when in strong veg mode.. etc. etc. No issues whatsoever, as long as you don't go over what they want, at any given time of their life, the plants talk to you through runoff EC and pH. This is the liquid that runs through their roots and gives the signal of what is up in the roots. must listen. you fed a certain EC and pH, washed through them, and resulting EC coming out is lower, and pH higher, they could of used higher EC. most any plants getting lots of foods and EC will come out high being all salty and nasty.. yours is lower and your plants in the pics; all the new growth happens to look very pale green and looking hungry. 1.7 I recommend next with good runoff and balanced 1:2 Micro:bloom @pH5.7 for no buildups etc. a nice complete meal..
hot cheetos said:
Do we know they are feeding though at this point? Because since I flushed with 350 ppm then fed 750 isn't the lower ppm runoff a result of the 350ppm in the cubes being mixed with the 750 resulting in a lower concentration runoff?

Yes, I do not have a recirculating system or flood and drain. It's a top feed drip system to waste. When I hand feed, it's also all to waste, never reused.
Click to expand...
 
hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
Johnei said:
No, up the EC.

(If what you say was a possibility, why did pH rise then?)

Growing in hydro and being afraid of too high electroconductivty in the water for the roots is a mistake.
If we're talking ppm's, you start clones at 1000... feed them 1500ppm's when in strong veg mode.. etc. etc. No issues whatsoever, as long as you don't go over what they want, at any given time of their life, the plants talk to you through runoff EC and pH. This is the liquid that runs through their roots and gives the signal of what is up in the roots. must listen. you fed a certain EC and pH, washed through them, and resulting EC coming out is lower, and pH higher, they could of used higher EC. most any plants getting lots of foods and EC will come out high being all salty and nasty.. yours is lower and your plants in the pics; all the new growth happens to look very pale green and looking hungry. 1.7 I recommend next with good runoff and balanced 1:2 Micro:bloom @pH5.7 for no buildups etc. a nice complete meal..
Click to expand...
Oh, i see. But in that case what happened when I flushed with 350 ppm/5.7ph and got runoff 700-750ppm/6.3-6.6ph?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Johnei said:
f we're talking ppm's, you start clones at 1000... feed them 1500ppm's when in strong veg mode.. etc. etc. No issues whatsoever, as long as you don't go over what they want,
Click to expand...
I say similar to this all the time, but the trend has been to starve younger plants. There's no reason to start EC low and gradually ease it up to full strength... Just start at full strength.
 
Johnei

Johnei

Well-Known Member
hot cheetos said:
Oh, i see. But in that case what happened when I flushed with 350 ppm/5.7ph and got runoff 700-750ppm/6.3-6.6ph?
Click to expand...
There was most likely a build up and also maybe pH out of whack and the runoff was a middle ground of the 2, which is why in my first instructions i said to do the first watering/s with the 1:2 micro bloom formula with lots of runoff for a 'reset' then begin observations and adjust as needed/as they command. (LOL I also said dont measure this runoff that first watering.. LOL.. because it doesn't matter.)
 
hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
I'd like to thank everyone again for all the assistance I've been getting here. The plants look great, just started week #5 2 days ago. Pics attached.

On a side note, I got hit with thrips again. I have way too much foliage to be able to effectively treat the plants with Montereys. I wouldnt hit all the leaves, not even close. Not to mention I'd have to push and shove around so many colas just to do the job inadequately/ineffectively.

My question is can I use Pyrethrum Fogger this late into flower? I know its fairly harmless but someone mentioned that it might wet the buds and cause mold? Also, my space is a 10x10 tent and the foggers are used to treat 3000cubic feet. Wouldnt that be wayyy overdose? I read I could just leave the tent open and just place the fogger in my 3000 cubic feet room where the tent sits and that will do the job?

Oh, I just remembered another thing. I have a lot of dead leaves underneath my canopy, under the screen. Just crusty crunchy brown dead leaves. I don't really get why theyre dying if nothing else on the canopy is dying above the screen. Only guess would be that since theyre lollipopped, that is the lowest point that would start dying if it was something like nitrogen def for example, where the leaves get affected from bottom to top. Mobile deficiency i think it was. Anyway, any idea on this?

Much appreciated for any help, as always.
 

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Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
This thread just reinforces the lower EC's that people run and advise may not be the best advice. I have seen a few grows thrive here after it was suggested raising EC higher than I would have ever ran. I'm thinking next run I'll up starting and general EC levels. Thanks guys for the advice although it took a while for Church to actually make his point lol. As for thrips, hopefully there is something you can use but in flower I think your pretty limited :(.
 
hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
Budley Doright said:
This thread just reinforces the lower EC's that people run and advise may not be the best advice. I have seen a few grows thrive here after it was suggested raising EC higher than I would have ever ran. I'm thinking next run I'll up starting and general EC levels. Thanks guys for the advice although it took a while for Church to actually make his point lol. As for thrips, hopefully there is something you can use but in flower I think your pretty limited :(.
Click to expand...
I actually didn't raise the EC. Im still using 750 to this day. When i pushed them to 800 i got tip burn as you can see from the pics. So I bumped it back down to 750.

I dont think raising EC = thriving. The best rule of thumb that i think makes sense is to slowly raise EC until you get slight tip burn, then bump it back down to the last EC you used that didnt result in burn. Every strain reacts differently. You might want to do the raising until burn method maybe 3 times from veg to flower. Mid/late veg, early flower, mid flower.

I think most of peoples problems actually comes from bad EC/PH meters calibration, comically enough. I just calibrated my Hanna pen and it was WAYYY OFF! LOL. How the hell i made it this far without too many issues, i have no idea. It was like a whole 1.2 ph off. 5.7ph was actually 4.5 after i calibrated. I even went out and bought fresh bottles to double check and sure enough, same results.
 
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Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
hot cheetos said:
I actually didn't raise the EC. Im still using 750 to this day. When i pushed them to 800 i got tip burn as you can see from the pics. So I bumped it back down to 750.

I dont think raising EC = thriving. The best rule of thumb that i think makes sense is to slowly raise EC until you get slight tip burn, then bump it back down to the last EC you used that didnt result in burn. Every strain reacts differently. You might want to do the raising until burn method maybe 3 times from veg to flower. Mid/late veg, early flower, mid flower.

I think most of peoples problems actually comes from bad EC/PH meters calibration, comically enough. I just calibrated my Hanna pen and it was WAYYY OFF! LOL. How the hell i made it this far without too many issues, i have no idea. It was like a whole 1.2 ph off. 5.7ph was actually 4.5 after i calibrated. I even went out and bought fresh bottles to double check and sure enough, same results.
Click to expand...
Oh shit lol. So I'm back where I started then lol. I actually have not calibrated my EC ever and just watch what the readings are doing re up or down. I also watch the leaf tips and back off a bit if they change. I typically keep EC at 650-750 and it works, I guess the moral is, if it ain't broke don't change it. My issue was until the chiller the roots were suffering.
 
hot cheetos

hot cheetos

Active Member
Budley Doright said:
Oh shit lol. So I'm back where I started then lol. I actually have not calibrated my EC ever and just watch what the readings are doing re up or down. I also watch the leaf tips and back off a bit if they change. I typically keep EC at 650-750 and it works, I guess the moral is, if it ain't broke don't change it. My issue was until the chiller the roots were suffering.
Click to expand...
I had a big problem with lacking a chiller as well. Even though im in rockwool cubes, my reservoir was getting funky since it was sitting at 85-90*F lol. But yeah, I have no idea. Theyve been doing really good on a bad EC pen with completely wrong PH measurements. Now im wondering how they will react to proper PH feedings lol. PPM was only slightly off, about 50 ppms. We'll see, hopefully they will do better. Im going to go make a fresh batch now with correct readings for the first time since who knows when lmao. I calibrated at the beginning of this grow so that was about 2.5 months ago.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
hot cheetos said:
I had a big problem with lacking a chiller as well. Even though im in rockwool cubes, my reservoir was getting funky since it was sitting at 85-90*F lol. But yeah, I have no idea. Theyve been doing really good on a bad EC pen with completely wrong PH measurements. Now im wondering how they will react to proper PH feedings lol. PPM was only slightly off, about 50 ppms. We'll see, hopefully they will do better. Im going to go make a fresh batch now with correct readings for the first time since who knows when lmao. I calibrated at the beginning of this grow so that was about 2.5 months ago.
Click to expand...
I do keep pretty good track of PH and start at 5.6-7 then let it rise over the week or two refills.
 
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