Climate in the 21st Century

Will Humankind see the 22nd Century?

  • Not a fucking chance

    Votes: 45 28.1%

  • Maybe. if we get our act together

    Votes: 41 25.6%

  • Yes, we will survive

    Votes: 74 46.3%
  • Total voters
    160
injinji said:
Oil companies' scientists had better projections about warming than the government in the 1970's. They predicted 0.3F per decade. Actual warming was 0.32F.

www.scientificamerican.com

Exxon Knew about Climate Change Almost 40 Years Ago

A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
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well sure they did, they lied to the government and the public, providing them with false information. a crime they have never been charged with...
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
www.notebookcheck.net

Ford supplier demos EV battery that charges in 18 minutes with 1000-cycle longevity

Ford's battery partner in the BlueOval SK joint venture has demonstrated a battery technology that allows EV owners to charge the pack in 18 minutes. SK On achieved the feat by reducing the anode's resistance so that lithium ions can get in quicker and also using less adhesive all around.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net
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a thousand cycle longevity isn't that long...if you use it daily and charge it daily, that's 3 years...i expect a new vehicle to last at least 5 without having to change the single most expensive part in it.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
a thousand cycle longevity isn't that long...if you use it daily and charge it daily, that's 3 years...i expect a new vehicle to last at least 5 without having to change the single most expensive part in it.
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Range, charging cycles and charging time to biggest factors other than cost for EVs. I have been noticing a lot of third party aftermarket battery packs and rebuilt ones. The price of cells has gone way down and it is even worth buying an older EV and repacking it with better cells for longer range. I think as more EVs hit the roads the market for this service will grow. Also I think a lot of cars will be using sodium cells in a few years and the future iterations are suppose to have very long lifetimes, outlasting the car. It could end up being the other way around with the pack outlasting the car one day. There are gonna be big changes in the battery industry over the next decade with a lot of variety until the market shakes out a winner.

We are really just getting going with EVs and batteries, early days.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
Range, charging cycles and charging time to biggest factors other than cost for EVs. I have been noticing a lot of third party aftermarket battery packs and rebuilt ones. The price of cells has gone way down and it is even worth buying an older EV and repacking it with better cells for longer range. I think as more EVs hit the roads the market for this service will grow. Also I think a lot of cars will be using sodium cells in a few years and the future iterations are suppose to have very long lifetimes, outlasting the car. It could end up being the other way around with the pack outlasting the car one day. There are gonna be big changes in the battery industry over the next decade with a lot of variety until the market shakes out a winner.

We are really just getting going with EVs and batteries, early days.
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you missed a big one: energy consumption per distance. There is a physical limit to what can be drawn from a renter’s garage socket. The car must do the day’s mission on that amount. Utilities charge per kWh, not per mile. Which is why I find the new “no bed, no tow” electric pickups to be a cynical marketing exercise.
 
ok Even though EV are coming on the market....i'm still not sold...1: the actual infrastructure isn't there 2: is the battery technology it isn't there either......
 
cannabineer said:
you missed a big one: energy consumption per distance. There is a physical limit to what can be drawn from a renter’s garage socket. The car must do the day’s mission on that amount. Utilities charge per kWh, not per mile. Which is why I find the new “no bed, no tow” electric pickups to be a cynical marketing exercise.
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A small car is what you want to charge from home, a big half ton or a Hummer is not an option. How much mass you are moving counts a lot for home recharging an EV, however some people might have home battery banks that could allow higher charging rates and take advantage of cheap power rates. Sodium based batteries look like they could impact this "distributed" storage model and EV costs and are already in production by a couple of companies.

Most compact and sub compact cars can charge from home overnight using 220 volts and some can even top up using 120 overnight. I think in North America it will be the second car to go EV first, the one used around town and to drive to work from the burbs for the vast majority of people. People in cold climates can use electric block heater receptacles already in place at work and most apartments to both charge and warm interiors and batteries.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
A small car is what you want to charge from home, a big half ton or a Hummer is not an option. How much mass you are moving counts a lot for home recharging an EV, however some people might have home battery banks that could allow higher charging rates and take advantage of cheap power rates. Sodium based batteries look like they could impact this "distributed" storage model and EV costs and are already in production by a couple of companies.

Most compact and sub compact cars can charge from home overnight using 220 volts and some can even top up using 120 overnight. I think in North America it will be the second car to go EV first, the one used around town and to drive to work from the burbs for the vast majority of people. People in cold climates can use electric block heater receptacles already in place at work and most apartments to both charge and warm interiors and batteries.
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not renter solutions; please color within the lines
 
cannabineer said:
you missed a big one: energy consumption per distance. There is a physical limit to what can be drawn from a renter’s garage socket. The car must do the day’s mission on that amount. Utilities charge per kWh, not per mile. Which is why I find the new “no bed, no tow” electric pickups to be a cynical marketing exercise.
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Judge the purchase according to your needs and ability to charge from home, smaller is cheaper both in terms of installation and power usage. The vast majority of people commute less than 50 miles a day, so how may miles per KW/HR does it get and how many KW/HR can your home charger dump into it overnight. An EV with a 150 to 200 mile range should work fine even in cold weather with the heater on.

Since 1980, the average American commute time has increased by 27% (From 21.7 minutes to 27.6 minutes). The average American commutes 41 miles a day to and from work. 76.4% of U.S. workers drive alone to work.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
Judge the purchase according to your needs and ability to charge from home, smaller is cheaper both in terms of installation and power usage. The vast majority of people commute less than 50 miles a day, so how may miles per KW/HR does it get and how many KW/HR can your home charger dump into it overnight. An EV with a 150 to 200 mile range should work fine even in cold weather with the heater on.

Since 1980, the average American commute time has increased by 27% (From 21.7 minutes to 27.6 minutes). The average American commutes 41 miles a day to and from work. 76.4% of U.S. workers drive alone to work.
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I’m not the average American. I rent in the desert where energy is very expensive and distances are necessarily long. That 200 - mile range needs to be at GVRW, in the freezing rain, with a headwind both ways, at a use rate of 1kWh per 17 km.
It can be small, but it must be light. A Tesla with 100 kWh (range in winter less than 150 miles) masses over two tons. That is simply not a mature technology.
 
cannabineer said:
not renter solutions; please color within the lines
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All I can say about renters is when I lived in Winnipeg and rented, most places had block heater receptacles, even at work. Here on the coast it is milder and nobody uses a block heater and few cars have one. Some places are requiring EV plug ins if there is parking. However if you rent you will be limited to about 1200 KW/ hr. say KW/HR for simplicity so if you charge from 120V you can get 12KW/HR into the thing overnight over 12 hr. So if it gets around 4 miles/KW/HR it should get your compact car the 50 miles a day of the average commute.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
A small car is what you want to charge from home, a big half ton or a Hummer is not an option. How much mass you are moving counts a lot for home recharging an EV, however some people might have home battery banks that could allow higher charging rates and take advantage of cheap power rates. Sodium based batteries look like they could impact this "distributed" storage model and EV costs and are already in production by a couple of companies.

Most compact and sub compact cars can charge from home overnight using 220 volts and some can even top up using 120 overnight. I think in North America it will be the second car to go EV first, the one used around town and to drive to work from the burbs for the vast majority of people. People in cold climates can use electric block heater receptacles already in place at work and most apartments to both charge and warm interiors and batteries.
Click to expand...
cannabineer said:
not renter solutions; please color within the lines
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I'm not a renter, but I also haven't yet installed a Level 2 (220v) charger, I just use the 1600watt charger that plugs into the wall when I charge at home. If I'm at 20% when I plug in during the evening around 10pm, I'll be around 80% the next morning. I prefer to charge at work however as they have 220v chargers that push 6-kilowatts for just fifty-cents an hour.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
All I can say about renters is when I lived in Winnipeg and rented, most places had block heater receptacles, even at work. Here on the coast it is milder and nobody uses a block heater and few cars have one. Some places are requiring EV plug ins if there is parking. However if you rent you will be limited to about 1200 KW/ hr. say KW/HR for simplicity so if you charge from 120V you can get 12KW/HR into the thing overnight over 12 hr. So if it gets around 4 miles/KW/HR it should get your compact car the 50 miles a day of the average commute.
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what is a kW/hr?
and those 50 mi are each way.
There are no “free” outlets here. You telling me that those block heater outlets are unmetered?
 
cannabineer said:
I’m not the average American. I rent in the desert where energy is very expensive and distances are necessarily long. That 200 - mile range needs to be at GVRW, in the freezing rain, with a headwind both ways, at a use rate of 1kWh per 17 km.
It can be small, but it must be light. A Tesla with 100 kWh (range in winter less than 150 miles) masses over two tons. That is simply not a mature technology.
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For you a hybrid would be a better choice or just a small gas car and I agree the technology is not mature enough for me either and waiting a few years at least should see things change quite a bit. Battery plants using a variety of chemistries are springing up all over north America as the automakers make the big shift. I also expect those battery plants to retool like engine plants when improvements come along that make it viable.
 
PJ Diaz said:
I'm not a renter, but I also haven't yet installed a Level 2 (220v) charger, I just use the 1600watt charger that plugs into the wall when I charge at home. If I'm at 20% when I plug in during the evening around 10pm, I'll be around 80% the next morning. I prefer to charge at work however as they have 220v chargers that push 6-kilowatts for just fifty-cents an hour.
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How are you paying 8c a kWh? My rates start at 30, and I’m anticipating another hike.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
For you a hybrid would be a better choice or just a small gas car and I agree the technology is not mature enough for me either and waiting a few years at least should see things change quite a bit. Battery plants using a variety of chemistries are springing up all over north America as the automakers make the big shift. I also expect those battery plants to retool like engine plants when improvements come along that make it viable.
Click to expand...
That is why I’m driving a small ICE car as long as they’ll let me.

I’d like an electric, once the tech catches up, as measured by cents per mile (total ownership experience).
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
For you a hybrid would be a better choice or just a small gas car and I agree the technology is not mature enough for me either and waiting a few years at least should see things change quite a bit. Battery plants using a variety of chemistries are springing up all over north America as the automakers make the big shift. I also expect those battery plants to retool like engine plants when improvements come along that make it viable.
Click to expand...
My 2016 Leaf is even less mature, but I don't regret buying it for a second. The maintenance costs have been ridiculously low. The fuel costs have been less than half what I would have paid in gas, and I genuinely enjoy driving the vehicle as a whoosh down the street. Not only that, but the car is now worth more than I paid for it 4 years ago, even with an additional 35k miles on it.
 
cannabineer said:
what is a kW/hr?
and those 50 mi are each way.
There are no “free” outlets here. You telling me that those block heater outlets are unmetered?
Click to expand...
KW/HR is a measure of battery energy capacity and small EVs often get over 4 miles per KW/HR
The figure was for commuting, that means both ways for most people.
They used to be and were only switched on for about 3 months at work during the coldest parts of the year, The point being it is possible to put 120 volt charging anywhere and technology could even use your car ID to automatically charge for energy, at work or anywhere you plug in at that power level.

Your circumstances are different than most people, so you must do what fits your lifestyle and economic needs the best, as will most people. EV's won't sell if people don't see an advantage to owning one and home charging would be on along with cheap power rates!
 
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