Cloning 101 - Controlled Clone Experiment - RIU user input welcomed

mysunnyboy said:

i don't like the vibes here
sunny's out

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You're always welcome back. Wasn't trying to create any bad vibes, especially around the plants. I was just trying to drill the fact that I am trying to do this thread for those who prefer mediums over machines. That's it. Like myself, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who can't use a machine because of sound, maintenance, space, availability, and other reasons. These tests are really just for personal use but I decided why not put my info here rather than a journal so others could see my results an possibly pick up a few tips.

superstoner1 said:

that is a shitload of greatwhite. in fact 3 scoops is for 50gal and at that price i would cut it down or switch to pondzyme. a fraction of the cost and treats thousands of gallons.

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Good eye! Thanks for pointing that out. If anybody doing hydro followed my dosage they would be wasting lots of money on the great white.

You are right and wrong. If you are growing hydro (like an ebb an flow) then yes, 3-4 scoops per 50 gallons. For soil and potted plants they recommend a solution of "1 scoop (1tsp) per 2 gallons of water". So my 3 scoops per 5 gallons of water should technically be 2.5 scoops but because GW is for the root zone you can go over as much as you want and not cause any nute burn. I'm not sure what the effects of extreme use (like 10x the rec. dose) would be but I know a little over the recommended does will not hurt the plants. I think the doses are different because if you add it to a flood table or pump system it will be circulated until your reservoir is ready for a refill. When you feed like I do you only feed for one feeding and reapply ever "2-3 weeks for optimal results" as recommended. I apply ever couple weeks.

I know that coco is "soilless" and considered hydro sometimes but it is still a "potted plant" technically and GW gives different solution rates for "soil and potted plants" so I'm just following their instructions. I've been using it for a couple years now and have had good results with it by just following the instructions on the label.

intenseneal said:

Here is how I clone and so far I have almost a 100% survival rate.
Cut clones from plant. Trim extra leaves and stem. Dip end of stem in cloning gel. Place clone cutting into plug and place plug into cloning dome. Leave them for 10 tens and dont even look at them. I have a T5 24W light over my clones and that is it. Cloning is very easy to do and to do right.

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I'm with you. If it's not broke don't fix it. I guess my curiosity is killing me though and I'm wondering if I can find that perfect combo that will be just a little bit better than before. What you described is about the same thing I've always done aside from some extra steps with rockwool prep and shaving some of the stem. I plan to do some tests with shaved stems, plain cut stems, stems split down the middle, and stems that are shaved and split. Most of the mediums, hormones, and other products I am going to test I have had success with in the past. I never documented results and did side by side controlled tests before though. I've switched products before and have noticed better results but for all I know that could be from changing variables like mother health, mother nutes, temps, lighting, methods, medium, etc. These tests will be done side by side with identical conditions and different variables so the results should prove much more accurate than testing a method this round and then another next round and comparing.

ROUND 1

I am going to take the first round of clones today to use as my control test. They will be done using the method I've been sticking to over the last few years. I've had solid 100% rounds a lot of the time and as low as 75% survival rates with the method. The lower survival rates are mostly due to my negligence and mold (caused by negligence and being sloppy) in a couple cases.

Test
Last night I took 20 cuttings to use in a mini side test. I took 5 mother plants into my cloning area. I then took 4 cups and filled each with 250ml of water. 1 cup got a dosage of hormex, another a dose of thrive alive b-1, another a dose of rhizotonic, and one cup of straight water. I made one cutting from each plant for each cup of solution making sure that each cut from each plant was nearly identical as far as length and node spacing. All cuts were taking from the very top shoots of each plant too. I heard that higher and lower cuttings root differently so I wanted to take them from the same height and be as identical as possible. The cuttings have been sitting overnight in each solution.

My reason for this is because when I have cloned in the past I have made the cuts and left them sitting in a cup of water overnight and sometimes up to a week. When I would be ready to dip and plant them in a medium I would made a fresh cut below a node and do my normal process and the clones would root as normal. I'm interested to see if there is any benefit in cutting them and letting them sit in water overnight before placing them into the rooting medium. Just to take it a step further I decided to use those three different solutions and one with just water.

Again, this is all for fun and learning. If you grab growing books by different respected growers in the world you will find 1001 contradictions between authors but they all say that their methods are the best. I have read the books and tried different methods and they do all work for the most part. I've never really done a proper controlled experiment with clones or buds before so here's my chance to give it a go. It's just a shame that these clones will never grow up to be buds.

The first round of cuts have been taken. Here's the details...

Medium: Rockwool
Rockwool Presoak: 15ml Dutchmaster A&B, 15ml Thrive Alive B-1, 10ml Rhizotonic total for 5 gallons
Rooting Hormone/s: Clonex (primary), Hormex (test)
Cutting Method/s: 45 degree cut +shaved stem, 45 degree cut +split stem
Lighting: T8 flourescents

TRAY 1
5 cuts, cut and soaked overnight in Thrive Alive solution, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex
5 cuts, cut and soaked overnight in Rhizotonic solution, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex
5 cuts, cut and soaked overnight in Hormex solution, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex
5 cuts, cut and soaked overnight in pure water, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex
10 cuts, stems scraped, dipped in pure Hormex for 1 minute
10 cuts, stems split, dipped in pure Hormex for 1 minute

TRAY 2
40 cuts, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex

TRAY 3
40 cuts, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex

TRAY 4
30 cuts, stems scraped, dipped in Clonex

They are under florescents now in 10x20" trays with humidity domes with the vents closed, no heat pads. The ambient room temp is 74 right now. It's only been about 15 minutes since the lights have been added to the trays. They are T8 flouros that are sitting directly on top of the domes. There's a good amount of humidity built up already in the domes.

I presoaked 20 cuttings last night in Rhizo, Thrive Alive, Hormex, and just water to see if there is any effect on the final outcome. Today when I took my clones, the ones that had been cut and soaking since the night before were all looking good except the Hormex did something strange. The hormex cuts leaves closed up almost like a venus fly trap does when it catches food. They are all still lush green but that's to be expected after only a day.

I'll try to take some pics to post later tomorrow/today technically since it's 5am. It took a while to take 150 cuttings and it's bedtime for me. I'll do my best to get some pics posted later. I planned to document the cutting techniques but it would have been too much of a hassle with so much work on my hands already. I'll try to take some throw away cuttings with pics in the future to visually demonstrate my process.

goodnight! (at 5am)

THIS IS AN OLD THREAD but I came across it reading up on cloning experiments. I have to say, those totally dont look like SFV OG! I hope everything came out all right for you...

i take clones 3 times a year. i don't expend much energy or time on them. i cut the clone, scrape the branch a bit, trim the leaves, add to clone solution, put in rockwool cube.

"The less clones per tray the better IMO"


this time around i had 3 clone trays. i lost 6 clones in the 2 full trays (not sure why, but i take more clones than i need for just this reason). i would be embarrassed to show what most of those clones looked like. they are doing fine now but many of them looked poorly by the time they rooted. i didn't lose any in the 1/2 full one and they were a lot healthier looking.


the trays are usually full so i'll have to try the 1/2 full tray again to see if indeed it's a better environment. i think it would be better but it might be better than i thought.

Oasis is not spongy, not like RRs or RW. I dunno, it feels like foam. Well, I think thats what it is, a florists revised foam. It wicks up beautifully, HOWEVER, once the babies root I have a hella time keeping them moist (not wet, fine line) I am batting 48-49 babies every tray these days but like I said, you have to be diligent with the watering of Oasis. I lost a whole tray (rooted) because I gotr home from work 3 hours late one day (they were dipped in the AM) so I want to check out other mediums.
Anyways, here is what I do, but like I said Im always up for bigger better faster stronger lmao...
My strains- OG, GDP, GSC, BD, AC, TW
Slotted tray within a tray (10x20)
Slotted tray with about 1" perlite (I soak the oasis n perlite in 6.0 for about 10 min, then tilt the tray holding the edges of oasis so it wont fall out and let the water drain out completely till it drips no more)
Oasis x50 per (I cut apart with knife in tray wet after soaking for ease of checking individuals) I use either the "stock hole" and push medium around the stem, or make my own with toothpick depends on size of babies stem. I also push the baby in just slightly maybe like 1/4 inch.
Humidity dome, heat mat, thermostat for mat (I just leave the windows open on the dome always, check for water weight after about 3 days, dome off in 7 ish)
Dip n Grow or root burst Supernatural, B1 for tray soak
Pure Blend in water dip AFTER rooting
I cut like everybody else n use 5.5 for sticking clones in.
I have roots 7 days and sometimes some will take 2 weeks. Any longer, they are sent to the corner for time-out hahaha
I hope you have a SUCCESSFUL experiment! Please keep us informed!
PS n BTW, I did try Hormex (powder not liquid) once. My others were better, however, I think DnG has something like 1.0 of the but acid and Supernat has .8. The Hormex powder I bought had only I think .10.

babymama said:

THIS IS AN OLD THREAD but I came across it reading up on cloning experiments. I have to say, those totally dont look like SFV OG! I hope everything came out all right for you...

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Not tool old, lol. I only made this thread 5 days ago. They're for sure the SFV. These new mothers were created from clones from my old mom so I know they're the same as before. Everything seems to have turned out all right so far but at this stage it's still too early to tell.

babymama said:

Oasis is not spongy, not like RRs or RW. I dunno, it feels like foam. Well, I think thats what it is, a florists revised foam. It wicks up beautifully, HOWEVER, once the babies root I have a hella time keeping them moist (not wet, fine line) I am batting 48-49 babies every tray these days but like I said, you have to be diligent with the watering of Oasis. I lost a whole tray (rooted) because I gotr home from work 3 hours late one day (they were dipped in the AM) so I want to check out other mediums.

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Thanks for the input. I definitely won't be trying Oasis cubes now. On occasion I have to be out of town for up to a week at a time. Rockwool I can leave for 10 days and comfortable knowing that they won't be dried out. However, leaving them for that long without being able to check them always makes me worry and hope they haven't developed any mold. From time to time clones will show some signs of mold. I immediately remove them from the trays and the rest of the clones are fine. I learned to remove them immediately the hard way. A long way back I had some clones that started to mold due to the clones being so crowded in the tray. I neglected to remove them and within 2 days the mold had spread to about 50% of the clones in my tray. Won't make that mistake again.

Any results? Thank you.

nomaninsf said:

Not tool old, lol. I only made this thread 5 days ago. They're for sure the SFV. These new mothers were created from clones from my old mom so I know they're the same as before. Everything seems to have turned out all right so far but at this stage it's still too early to tell.



Thanks for the input. I definitely won't be trying Oasis cubes now. On occasion I have to be out of town for up to a week at a time. Rockwool I can leave for 10 days and comfortable knowing that they won't be dried out. However, leaving them for that long without being able to check them always makes me worry and hope they haven't developed any mold. From time to time clones will show some signs of mold. I immediately remove them from the trays and the rest of the clones are fine. I learned to remove them immediately the hard way. A long way back I had some clones that started to mold due to the clones being so crowded in the tray. I neglected to remove them and within 2 days the mold had spread to about 50% of the clones in my tray. Won't make that mistake again.

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This thread ended on a thriller. Hope you're still on this forum. Would love an update on your research. I've done a small group testing between clonex and hormex as well and wanted to compare results.

Romis said:

This thread ended on a thriller.

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Updated the thread, latest version