Closed loop pro's con's from EXPERIENCED growers only!

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
You should have put this in the advanced area and been a bit more clear about your first post. You are screwed because 99.99% of us will have no experience in that area, so if you are lucky someone who knows what they are talking about from experience will pop up come page 14 of this thread, lol. How are you supplementing O2? From below somehow to supply to roots?
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
You should have put this in the advanced area and been a bit more clear about your first post. You are screwed because 99.99% of us will have no experience in that area, so if you are lucky someone who knows what they are talking about from experience will pop up come page 14 of this thread, lol. How are you supplementing O2? From below somehow to supply to roots?
I am manually adding 02 with oxygen tanks and regs,the same way I have done c02. I have never done it but I think it will be practically the same. I think your definitely right about where I posted this. Getting adequate oxygen to the root zone has really been on my mind and you make a great point with that ? . I was thinking of running lines through the soil that will expel but info on the amount is a mystery to me also I pondered just adding o2 to the water but the effectiveness is in question. I'm at the ground floor with this design and I want to do it the best way possible. I found some Info on the net http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3368.html. I didn't know it was more commonly referred to as a "cge" and I kept calling it a "sealed Room" and I think that threw people off, ignorance on my part.
 

AlecTheGardener

Well-Known Member
I am manually adding 02 with oxygen tanks and regs,the same way I have done c02. I have never done it but I think it will be practically the same. I think your definitely right about where I posted this. Getting adequate oxygen to the root zone has really been on my mind and you make a great point with that ? . I was thinking of running lines through the soil that will expel but info on the amount is a mystery to me also I pondered just adding o2 to the water but the effectiveness is in question. I'm at the ground floor with this design and I want to do it the best way possible. I found some Info on the net http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3368.html. I didn't know it was more commonly referred to as a "cge" and I kept calling it a "sealed Room" and I think that threw people off, ignorance on my part.
Same thing friend, a sealed room is also a closed growing environment.

Why are you thinking you need any sort of O2 supplementation? Your plants exhale that after they process the CO2 you WILL BE SUPPLEMENTING with.
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
Same thing friend, a sealed room is also a closed growing environment.

Why are you thinking you need any sort of O2 supplementation? Your plants exhale that after they process the CO2 you WILL BE SUPPLEMENTING with.
I don't think they will exhale nearly enough for their own Root zone and for the gardener to breath. I'm going to maintain around 20% oxygen or 210 ppm at all times. keep in mind if the plants do keep the room at that level then I wont have to refill my tank because it will only supplement below 210ppm. I already own everything I need for the setup so if it turns out that I don't need it, I'll just save some cash on refilling my tank.
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Any reason you are sticking to soil? Would be really easy to handle where to dump the O2 in hydro. Check levels in air, bubble into water when levels are low, also bubble normal air at all times into the water.
 

justugh

Well-Known Member
I don't think they will exhale nearly enough for their own Root zone and for the gardener to breath. I'm going to maintain around 20% oxygen or 210 ppm at all times. keep in mind if the plants do keep the room at that level then I wont have to refill my tank because it will only supplement below 210ppm. I already own everything I need for the setup so if it turns out that I don't need it, I'll just save some cash on refilling my tank.
dumb me ,,,,,,,what about section off the roots (they grow tho a tarp the tarp would make 2nd area where u can supply O2 the extra pressure will make it go tho the slits )

this way u can supply your CO2 and your O2 ....later u can build a box system sealing it off proper then just use a simple sheet of poly wrap to close the tops off (can replace them every time) ....this would also allow u to control that area more effectively ..........the water would be a simple tube system hooked to a drip ring u can pour the feed down then flush out the tube and dripper with a pint of water cap the tube (unless u want O2 to comes out the tube)
 

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
210 ppm?? Co2 is 350 or so ppm and it's only 1/3 of 1% of our environment. You mean 210.000 ppm. Or 21%. You can get a O2 sensor control unit at science supply stores. 23% O2 will increase growth and vigor. With higher O2 you can go a little higher on co2. You need to purge the room twice a day. At lights on and lights off. A dehumidifier twice as big as before. If your old one was on more then off, three times. Clean filter weekly. I don't know about your exact setup, but,,,, I do know sealed room and O2 enrichment..
After purging at lights out to lower co2 don't stop O2. Keep O2 at 23%. Weed uses O2 in the dark. The more root growth at night, the more the plant has to catch up to. And they do catch up. Once you get good at 23, go to 25%. Increase co2 again. Different strains respond differently. Some you can push this far and others will stumble. Watch and adjust. With more growth you need to water more. Which is why more dehumidifiers. Also the mass moisture on the ground. Might want to put watering lines deep so surface of soil isn't increasing moisture in room.
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
Any reason you are sticking to soil? Would be really easy to handle where to dump the O2 in hydro. Check levels in air, bubble into water when levels are low, also bubble normal air at all times into the water.
Yea, I used air babblers in my res before I have a few, going soil because I like the results of finished product better. I dont want to constantly fiddle with ec and ph changes or worry about salt buildup and 50 gallons a day was just driving me nuts nutes get costly... I know I'll produce less, but Iv'e done both and just prefer soil.
 

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
I noticed that you didn't ask any specific question. Are you waiting for someone to come along and take you by the hand? I'll get you off to a good start by mentioning that you don't need to supplement with O2. The respiration of the plants will suffice. You're not going to effect the O2 concentration by adding CO2. O2 makes up approx. 19% of our atmosphere or 190,000 ppm. CO2 supplementation is around 1500 ppm. One thing off of your checklist.
 

jcommerce

Well-Known Member
I have done hydro sog under 4 600 watts yeild a little over 2 lbs. I have done scrog soil 2 plants under 1 1000 yield a little under 1lb. I have done auto's in soil under t5 abt oz per plant. I have done 5 outdoor soil 6 foot plants over lb per but lost due to but rot. I have done hydro 1 plant per 1 1000 with 14 1000w lights over 1lb per plant. I have done ALOT of growing! I have never done a closed room where no fresh air is coming in and no used air going out. This time things are totally different. Im growing with the sun but in a wallipini or pit greenhouse and I want to manually add c02 and 02 I am flowering at 18" and giving 3foot spacing. Manicure will be top at every 4th node and lolipop. grow space is 30x20. Air conditioner and dehumidifier for climate/RH control. Grow medium Soil. Im looking for expert advice from EXPERIENCED closed loop growers. any questions just ask. Thanx in advance!
Not a greenhouse, but check my 8000 watt sealed room in link in my signature below. Several videos. Maybe it will provide some help or give you an idea or two. Good luck!
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
210 ppm?? Co2 is 350 or so ppm and it's only 1/3 of 1% of our environment. You mean 210.000 ppm. Or 21%. You can get a O2 sensor control unit at science supply stores. 23% O2 will increase growth and vigor. With higher O2 you can go a little higher on co2. You need to purge the room twice a day. At lights on and lights off. A dehumidifier twice as big as before. If your old one was on more then off, three times. Clean filter weekly. I don't know about your exact setup, but,,,, I do know sealed room and O2 enrichment..
After purging at lights out to lower co2 don't stop O2. Keep O2 at 23%. Weed uses O2 in the dark. The more root growth at night, the more the plant has to catch up to. And they do catch up. Once you get good at 23, go to 25%. Increase co2 again. Different strains respond differently. Some you can push this far and others will stumble. Watch and adjust. With more growth you need to water more. Which is why more dehumidifiers. Also the mass moisture on the ground. Might want to put watering lines deep so surface of soil isn't increasing moisture in room.
Correct 210,000, I have a few 02 sensors from my tunneling days. I appreciate the useful advice! Yea I'll have to get a bigger dehumidifier for sure. Im using soaker lines so I can put them in a little deeper, great idea. thanx alot.
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
I noticed that you didn't ask any specific question. Are you waiting for someone to come along and take you by the hand? I'll get you off to a good start by mentioning that you don't need to supplement with O2. The respiration of the plants will suffice. You're not going to effect the O2 concentration by adding CO2. O2 makes up approx. 19% of our atmosphere or 190,000 ppm. CO2 supplementation is around 1500 ppm. One thing off of your checklist.
Id hope your right but putting in o2 anyway. I don't need anyone to take me by the hand but if someone has experience doing something I've never done they can chime in to say hey watch out for this like someone gave a helpful hint about humidity that saves me the headache of after the fact kind of work ya know?
For example, if you were pretty mechanically inclined and you were about to change a fuel pump and someone who's dun it says hey man don't forget push lock disconnects... they just saved you some time fuel and headache on something you could of got done yourself but now just a tad easier... What is not helpful is when another person chimes in to tell you how to charge your battery, there's allot of that on riu.
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
Not a greenhouse, but check my 8000 watt sealed room in link in my signature below. Several videos. Maybe it will provide some help or give you an idea or two. Good luck!
Pretty nice setup man, your using one heel ova pump! how's that min split working out? I had a 12x24 and ended up using a 5 ton unit because I didn't think a mini split would quite get it, but I was also doing more 6,000 more wats. I think your plant layout per light was a pretty well calculated decision. I did one per light and trimming after working a ten a hour day was killing me! I think it would of been a bit easier with your layout.
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
dumb me ,,,,,,,what about section off the roots (they grow tho a tarp the tarp would make 2nd area where u can supply O2 the extra pressure will make it go tho the slits )

this way u can supply your CO2 and your O2 ....later u can build a box system sealing it off proper then just use a simple sheet of poly wrap to close the tops off (can replace them every time) ....this would also allow u to control that area more effectively ..........the water would be a simple tube system hooked to a drip ring u can pour the feed down then flush out the tube and dripper with a pint of water cap the tube (unless u want O2 to comes out the tube)
well any roots leave the grow zone will dry out and die so I dont think that will work but I like the way you're thinking. Problem solver mentality.
 

Joedank

Well-Known Member
its easy i ran a 20x10 sealed with 8k for years 15000btu unit and a dehuey.
best mod i added was a inline hot water heater for the co2 enriching
 

cr250cra1

Active Member
I figured it wouldn't be too difficult Im not stumped or anything. I started growing and continually got better and went bigger I've tried ,different growing styles, strains and nutes. I learned that there's more than one way to skin a cat, it depends on the tools you have available and the size of the cat. Most of what I have learned has been in hindsight and all I'm really trying to do is mitigate some of that.
 

jcommerce

Well-Known Member
Pretty nice setup man, your using one heel ova pump! how's that min split working out? I had a 12x24 and ended up using a 5 ton unit because I didn't think a mini split would quite get it, but I was also doing more 6,000 more wats. I think your plant layout per light was a pretty well calculated decision. I did one per light and trimming after working a ten a hour day was killing me! I think it would of been a bit easier with your layout.
Thank you. The mini-split is more than sufficient. With outdoor temps in the 50s at night, even in the summer, we run out lights 9pm - 9am most of the time. This drastically reduces the need for cooling and our mini-split automatically throttles itself as needed. Much of the time it simply doesn't run since we're running CO2 and we want the temps to be in the low 80s. Funny enough, the heater on the mini-split is occasionally running in the winter months, even with 8000k and CO2 burner (being a sealed room, the burner only runs for a few minutes at a time...we have it set to run at 1200 ppm and shut off at 1500 ppm).
 
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