So I have heard that in an air tight area you can gauge the amount of time to add co2 and get close to the hight co2 ppm's without necessarily having a monitor to know exactly the level? I have also heard that in that size area the scuba sized tanks, keeping the co2 at around 1200ppm will last 2 or so months. Sort of trying to figure the best way. I know you can use a propane unit but that puts out heat and water and you need a water chiller for a water cooled unit so just trying to figure out what to do? Any help is great.. Thanks.
Co2 in an 8x12' area?
- Thread starter tatamama
- Start date
NwSticKyicky
Member
That's what I do! My two rooms together run off one twenty lb. tank for about three weeks, and only needs to pump out about 1 cubic foot an hour to keep both rooms right about 1600ppm. 1500 is optimum, I do a bit more just to make sure. Makes your plants go insane!
So where to buy the tank/reg? Is that all one would need and how do you turn it on and off I mean do you put it on a timer and just let it run for some number of mins every so often or what? I was hoping to get away without a moniter but not sure that is good or bad? Does that mean your 20lb tank will last 3 weeks at your rate of use? Have thought about the generators types but in the end that makes more water vapor to deal with, carbon monoxide and lots and lots of extra heat. I have two 1k hps lamps... Thanks.
NwSticKyicky
Member
Ya for your sized room it would probably be right around the same amount released on a constant when the lights are on. It also depends how air tight your room is and how much air is circulating regularly. I use air cooled hoods and an extraction fan for my thousand watt with an intake in the lower corner of the room. The Co2 seems to sit in the room for quite a while even with 500cfm being replaced. The regulator is a bit expensive, like 150$ for a nice one, but mine has an electric timer to turn off with the lights. There's also glass tube tester kits that can test it for about 4$ a pop. These ate one time use but you should be able to figure out how much to pump out with like three or four tests. Just adjust it to get your readings as close to 1500ppm as possible. A little extra won't hurt though. I get my tanks refilled at the local hydro store. Welding shops may be able to hook you up also.
Well not sure I understand. You think it is possible to use a 20lb tank and just have it come on for how long every how long so to ask.. Like on a timer and it will come on for a few minutes every hour or so? Not really sure. I have seen the testers too. Wonder how long a tank will last to do the job well.. Say like the 20lb tank. Also with a 65 day flowering strain I had a forest last grow. I am hoping with more co2 I can trim them up into very single lollipop style colas and get good results with less forest work.. Will they finish in less time than normal with added co2?? Would like to know where to buy and what cost to expect for a tank and reg... Is that all I will need?? Should I go with a bigger tank and if so size? ect... Don't really know what I need as far as a regulator that will be able to come on and off with a timer if that is doable...?
tet1953
Well-Known Member
I recently posted my CO2 solution using a propane lantern. I believe the lantern is the least heat intensive propane solution at least. My room is approx 12x12x7. I use a Coleman 2-mantle lantern and instead of the disposable bottles I have a hose that connects to a grill sized tank. I am able to see the ppm because I purchased a rather expensive CO2 monitor.
With no propane, the room is about 640 ppm (door open). Each day, I simply turn the lantern on at half open for about a half hour. It quickly gets up to over 1000 and it will steadily climb to about 1700 if I let it. But, when it gets to about 1200 I turn down the lantern a bit and it will stay right where I want it. I do have to tinker a little bit each day, not like I can mark a spot exactly. I figure atmospheric conditions can affect it a little. I can get it almost exactly where I want it pretty easily though, and once it is tuned it it will stay there all day. Puts out almost no heat, and of course the light is no problem since you don't need the CO2 during dark cycle.
I started with a less than full grill tank (20 lb?) and use it 12 hrs/day. It's been over 3 weeks now and going strong. This solution works really well for me, and I have observed a huge difference in production since I started using it.
With no propane, the room is about 640 ppm (door open). Each day, I simply turn the lantern on at half open for about a half hour. It quickly gets up to over 1000 and it will steadily climb to about 1700 if I let it. But, when it gets to about 1200 I turn down the lantern a bit and it will stay right where I want it. I do have to tinker a little bit each day, not like I can mark a spot exactly. I figure atmospheric conditions can affect it a little. I can get it almost exactly where I want it pretty easily though, and once it is tuned it it will stay there all day. Puts out almost no heat, and of course the light is no problem since you don't need the CO2 during dark cycle.
I started with a less than full grill tank (20 lb?) and use it 12 hrs/day. It's been over 3 weeks now and going strong. This solution works really well for me, and I have observed a huge difference in production since I started using it.
That is the size I have. Want to now know how what to buy to get the best ppm that will not cause heat, humidity, fire ect for the best $? A 20lb tank? with a regulator and what kind of regulator? are they all the same? do they all have the ability to be on a timer ect.. Thanks... Ps. The math I understand but how long will a tank last ect... Will I need with this size a refill a lot, a little, twice a month one time in two months???????
ScrogThis
Active Member
Cheap, simple, safe is just a 20lb CO2 bottle with regulator and solenoid valve attached to a timer. I'll refrain from recommending a brand but you're looking at roughly $150-$250 for the setup, less if you can find it used. Google, eBay, CraigsList are great places to start.
That will depend on the level of enrichment you choose (how much CO2 you choose to add to your environment and will vary from person to person, setup to setup) as well as your ventilation and how well sealed your environment is. Based on the math you would be using approximately 1/7th of a pound to add 1500ppm to your environment, figure out how much you want to add (1500ppm is just an example), how often and how long it's going to stay in there based on your ventilation, if you choose to shut if off during application of the CO2 or not and how much effort you want to put into sealing your room. I'm afraid you'll need to decide what you want to do then apply the math to achieve it, happy to help but I can't decide those things for you.
In a very tight room how long once you get it up to 1500 will it last in the room with around 28 single cola type plants.? Looks like if it would last you would use up a bottle in about a month but saw a guys that said he goes through one in a week with 4k light.. Still trying to figure best method and seems like I can't.. if you use a water cooled propane unit won't you need a chiller for some water rez? and how big a rez would that be anyway?? those put out lots of water is seems into the air so since my a/c/dehumidifier is a piece of shit I would need another stand alone dehumid unit as well. Plus the heat would be ok in the winter but not in the summer so help still in what to do thanks??
NwSticKyicky
Member
mine stays on while the lights are on. the whole time.
mr.smileyface
Well-Known Member
i use a propane burner in a 10x10. you just need enough btu's to cool it all off.
ScrogThis
Active Member
That's a good question unfortunately I have yet to find anyone that can answer it. The closest I have been able to come is an "average rate of consumption" that I extrapolated to approximately .00025 lbs of CO2 per hour per square foot of plants. That will vary somewhat with stage of growth and temperature hope that helps.
edit: will you be shutting off your ventilation while you deliver CO2 and how many times / day do you intend to inject it?
Ok you use a lantern with mantles. Those burn yellow to produce light. While they may give off co2 they also from what I have read, give off lots of co, monoxide. This would not be good from what I know of that gas.. So tell me how you test your co2 and if a room is sealed the co, again not co2, would build up and kill life..
Kind of burner? Water cooled? how much heat do they produce. I have two 1k hps lights without hoods because of hight issues. Not a problem so far with my a/c unit but with even more heat I might have an issue. The water cooled ones I still don't understand completely either. I mean what size water rez's do they require and does not the water recirculate and heat up in the rez and then have to have a chiller unit?? How long does your unit stay on per hour lets say if you know? Timed? I know water cooled ones come on only when the water is running so can be set on timer... Confusing and want to do it the right way.. I am guessing I will need a new stand alone dehumid unit anyway so I am guessing that will solve the propane units water in air production on the humidity.. Thanks...
I have a big carbon filter, big exhaust fan, great ventilation but I intend to cover vents during light times and have filter venting in room during those times and change it over at night to fresh air.. I watch my room all the time.. My hobby and have the time.. Want to know on average how long a tank will last and if I could just figure that way out... But seems for the money tanks are a good or best way. Just the amount of time one will last is still my question if I can use one without a monitor for a while at least.. I know the math looks like a 20lb would seem to last around 30 days but still working on that math... My room is not a perfect seal but damn close for a shed. It sucks in hard when the filter is running and you crack the door, means a negative volume but hard with screened passive openings to get unobstucted flow that is enough. I mean I have three big holes and they suck huge amounts of air but when you put the panty hose over them it really reduces the air coming in but better that than the white flies I got from leaving them open for just two days.. I had to kill everything to get rid of those bastards.. Took clones, cleaned them and then moved the out and took em down once and for all.. Now I want co2 so I don't have a forest and can yield with smaller single colas and I know I can keep them close together and use more of my stations with the co2.. I have like 55 holes in an NFT tube set up but can only grow around 25 plants and that is really a bit to much to deal with.. Got 30oz's last grow that way with so many popcorn buds it took way to much time to trim but they are dank so you had to... Thanks. Sorry if I am all over the place I am a bit out of it.. No not high just beat man.. Thanks again....
venacular
Well-Known Member
Try the tool below. Buy a regulator and flow meter. I bought mine on ebay for about $115. I bought a 20# tank from my local carbonic shop for about $120, it was new and full. Look for Airgas (name brand store in USA) or places that sell fire extinguishers. Lastly use the tool at the link to calculate flow. Set flow meter and your set. Good luck
http://www.hydrofarm.com/co2calc.php
http://www.hydrofarm.com/co2calc.php
ScrogThis
Active Member
good link venacular!
The knowledge base article is generally helpful though specifics are somewhat suspect due to inaccuracies contained in the text. Plants are not comprised of 80-90 percent carbon (source: University of Utah - Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon, Changes in percentage organic carbon content during ontogeny - P. Hadley & D.R. Causton). Current global average atmospheric CO2 is ~387ppm for October 2010 as reported by the Mauna Loa Observatory not 300ppm as reported in the KB article. The article also states "that the plants will deplete the available CO2 supply by 100 PPM per hour", though I have been unable to locate any source to confirm that statement I will attempt to verify it in my research.
I believe the calculator will provide a workable estimate for flow rate though it is unclear to me how the assumption that CO2 rates would normalize in 180 minutes is arrived at (granting the 100ppm/plant depletion) as the number of plants assumed is not disclosed. Obviously a 12" plant in veg will consume less than a fully mature plant.
Not trying to be pedantic, one of the biggest hurdles to gaining knowledge is misinformation; data get quoted never checked then repeated creating a greater challenge to dispelling the "fact".
@ tatamama - sealed 8' x 12' x 8' room, 28 plants, adding 1300ppm 4X /day a 20lb tank should last roughly 4-5 weeks. I'll double-check the math in the morning when I'm a bit less medicated. Hope that helps.
The knowledge base article is generally helpful though specifics are somewhat suspect due to inaccuracies contained in the text. Plants are not comprised of 80-90 percent carbon (source: University of Utah - Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon, Changes in percentage organic carbon content during ontogeny - P. Hadley & D.R. Causton). Current global average atmospheric CO2 is ~387ppm for October 2010 as reported by the Mauna Loa Observatory not 300ppm as reported in the KB article. The article also states "that the plants will deplete the available CO2 supply by 100 PPM per hour", though I have been unable to locate any source to confirm that statement I will attempt to verify it in my research.
I believe the calculator will provide a workable estimate for flow rate though it is unclear to me how the assumption that CO2 rates would normalize in 180 minutes is arrived at (granting the 100ppm/plant depletion) as the number of plants assumed is not disclosed. Obviously a 12" plant in veg will consume less than a fully mature plant.
Not trying to be pedantic, one of the biggest hurdles to gaining knowledge is misinformation; data get quoted never checked then repeated creating a greater challenge to dispelling the "fact".
@ tatamama - sealed 8' x 12' x 8' room, 28 plants, adding 1300ppm 4X /day a 20lb tank should last roughly 4-5 weeks. I'll double-check the math in the morning when I'm a bit less medicated. Hope that helps.
mr.smileyface
Well-Known Member
Its not water cooled. Its not on 24/7. If you dont have enough btu's you can either get hooded reflectors or have an outtake on a thermostat. You need a good controller for your co2 burner. In a sealed room you need about 4500 btu's per light with the burner. In hoods you need about 3500cfm.
I dont use an outtake in my room because i have enough btu's to cool 4 1000watts in cooltubes. But if i didnt have enough btu's i would have my outtake on a thermostat. You will burn more co2 tho.
Your better off getting more btu's bro. Make sure your dehums are empty at night time.
Dehums tend to push out more heat than wanted so that outtake on a thermostat is looking pretty good for the temp control. It will save you power.
Your a/c should have a built in thermostat but it tends to draw power that you wouldnt need to draw at night time. Make sure you have a back draft for your outtakes. Also get more stand up fans. good luck