Coco 3 week old in trouble

zafabafa · May 2, 2018

Hi guys,

First post and im in trouble.

Im doing a grow in coco, white widow autofem.

They are 3 weeks old now, and after a blast off in the first week they are now slowly dying from the bottom up.

First thought overwatering, then underwatering and now im thinking its nitrogen deficiency.

They lower leaves are paper thin, yellowing and even going brown and crusty now.

The top is doing well, slightly lime green and growing slowly (Had a terrible week here in Holland weather wise).

Giving them Cana A+B, Calmag, Power roots and enzym.

My cats ate some of the leaves 1,5 week ago. Thats why some look weird and cut.

Here are some pics,

Any thoughts?

Viceman666 · May 2, 2018

Add some airflow it will help build up stronger stem.. whats your humidity like? Plant in veg prefer high humidity for better growth.. and yes they look light green could be a nitrogen deficiency.. as nitrogen will kill lower leaves first as it pushed the nitrogen to new growth

Roger A. Shrubber · May 2, 2018

i would repot those in deeper pots, and bury them to just below the bottom set of leaves. looks like you're light is too far away, and they've been stretching for it.
i would feed them a little more. not more often, make sure they get a chance to dry out between waterings, just a little more nutes per watering.
you need a ph meter in coco, get one if you don't have one, and ph your nutes to 6.1 going in.

LEDandCoffee · May 2, 2018

What is your EC/PPM of feed?

Feed pH?

How often are you watering?

You essentially cannot overwater in coco. The only thing you have to worry about is keeping it wet, letting it dry out = pH issues galore.

Imo, you need to up your feed strength, and feed 2x a day to runoff.

LEDandCoffee · May 2, 2018

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i would repot those in deeper pots, and bury them to just below the bottom set of leaves. looks like you're light is too far away, and they've been stretching for it.
i would feed them a little more. not more often, make sure they get a chance to dry out between waterings, just a little more nutes per watering.
you need a ph meter in coco, get one if you don't have one, and ph your nutes to 6.1 going in.

Uh, have you ever grown in coco?

Those pots are fine for a plant that size.

You DO NOT want to let it dry out in between waterings.

pH your nutes to 5.8

Roger A. Shrubber · May 2, 2018

yes, i've grown in coco for a long time, and get good results. and i get them at ph 6.1. coco is NOT hydro, it a hybred, and if you treat it like hydro, you'll pay for it.
you can keep coco wet at all times, after you've gotten some experience at it, you can also treat it more like soil, and let it dry out, partially, between waterings, especially with young plants that need a chance to develop roots.
and if you would have looked at what you read, i said DEEPER pots, so he could bury the stretched stalks......
don't assume your way is the only way, or even the best way.....

LEDandCoffee · May 2, 2018

Roger A. Shrubber said:
yes, i've grown in coco for a long time, and get good results. and i get them at ph 6.1. coco is NOT hydro, it a hybred, and if you treat it like hydro, you'll pay for it.
you can keep coco wet at all times, after you've gotten some experience at it, you can also treat it more like soil, and let it dry out, partially, between waterings, especially with young plants that need a chance to develop roots.
and if you would have looked at what you read, i said DEEPER pots, so he could bury the stretched stalks......
don't assume your way is the only way, or even the best way.....

So, letting it dry out and building up salts throwing your coco pH all over is the key to success huh? Makes sense.

Or, you could water as much as possible and bring as much oxygen to the root zone as possible. But, that sounds silly. Who wants bigger plants anyways

Sorry, but I automatically discredit anyone that tells people to let coco dry out.

Roger A. Shrubber · May 2, 2018

i could care less what you do. i've done this for quite a while, and it works. you take what you've been told and don't experiment, don't try new things, rely on what people have told you....i take what people have told me, and start trying new things. try it, you might like it.....

LEDandCoffee · May 2, 2018

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i could care less what you do. i've done this for quite a while, and it works. you take what you've been told and don't experiment, don't try new things, rely on what people have told you....i take what people have told me, and start trying new things. try it, you might like it.....

I've tried your whole let it dry out some between waterings.

Next run I tried feeding 8x a day.

Guess which one went exponentially better?

Roger A. Shrubber · May 2, 2018

i'm not going to argue with you. he's let the plants stretch too much, and they don't have enough roots. that's why i said rebury it deeper, and let the medium dry out a little between waterings, the roots need some gentle treatment to get themselves established. once the plants start growing vigorously again, you can start to water them more often. it's also why i said feed slightly more, the roots don't need to be cooking in heavy nute solution till they get established. thats why i gave the advice i gave, and i stand by it, and will stand by it, no matter what you say

LEDandCoffee · May 2, 2018

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i'm not going to argue with you. he's let the plants stretch too much, and they don't have enough roots. that's why i said rebury it deeper, and let the medium dry out a little between waterings, the roots need some gentle treatment to get themselves established. once the plants start growing vigorously again, you can start to water them more often. it's also why i said feed slightly more, the roots don't need to be cooking in heavy nute solution till they get established. thats why i gave the advice i gave, and i stand by it, and will stand by it, no matter what you say

"Fuck pH issues. Do what I say."

jarvild · May 2, 2018

LEDandCoffee said:
"Fuck pH issues. Do what I say."

Listen your wrong on all counts here. I've been almost a strictly coir grower for 10 years now and been growing these plants for 40+ years. I run whole flower rotations for 9-10 weeks. In that time my plants might get fed to run-off twice and go through multiple wet/dry cycles without problem.
How many pics do you want me to post up of successful harvest over the last ten years. Here's a few current runs

zafabafa · May 3, 2018

Hi Guus, thanks doe the replies.

Second time in coco, but started previous in nutrient rich soil. Had great succes then.

Problem is im growing outside. No lights.
Had terrible weather 12 degree Celsius and no Sun at all. They were behind glass so inside was 20 degrees and 65% hum.

The coco hardly dries so it's difficult to read how wet they really are. (I weigh them and their weight goes down terribly slow)

I fed them 500-600 ppm with 140 ppm being tap so 350-450 ppm nutrients.

Did this every 3 days at 6.0 ph with good runoff.

They are stretched but I can't help that if the Sun doesn't shine for 10 days. (Netherlands sucks)

I understand I need to water them more, but daily while they are still soaking? I'm scared I'll get root root and bugs.

Probably need to up my nutes if I'm only watering every 2-3 days.

Suggestions?

jarvild · May 3, 2018

Your feeding regimen will depend on your plants size and needs. with the cool temps and lack of sun + high humidity I could see the need for less frequent feeds. What size is the plant and pot they are in?

bobtokes · May 3, 2018

LEDandCoffee said:
Uh, have you ever grown in coco?

Those pots are fine for a plant that size.

You DO NOT want to let it dry out in between waterings.

pH your nutes to 5.8

if you ph at 5.8 constantly you will lock out Mg you should let it drift up to 6.3 at least once a week
if you let the coco dry out completely whilst using nitrate fertilizers (canna A/B) salts will build up on the roots and you will get nute lock outs

the problem with this grow is enviroment and the lack of light

zafabafa · May 3, 2018

jarvild said:
Your feeding regimen will depend on your plants size and needs. with the cool temps and lack of sun + high humidity I could see the need for less frequent feeds. What size is the plant and pot they are in?

They are about 2.75 inch in 1 liter pots.

Just went to check on them. I gave them a feeding on tuesday and now the tips are brown and pointing slightly up. Not all leaves are effected.

I dont get it, its nice and sunny. They are moist and had food. Now they seem to having nute burn? Or sun burn? maybe its even a Potassium def. but thats weird after a feed.

Will post pic soon.

ANC · May 3, 2018

Make a bucket that is larger than your pot. Fill the bucket with nute mix (600 is way too hot).
Dip the pot and let it soak through. Lift it out and catch most of the runoff in the same bucket.
Measure the ppm of the bucket before and after. It will give you an idea how hot your coco is.
If it doesn't go up by more than 100 points, you are doing OK. Else, repeat next time with a slightly lower dose.
If they take long to dry out, dip only the bottom third of the pot after about 3 days... This will suck out the old stale water when you lift it out of the bucket.
It is like a manual ebb and flow. I do it with all my smaller plants.

zafabafa · May 3, 2018

Can't seem to upload the picture :/

Thanks ANC, they are getting 350-450 ppm nutes, thats lower than most advice. I get what you are saying, but I dont think its hot.

This is per liter of water

4/27
A+B: 0,5 mL
Roots: 0,5 mL
Zym: 0,5 mL
CalMag: 0,5 mL

5/1
A+B: 1 mL
Roots: 1 mL
Zym: 1 mL
CalMag: 1 mL

jarvild · May 3, 2018

yes, I'm having problems uploading photos too.
Your only problem is the environment they are in right now.
My veg feeds in coir are less than 450 ppm (0.9 ec). Flower feeds never over 550 ppm (1.1 ec) but that is indoors under artificial lighting not sunlight. Now when run outside in coir my feeds go up about 200 ppm just because the higher light intensity requires more nutrition. So your problem lies in the lack of light while you were still feeding which accumulated build-up over multiple feedings.

zafabafa · May 3, 2018

jarvild said:
yes, I'm having problems uploading photos too.
Your only problem is the environment they are in right now.
My veg feeds in coir are less than 450 ppm (0.9 ec). Flower feeds never over 550 ppm (1.1 ec) but that is indoors under artificial lighting not sunlight. Now when run outside in coir my feeds go up about 200 ppm just because the higher light intensity requires more nutrition. So your problem lies in the lack of light while you were still feeding which accumulated build-up over multiple feedings.

Yes that could be it. I think they died today. I let them sit in the sun for 3-4 hours and they are only getting worse.
The leafs are so thin, like they are begin sucked dry. Brown and yellow getting worse.

Coco 3 week old in trouble

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