Coco Growers Unite!

some batches of bcuzz coco contain toxic levels of salts... you probably got a bunk batch... you could try to just keep rinsing it... are you checking the EC/ppm of the run off?

Canna coco has a much more consistent quality...

jberry said:

some batches of bcuzz coco contain toxic levels of salts... you probably got a bunk batch... you could try to just keep rinsing it... are you checking the EC/ppm of the run off?

Canna coco has a much more consistent quality...

Click to expand...

Yeah I am actually testing the PPM's of my run off. Most are sitting around 16- 18 ppm's. I dont think that is anywhere near toxic levels is it?

EDIT:

I love Canna, but unfortunately nobody around here carries it, and I always find myself in those "need it now" moments.

18 ppm would be fantastic...If its coming out that low, then I assume you are using distilled or RO water and your coco is great or your meter is off?

perlite has a naturally high ph, maybe thats your culprit? but i actually never hear of anyone with that complaint when mixing coco and perlit and i know its a common practice so idk

Okay, check this out. I just flushed about 2 gal of coco and perlite (1/3 perlite) with 12 gal of water pH'd down to 5.4

I checked the ppms and pH along the way and here is what happened:

Run off check 1: pH was 6.8, ppm's were around 500.

Run off check 2: ph was great 5.7! ppms were decent, 80 or so.

Run off check 3: ph went up to 5.9 and ppms were down to around 30.

Run off check 4: ph was back up 6.3 - 6.4 and ppms were at about 20.

Does anybody have any clue as to what in the world is going on?

EDIT:

I calibrate my meters before checking run off etc. All good there.

you slowly washed away the buffers... you should have left it at 5.7ph / 80ppm... thats about as good as it gets.

Tip: Many of the compressed coco blocks that are purchased through gardening centres are (when uncompressed) coco powder. If this is the case, look for varying grades of coco substrate, working from fine to larger fibres and mix them into a single product to increase air porosity within the media.

Perlite
Each particle of perlite consists of tiny air cells that provide for a large surface area. Because of the shape of perlite, large air gaps form between the particles. This means there is plenty of oxygen available to the root system.
Perlite doesn’t compact and because of this maintains an ideal balance of oxygen and water (oxygen moisture ratio).
Perlite is very tolerant to overwatering which makes it very forgiving medium. Because of its nature, perlite allows excess water to drain off and provides an air ratio of approximately 45%.
Perlite, like coco, has thermal insulation qualities, which provides the root zone with a high degree of security against heat.
Perlite is a very cost effective medium. It is about half the price of expanded clay.

Clay Balls/Expanded Clay (e.g. Hydroton) and Coco Substrate
I’ve noticed on internet forums that many growers speak of using expanded clay instead of perlite when working with coco substrate and RTW growing.
Other than this, many growers seemingly use expanded clay at the base of the pots to allow for “better drainage” (not a bad idea). That is, they line the base of their pots with expanded clay to perhaps two to three inches and then fill the pots with a mixture of coco substrate and expanded clay.
I personally can’t see a problem with using expanded clay with coco substrate other than perlite has a higher air capacity than expanded clay (45% versus approx 30 - 35%). Other than this expanded clay offers the roots less security than perlite and is an effective conductor of heat.

jberry said:

Coco Substrate Buffer ​

(Used for preparing non-buffered coco substrates such as compressed coco blocks)​

Calcium Nitrate 290 g/l
Magnesium Nitrate 280 g/l
Magnesium Sulphate 10 g/l
Ferric EDTA 2 g/l​

Make 1L by beginning with 500ml of RO (demineralised) water. Add ingredients one at a time, dissolving each ingredient before adding the next. When all ingredients have been added, top up to 1000ml (1L) with RO water.​

What I recommend you do is hydrate the coir blocks in mains (tap) water. That is, fill a bucket or tub with mains water. Measure the EC of the mains water before adding the compressed coir block/s. Let’s say it’s EC 1.0 for arguments sake. Add the compressed coir block and allow it to expand. Stir the water and coco substrate around and then measure the EC again. You’ll no doubt find the EC is now much higher. OK, now run mains water through the coir (you may find a bucket with holes and mesh at the base helps here). Run the mains water through (flush) the coir until the water that has passed through the coir (runoff) is no more than EC 1.0 - 1.2. I.e. Original mains water EC ideally matches that of the runoff.​

Now fill up a bucket with demineralised (RO) water and dilute the buffer concentrate to 1.4 EC (700ppm). Place the hydrated/expanded and water flushed coir into the diluted buffer solution and leave to soak for at least one hour.​

After one hour or more, take out the now buffered coir and squeeze out the excess fluids so the coco substrate is not saturated/water logged. You may find drying it in the sun for a while helps. .​

Ready to go – you now have a high quality buffered coir product at a fraction of the cost that you would pay for similar products through stores. I’d also recommend that you mix the coir with perlite. 60% coir to 40% perlite when using it as a run –to-waste medium.​

Tip: Many of the compressed coco blocks that are purchased through gardening centres are (when uncompressed) coco powder. If this is the case, look for varying grades of coco substrate, working from fine to larger fibres and mix them into a single product to increase air porosity within the media.

Perlite
Each particle of perlite consists of tiny air cells that provide for a large surface area. Because of the shape of perlite, large air gaps form between the particles. This means there is plenty of oxygen available to the root system.
Perlite doesn’t compact and because of this maintains an ideal balance of oxygen and water (oxygen moisture ratio).
Perlite is very tolerant to overwatering which makes it very forgiving medium. Because of its nature, perlite allows excess water to drain off and provides an air ratio of approximately 45%.
Perlite, like coco, has thermal insulation qualities, which provides the root zone with a high degree of security against heat.
Perlite is a very cost effective medium. It is about half the price of expanded clay.

Clay Balls/Expanded Clay (e.g. Hydroton) and Coco Substrate
I’ve noticed on internet forums that many growers speak of using expanded clay instead of perlite when working with coco substrate and RTW growing.
Other than this, many growers seemingly use expanded clay at the base of the pots to allow for “better drainage” (not a bad idea). That is, they line the base of their pots with expanded clay to perhaps two to three inches and then fill the pots with a mixture of coco substrate and expanded clay.
I personally can’t see a problem with using expanded clay with coco substrate other than perlite has a higher air capacity than expanded clay (45% versus approx 30 - 35%). Other than this expanded clay offers the roots less security than perlite and is an effective conductor of heat.

Click to expand...

Okay, so I would do this to buffer out my coco? Kind of like adding dolomite to soil right?

I have been wondering why I have such drastic swings in pH. My entire last grow was riddled with pH issues. Still wound up alright, but I know it could have been MUCH better.

I am using liquid organic nutes (GH's General Organics Line) if that makes any difference, or cause enough for me to be aware of anything else.

I appreciate the help man, +rep.

statik said:

Okay, so I would do this to buffer out my coco? Kind of like adding dolomite to soil right?

I have been wondering why I have such drastic swings in pH. My entire last grow was riddled with pH issues. Still wound up alright, but I know it could have been MUCH better.

I am using liquid organic nutes (GH's General Organics Line) if that makes any difference, or cause enough for me to be aware of anything else.

I appreciate the help man, +rep.

Click to expand...

That is likely the formula that BCuzz / Canna uses to buffer their coco...

Calcium is a good buffer, if i were you, i would just mix up a pH adjusted cal/mag solution and see if that helps replace some of what you washed away.

jberry said:

That is likely the formula that BCuzz / Canna uses to buffer their coco...

Calcium is a good buffer, if i were you, i would just mix up a pH adjusted cal/mag solution and see if that helps replace some of what you washed away.

Click to expand...

LOL, that's funny because I did exactly that last night after you posted all that other info. Not all of the plants are exactly where they should be, but all are no higher than 6.5 at the moment.

Not exactly perfect, but better than 7.5 IMHO. I'll drop the pH a bit more tomorrow as to not cause more stress than needed. I tried dropping it too fast in some plants my last grow and had some hermie issues from known female clones.

Lesson learned.

Thanks again for all the help.

Here is my setup:

Strain: Black Domina
Grow Media: Coco/Hydroton 70/30 mixture
Nutes: Canna Coco - Parts A & B, Rhizo, & Cannazym
Light: 1000 Watt HPS @ 50%, dimmable quantumn ballast
Temp: 70 degrees


I transplanted these two days ago from solo cups w/ coco into the coco/hydroton mix. The PH is 5.8 & ppms are around 750. There was a strong root structure formed(the whole cup of coco was mostly roots). I used 8ml of parts A&B per gallon. 10ml of Rhizotonic per gallon & 8ml of Cannazym per gallon. The plants have not reacted well. Many of the leaves are curling up and twisting. They are starting to get a crunchy feel to them. I will attach a couple of pics. I don't know if they are suffering from the cal/mag associated with coco or if I went too strong with the nutes. I also moved the light so it is about 24" above the plants. Thank you in advance for your help.

Hey Jberry long time no talk. So I a trying to make a nute plan for next coco grow.

JB I really respect your knowledge, I am really curious to which products you would pic. I made a list of things I will be using, please feel free everyone to fill in your favorites.


Base nutes:
PK boosters:
Humates:
Silica:
Sugars:
Enzymes:
Innoculants:

I have been looking into sensi grow and sensi bloom, they seem mighty good. any thoughts on using these in coco.

jberry said:

sounds good but i would "pot up" a few different times.... dont start in those 15 gal.

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Just wondering why you suggest re-potting a few times rather than just starting them in the bigger pot they will finish in? Ive always tried to minimize the number of times I have to re-pot so usually Id put the rooted clones straight into a 15gal pot which they stay in for the rest of their life. Maybe its mainly because Im a very lazy grower and like to keep everything as easy as possible and keep the work to a minimum but I also think it helps to encourage maximum root growth from day 1.

M Blaze said:

Just wondering why you suggest re-potting a few times rather than just starting them in the bigger pot they will finish in? Ive always tried to minimize the number of times I have to re-pot so usually Id put the rooted clones straight into a 15gal pot which they stay in for the rest of their life. Maybe its mainly because Im a very lazy grower and like to keep everything as easy as possible and keep the work to a minimum but I also think it helps to encourage maximum root growth from day 1.

Click to expand...

I say that for a few reasons...

If you have ever dug through your medium after growing in it, you can see that the majority or the root mass is on the walls of the container and the center of the medium has much less of a root mass (this is the reason peeps use smart pots)...

The way I see it is that the more times you "pot up", the more root mass you will have in the end... Of course at some point it could be counterproductive because transplants can be stressful for the plants as well... 2-3 times is plenty imo.

It also can be hard to keep water levels constant...A small plant in a large pot can be easily over watered.

If there is not enough plant material to use the water and nutrients and/or the container of coco stays wet for too long inbetween waterings then you may get lockout, pH issues and /or salt build up.

Its just a personal preference I guess, but those are some of the reasons i pot up

jberry said:

I say that for a few reasons...

If you have ever dug through your medium after growing in it, you can see that the majority or the root mass is on the walls of the container and the center of the medium has much less of a root mass (this is the reason peeps use smart pots)...

The way I see it is that the more times you "pot up", the more root mass you will have in the end... Of course at some point it could be counterproductive because transplants can be stressful for the plants as well... 2-3 times is plenty imo.

It also can be hard to keep water levels constant...A small plant in a large pot can be easily over watered.

If there is not enough plant material to use the water and nutrients and/or the container of coco stays wet for too long inbetween waterings then you may get lockout, pH issues and /or salt build up.

Its just a personal preference I guess, but those are some of the reasons i pot up

Click to expand...

amen....lol not only do i pot up multiple times but i also root prune about half a inch on all side and bottom to cut thru any rootspin this also creats root branching which increases root mass

Coco never seems to get root bound like soil. I've got a small tree in my flower room right now that has been a mother for about 4months and has been happy in a 5gal bucket the whole time. It drinks about a gallon of water every 1.5 days and the coco feels like a solid mass of roots.

Coco is some badass shit . . . .

hey is coco only good for hydroponics cause that seems to be the only thing the thread mentions i use coco soil for just regular growing and someone just told me it was shit and it will cause alot of problems in this true or how else could i make this work?

bender420 said:

Hey Jberry long time no talk. So I a trying to make a nute plan for next coco grow.

JB I really respect your knowledge, I am really curious to which products you would pic. I made a list of things I will be using, please feel free everyone to fill in your favorites.

Click to expand...

Here are mine
Base nutes: Ionic
PK boosters: Ionic Boost
Humates: Fossil Fuel
Silica: Botanicare Silica
Sugars: None
Enzymes: Hygrozyme
Innoculants: Earth Worm Casting Tea

Gwarthegreat said:

hey is coco only good for hydroponics cause that seems to be the only thing the thread mentions i use coco soil for just regular growing and someone just told me it was shit and it will cause alot of problems in this true or how else could i make this work?

Click to expand...

i hand water coco just fine dude just make sure ur nutes are complete n u'll b fine

Solcyn26 said:

i hand water coco just fine dude just make sure ur nutes are complete n u'll b fine

Click to expand...

thanks dude ive been hand watering my plants since i got them and they are doing just fine i just dont feed them till they look like they need it