COCO + PERLITE vs SOIL the question

Sativied said:

The most common causes of death for beginners are drowning and over-fertilizing the medium, in both cases coco is more 'forgiving' than soil (coco doesn't pack together as much, excessive nutrients can be leached much easier without drowning the plant/soil). Soil belongs outdoors with the worms, the fish, death matter and beneficial microbes and not in pots, unless you for whatever reason prefer organic. The typical comment of soil being easier, more forgiving etc for beginners is (no longer) true, a mere cliche left over from the early days of hydro.

I prefer medium-less over any soil-less though, even simpler, even more kiss. There's no need for a 'medium' when you provide nutrients 'directly' (as long as you take care of the mechanical support factor).

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I never have "packed together" problems in soil. But, like you said, it's organic.
When I think about the abuse of synthetic's in soil. I am inclined to agree with your opinion on the "forgiving to beginners" thing.
But in the end, maybe it's rather equal in comparable synthetic use, IF the synthetic used is simple, non urea and minimal supplementation is used.
While there is a learning factor for both. I am still inclined to say the soil maybe more forgiving as there is more of a preciseness involved with hydro....That can be a bump for newbies.....simple for a novice and nothing for the experienced grower. In soil you don't have to worry about ppm/ec or if handled correctly pH....

Any way you bring up an interesting, valid point!
If you learn ahead of time what you need to be doing and how to do it.....there should be, basically, not much difference...
I prefer, you prefer......that's what works for us.....that's really all that matters.....I must admit here that we have a new facility coming online soon. It's going to be hydro, computerized and self contained. Soil/Coco/media would be to labor intensive.

Dr. Who said:

I never have "packed together" problems in soil.

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With proper soil it doesn't have to be a problem. It's not as much a downside of soil as an advantage for coco - not saying soil is unsuitable But notice the difference between soil pots and coco pots after weeks or even near the end of the cycle, coco pot will still be filled (if initially properly filled according to for example Canna's instructions), while the soil will be missing a few inches (depends on pot size of course). Obviously depends a lot on your soil-mix, but in general, unlike soil, coco doesn't compact as much over time retaining a better water-air ratio.

Dr. Who said:

IWhile there is a learning factor for both. I am still inclined to say the soil maybe more forgiving as there is more of a preciseness involved with hydro....That can be a bump for newbies.....simple for a novice and nothing for the experienced grower. In soil you don't have to worry about ppm/ec or if handled correctly pH....

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In practice that is often a bump for newbies yes. Unfortunate, because in reality it's not that you actually have to worry about ppm/ec in hydro, it's that you can control/correct it precisely in the first place (only in true hydroponics is it accurate though). Most cannabis hydro growers (in the hydro forums anyway) use way too high nutrient levels which is the nr one cause of the ph problems, root problems, excessive stretch, etc etc.

I could go a week or longer without checking the ph, the ec, AND the water level (in my recirculating setup that is) because I prevent pretty much all possible problems simply by keeping temps and nutrient levels low, proper circulation, and a nutrient soup with nothing more than base nutes (i.e. proper npk ratio). The ph level itself is also highly overrated, especially a stable ph isn't even a good thing (it's better to swing between 5.5 and 6.2). I.e. both the ec and ppm values should be within a range which really isn't particularly 'precise'. In practice, all I do is add a few caps of nutes and a few bottles of water to my rez every few days. I only use PH down after a weekly refresh. It's like maintaining a single pot.

Dr. Who said:

I must admit here that we have a new facility coming online soon. It's going to be hydro, computerized and self contained. Soil/Coco/media would be to labor intensive.

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Sounds like a cool project. I do love the fact I have so little waste and don't have to drag bags of soil in and out my house (nosy neighbors...)

Also, keep in mind that in a mediumless system a grower can simply replace the entire nutrient solution with the desired ec/ppm while one cannot 'replace' a medium. It doesn't get any more forgiving than that.

That all said, main downside is also the upside, hydro is faster. The good things happen faster, but so do the bad. Especially with a pre-mixed soil and large pots, yeah in ways soil is more forgiving.

radicaldank42 said:

I have never had that problem. I let my coir dry out and allow my thirsty light to tell me when to water which is about every three days. And no plants don't like to be fed every watering, to much food. They actually like it better in my opinion if you use 1/4 of the strength the label says to use.

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If you waiting 3 days inbetween waterings your not growing to your potential. I'm suprised you haven't run into any issues doing this. When I get lazy and don't water my plants in veg everyday I run into problems almost immediately.

In fact, I'm always amazed when I read people are watering inbetween feedings and not watering everyday. I've tried doing similar things NUMEROUS times in an attempt to cut down on veg work/save money and it NEVER works for me.

Actually I just woke up and wasn't thinking....

OF COURSE you get away with light feedings and plain water once every three days. If you didn't use 1/4 strength and plain water with that method you'd run into problems with salt build-up. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU GROW IN COCO, sorry.

Your method of 1/4 strength/plain water wet dry cycles is really backwards, sorry. Your letting the salt dry in your medium, then irragating it out over a couple days. My plants would have a ton of deficiencies if i fed them 1/4 strength everyday!!! Reason being watering everyday flushes out the old stale salts-you should never have any dry salts in your coco, or it's time for a heavy irragation. Does that make sense?

Squidbilly said:

Actually I just woke up and wasn't thinking....

OF COURSE you get away with light feedings and plain water once every three days. If you didn't use 1/4 strength and plain water with that method you'd run into problems with salt build-up. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU GROW IN COCO, sorry.

Your method of 1/4 strength/plain water wet dry cycles is really backwards, sorry. Your letting the salt dry in your medium, then irragating it out over a couple days. My plants would have a ton of deficiencies if i fed them 1/4 strength everyday!!! Reason being watering everyday flushes out the old stale salts-you should never have any dry salts in your coco, or it's time for a heavy irragation. Does that make sense?

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I like your style.

Personally though I'm not an every day watering kind of guy.

As stated I don't use plain water ever.

I do however water once the top of the coco has become dry and lighter in colour.

There is still ALOT of moisture still underneath the surface though.



J

jondamon said:

I like your style.

Personally though I'm not an every day watering kind of guy.

As stated I don't use plain water ever.

I do however water once the top of the coco has become dry and lighter in colour.

There is still ALOT of moisture still underneath the surface though.



J

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Well that's a different story, lol. Your right, everyday isn't written in stone but keeping it moist is crucial. My first run of coco I went with containers that were too small and I added too much perlite. I didn't have an automated system set up yet and in flower it was a nightmare. If I didn't get them water every 4-6hours when the lights were on they would start to wilt and I would run into build up if I didn't.

Container size and root mass have to be factored in. If your in small containers and close to root bound it can be really hard to keep the medium moist for more then a few hours, and when coco dries out bad things happen.

On a side note, I've been experimenting with Fox Farms Coco Loco for some young mothers. It's an ammended choir based potting soil. I'm really impressed with how well it's working and how easy it is to use. Alternate feed and water on wet/dry cycles...it's really saved me a lot of time and hassle. Keeing mothers in straight coco is a pain in the arse.

TE="Dunbar Santiago, post: 10562077, member: 785601"]Negative. Coco needs to stay moist, and you should feed every watering like it has already been said. In fact one or two waterings a day is ideal. Unless you're using a big container. If so, you're doing it wrong. And you can't give fertilizer dosage recommendations when you don't know what fertilizer anyone is using. It's not all equal buddy. You can't say 1/4 strength if you don't know what ppm it comes out as.[/QUOTE]
Thats true bit feed every watering will lead to over feeding.especially at full strength.