CocoNot... A Premium Coconut Coir Alternative by VermiCrop.

Hello everyone, I am a long time Cocoponics grower but I recently got some bags of CocoNot and I have started a new grow with it.... Flowering (12/12) starts today. I thought I would start this CocoNot thread to let everyone one know how the grow goes and how well the CocoNot works. I have never used it before and just heard of it for the first time last week so I'm sure there will be some learning to do along the way but I'm fairly confident that I will be able to pull it off without any serious issues. I have talked to the Vermicrop Product Specialist on a few occasions and have a phone # for him so I think I could answer any questions that need answering.

This thread will actually be slightly more than just a CocoNot thread because I will also be doing a side by side test using Canna Coco w/ Canna Coco Nutrients VS. Vermicrop's CocoNot w/ Cutting Edge Solutions new unreleased 100% Organic line of nutrients. I will be using the same additives on both crops (some organic, some not).

So that's that... it sort of a CocoNot thread and sort of Journal style but everyone should feel free to join in with their coconot experience and/or questions... I'm hoping the thread gets at least a little action.

I also wanted to thank J. over at Vermicrop again for all the support.

CocoNot is a soilless medium made from the bark of sustainably harvested redwood trees blended with the fibers of a Kapok fruit. Utilizing a specific layer of the redwood bark and using a proprietary method to grind the material into 6 different size/shaped particles of medium we have created a structure made with the sole purpose to grow plants. We found by adding the fiber of a Kapok fruit we were able to add additional buoyancy, resilience, and drainage. This fiber is made of mostly Lignin: Lignin is generally associated with reduced digestibility of the overall plant biomass, which helps defend against pathogens and pests. A perfect air to water ratio, PH'd and buffered for optimal nutrient uptake CocoNot is free of excess salts and is providing amazing results for growers… CocoNot does not need to be rinsed but should be fed water only for the first 5-10 days. Keep in mind that this material dry's quickly and should be watered regularly... if more water retention is desired add VermiBlend (Mix 1 bag of VermiBlend with 2 bags of CocoNot). General Hydroponics will be offering the CocoNot product pre-filled in their 8" Coco-Tek Basket's. Works great for flood and drain gardens and spring starts! Many hugely successful gardens are being grown with CocoNot and we are excited for you to experience it!!

CocoNot is a natural and organic substitute for Coconut coir, peat moss and other soilless mediums and conditioners. CocoNot is made by a special 6 step process to provide a perfect ratio of grinds and pith thus providing the plant with an exact medium structure for optimal root growth and moisture capacity. Sourced from the United States as a sustainable bi-product CocoNot has the least environmental impacts compared to its substitutes. Side by side comparison by the most experienced gardeners has shown superior growth and yields. This special mixture is now available in a 2 cubic foot bag.

CocoNot does not have to be rinsed because it has no issues with excess salts like Potassium Chloride or Sodium that is sometime attributed to Coco that is poorly rinsed. Coco usually has this issue because of the industry process of removing the husk from the actual Coco Nut (They soak the coconuts in salty ocean water). This is also what contributes to the dangerously high levels of Potassium and Sodium found in coco that has not been rinsed well.

There are some well buffered Coco’s out there that are rinsed, steamed, (not all are steamed) and charged back up... Charged back up meaning that the Cat-ionic exchange capacity that is left devoid of most all cat-ions after the steaming process that release’s of all those Cat-ions of potassium and sodium is re charged with N- Mg –and Ca or you will have a issue with the first feedings becoming that charge and it will seem as if you haven’t fed your plants at all. Some Coco companies leave it up to the gardener to do the charging but this can be a difficult process for some people to grasp and a process which a lot are unaware of.

...Going off that bit of information. The CocoNot is a bi-product from a completely different industry and does not carry the same issue with Potassium or Sodium that needs ample flushing. The CocoNot is buffered with Oyster Flour for PH balance and slightly charged because the Cat-ionic exchange capacity is open to the initial storage of those Cat-ions and would be filled during the first feedings causing that same issues that coco would have if the coco was not initial charged. Soils with high humic matter have the highest Cationic exchange sites but are usually already filled from the nutrients from the natural composting process, so they need no charge to guard from this issue.

The CocoNot can be watered only for the first week with Vermi T, ect. or just plain water to allow the initial charge of N, Ca & Mg that is in the CocoNot to deplete a bit. All industry preferred nutrients can be used without issues and a Cal-Mag supplement is always encouraged not only to keep availability high, but merely because they are secondary nutrients that can be taken up in much higher quantities than your micronutrients. So for people that are used to there Coco nutrients they should have no issues using the same lines, as the nutrient %’s that are usually adjusted are the Ca and Mg. Now when/if the nutrient line also lowers –K- levels to counter balance the high levels of –K- in some Coco’s (Canna) then additional -K can be added as a supplement during grow and bloom... Earth Juice makes a product that is specifically Potassium(K) at 7% called Meta-K... most Silica additives have a 0-0-3 NPK and Silica is also a good a supplement... I also occasionally use a product called CytoPlus made by BioAg, it is a micro-nutrient mix that contains humic concentrates, seaweed, and also contains 7.5% Potassium(K). Any of the products I just mentioned, or any product that is high in K and has a low or no -N-P- content will work fine for converting your coco specific nutes into a nutrient formula that is suitable for growing in CocoNot. Just make sure you choose the right product for your situation, so that you dont add too much of some other element when trying supplement the Potassium.

As for CocoNot and beneficial biology, you want to minimize the use of heavy chlorinated tap water or high salt fertilizers. If using either, a weekly inoculation with Vermi T, G-Rex, Great White, Compost tea, ect., should keep your beneficial numbers in range.
If you are a 100% sustainable organic gardener, it is also great to inoculate once a week just to keep a even balance between nutrient immobilizing organisms and predator organisms. This is where we see the most optimal growth enhancement with beneficial biology.

Re-Using Your CocoNot?

This is a huge preference question as many have found difficulty in reusing mediums for many reasons and some have found the ways to make it work. In a organic sustainable situation the medium is usually kept healthy and free of disease….However it could still harbor excess amounts of fertilizer from the previous cycle which are slow to breakdown or rinse out. In this instance you would want to make sure you flush the medium at the end of your cycle with a fresh brewed tea like Vermi T, and/or use a product like Cannazym and/or inoculate. That way you can encourage the uptake of the remaining nutrients without adding more and so that the biology can break down any remaining organic nutrient and guard against pathogens that would effect the start of the next garden.. You would also want to remove the main portion of the root ball leaving only the smallest root fibers to decompose naturally. Start the next garden with only tea or with very little feed and adjust the nutrient regimens accordingly to plant response.

If using a salt based nutrient you would want to take even more stringent measures as more salts are stored and can be a higher detriment to the new crop. Same procedure follows for the tea treatment and removing of the root ball. You may want to remove all medium and give it a ample flushing in some kind of soaking method with a Clear out or Flora Kleen, CannaFlush, Clearex, ect., followed by a tea feeding on the first watering of new plants.... this way you are waiting to observe if your plants are still receiving nutrients at that time.

When you start reusing material, you kind of have to throw all feeding charts out the window because some nutrients may still be present and some not so you will have to have a master gardeners intuition on what your plants are needing at the moment. Following a chart that is suggesting the high use of something that may still be stored in the medium can definitely lead to a confusing trouble shoot for inexperienced novice gardeners and cause much frustration.

That being said… I believe in indoor gardening situations that if you are a novice then you should switch your mediums out at every harvest but still reuse it out side in your gardening beds that are fertilized more seasonally leaving any unused nutrients to supplement your outside garden. However if you have a great grasp on plant physiology and nutrient management then you should most certainly give it a shot…. The main reason being (besides saving a ton of time, work, and money) that especially in a organic method of gardening you are allowing you organisms the time it takes to build vast networks of communities that only get stronger with time.

Hey bud,

So I have played with Coconot before. I was very excited after I talked to the rep, and got some free shit like you. Unfortunately coconot just didn't compare to pure coco. I must admit that vermi-blend is amazing stuff, and I cut my coco with 10% of that stuff every time.

I am still very excited about your experiment. You are my coco Sensi, and no doubt you will dial in the coconot better than me. I just got tired of coconot very fast, because I was convinced it couldn't compare to regular ol loose canna coco. I also got negative feed back from another person. I actually just ended up putting coconot around my roses outside.

what was the problem or downfalls of it? did it dry faster? and did u cut it with ant vermi-blend?

bender420 said:

Hey bud,

So I have played with Coconot before. I was very excited after I talked to the rep, and got some free shit like you. Unfortunately coconot just didn't compare to pure coco. I must admit that vermi-blend is amazing stuff, and I cut my coco with 10% of that stuff every time.

I am still very excited about your experiment. You are my coco Sensi, and no doubt you will dial in the coconot better than me. I just got tired of coconot very fast, because I was convinced it couldn't compare to regular ol loose canna coco. I also got negative feed back from another person. I actually just ended up putting coconot around my roses outside.

Click to expand...

jberry said:

what was the problem or downfalls of it? did it dry faster? and did u cut it with ant vermi-blend?

Click to expand...

as recommended by the rep, I cut it with vermiblend.

The plants just didn't want to eat. I couldn't nail down the problem. The pots also dried very fast and the water just went straight through. I can only water once a day, as I hand water, unless cut with something else it really seems to need more than one watering a day.

Well I guess no one is interested in this CocoNot stuff based on the ghost town like atmosphere around here lol.

I suppose I will still make updates on the grow and hope it helps someone at some point.

As of now there is no noticeable difference in the visual looks of the plants. The majority of this crop is White Berry by Paradise Seeds...
I also threw in 10 plants of Blue Dream and 1 LSD from Barney's Farm

CANNA COCO: So far it has been a little over a week of flowering and the plants in the Canna Coco have huge fury white roots popping out of the top and bottom of the coco!

COCONOT: The CocoNot plants have very little roots visible anywhere... I found a root here and there sticking out of the bottom but nothing compared to the Coco.

I also have 3 plants that I mixed coco with coconot and honestly they are my best plants as far as root structure. There is huge roots comming straight out of the top of the coco in a major way that I have not seen before! I have roots stick out the surface of the coco all the time but never to this extreme. Maybe this is becuase the mixture is good and maybe its because they happened to be above average plants that just happened to get the mixed medium.

hi jberry. you say canna coco mixed with coconot is better than coco on it own. how accurate is the experiment? what was the percentage of coco,coconot mix?

any pics?

Welcome J.
Well I didnt exactly say that and it is way too early to tell... I'm only reporting my observations as they come... I am also using 2 different nutrients (coco specific for the coco and regular nutes for the coconot) so the test isnt going to be exactly scientific but I think it will be helpful enough to see if the CocoNot is comparable to Coco, for better or worse.

The mix was aprox. 50/50.

I will continue to make updates but I would say it is too early for me to say that the mix works best... FYI the mixed medium is getting the Canna nutes, not the organic cutting edge like the CocoNot plants.

Well I have been busier then I like to be but wanted to let everyone know that the CocoNot Plants have made a big comeback and they seem to be doing slightly better then the coco plants... The stems are thicker and the plants are bigger... not by a lot but enough to notice...

hey jberry, how did this go? I havent had the best of luck with coconot, especially when reusing it. there are some definite CEC issues.

waixingren said:

hey jberry, how did this go? I havent had the best of luck with coconot, especially when reusing it. there are some definite CEC issues.

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Hey waixin and everyone, sorry I fell off this thread. I dont have the time I that I use to have, due to some new bussiness adventures I have recently become involved in.

To answer your question the final results of the CocoNot VS. Canna Coco were very close, infact too close to tell and I just didnt have the time to get too detailed with weighing individual plants and taking other various measurements but visually there was no difference to really speak of between the two mediums... I must admit that as I got deeper into flowering and also got very busy I did end up using both types of nutrients on both mediums several times rather then sticking to the game plan which was to feed coco specific nutes to the canna coco and CES organic nutrients to the CocoNot... I did do this about 50% of the total grow I would guess and both recieved the same supplements (cal/mag, boosters, ect.).

If there was any noticable difference I would say that the plants grown in the coconot actually seemed to have slightly denser flowers with more hairs and were also slightly taller and the coco plants appeared healthier as far as leaf color and visual appearance.

I could tell when the grow was over that I did'nt want to attemt to reuse the CocoNot just by the texture and the gut feeling I had about told me not to to it. The main thing I didnt like about the CocoNot was the way the water would just pour right threw the pot very quickly (too quickly!) and it was harder then it should be to get a nice even watering... The Canna Coco drains welll but in a much slower and even manner that I prefere.

The overall results of the CocoNot for me personally were great and better then I expected BUT it did have some things that I didnt like (mentioned above) so for right now, I will continue to use coco coir for its consistancy, natural benefcial fungi, and its reusablity factor.

PS- The Whiteberry from both mediums came out soo freakin bomb! People really liked this stuff... big fruity chunky goodness

What type of issues did you have waixingren? I would like to carry Vermi Crop's line at a new hydro shop I am opening this summer and would like to know what type of issues you know of... When you say it has cation issues when reusing, can you share more info? thanks bro, I appreciate the heads up.

Peace, -J.

hey Jberry whats up bro. hey i was thinking about switching to coco and would you say straight up coco is better than the coco not mix. i been using FFOF and its good but i want to improve my set-u so does the coconot perform as well? I remember you sayin that the water just goes right through it. was this a major problem for you? plants?