my question was first and you never answered it, either..
Coming to a hospital near you, sign up now.
- Thread starter Winter Woman
- Start date
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
That's a poor analogy. People can choose to have their car fixed by themselves, fixed by any number of mechanics or chose not to drive altogether. Obamacare provides no option NOT to participate and threatens violence against those who refuse to go along with it.
Oh wait, if you're a Congressman you don't have to participate, right?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I'm happy to give it a try. What's your question?
I assume then you will tell me why you think it's okay to use force against peaceful people...like rapists and the mafia do.
not when people are struggling to keep their utilities on..your car is the last thing you take care of..imo
EDIT: your analogy is like.."then let them eat cake" mentality..if you don't have the money for wheat to make bread then your not gonna have money for sugar either.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Prevention is bullshit in terms of cost. Prevention increases cost in a healthcare system not decreases it.
Lets take someone who has diabetes. If they dont take care of themselves they die at 60. If they do take care of themselves they die at 90. How much extra is spent on healthcare over those 30 years?
In a system that has to pay for ALL healthcare, prevention is not a good thing in terms of cost.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Not at all. People should be free to eat cake, sugar or anything they want, it's their body. My point was about freedom of choice. You seem to think that people shouldn't be able to make choices and be responsible for the results of their choices.
I guess you are going to continue dancing away from the questions I've asked you...
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Schuylaar,
Here is why many people are pissed off with this plan.
I have been healthy most of my life. I dont want to pay for something I dont use. So, I find a group of people who are similarly healthy and we all go in and buy healthcare insurance. It costs us 200-300 dollars per month because we are healthy.
Now, you are pissed off because you have not been healthy all your life and you have to pay 600-700 dollars per month and you look at people like me with envy and say that you should also not have to pay so much.
In comes Obamacare.
My little group can no longer exist because Obamacare makes our policies conform to all policies. Suddenly my group insurance must accept pre-existing conditions, have no caps, be all inclusive, and have lower deductibles.
You are happy because you think that suddenly you are going to pay less.
But now we are lumped into one big group with the healthy and the sick along with all of the above add-ons.
What is going to happen is that my premiums are going to jump up to 600-700 dollars per month and yours are not going to go down significantly. Everyone gets to pay an exorbitant price or pay a fine to the US government for not wanting to support the new all inclusive health care system.
I will not be able to keep my plan because it does not conform to the new requirements of Obamacare. I will not be able to keep my doctor because he will not accept the new Obamacare policy. My premiums will double because I now have to pay for people with pre-existing conditions, pay for maternity care even though I am a single male, pay for no limits on my healthcare insurance, pay for a lower deductible, etc. Basically I will get nothing that was promised at the start of this whole situation.
And you cannot see any of this because you want to believe that suddenly you are going to get to pay 200-300 dollars like the rest of us when what is really going to happen is the young and healthy will be subsidizing the care of the old and the sick. It is re-distribution of wealth in a new entitlement program that is simply unsustainable unless like medicare & medicaid they start denying and limiting care at a higher rate than private insurance.
And you still have not explained why you believe that it is my and societies responsibility to pick up your healthcare costs simply because you are sick.
Here is why many people are pissed off with this plan.
I have been healthy most of my life. I dont want to pay for something I dont use. So, I find a group of people who are similarly healthy and we all go in and buy healthcare insurance. It costs us 200-300 dollars per month because we are healthy.
Now, you are pissed off because you have not been healthy all your life and you have to pay 600-700 dollars per month and you look at people like me with envy and say that you should also not have to pay so much.
In comes Obamacare.
My little group can no longer exist because Obamacare makes our policies conform to all policies. Suddenly my group insurance must accept pre-existing conditions, have no caps, be all inclusive, and have lower deductibles.
You are happy because you think that suddenly you are going to pay less.
But now we are lumped into one big group with the healthy and the sick along with all of the above add-ons.
What is going to happen is that my premiums are going to jump up to 600-700 dollars per month and yours are not going to go down significantly. Everyone gets to pay an exorbitant price or pay a fine to the US government for not wanting to support the new all inclusive health care system.
I will not be able to keep my plan because it does not conform to the new requirements of Obamacare. I will not be able to keep my doctor because he will not accept the new Obamacare policy. My premiums will double because I now have to pay for people with pre-existing conditions, pay for maternity care even though I am a single male, pay for no limits on my healthcare insurance, pay for a lower deductible, etc. Basically I will get nothing that was promised at the start of this whole situation.
And you cannot see any of this because you want to believe that suddenly you are going to get to pay 200-300 dollars like the rest of us when what is really going to happen is the young and healthy will be subsidizing the care of the old and the sick. It is re-distribution of wealth in a new entitlement program that is simply unsustainable unless like medicare & medicaid they start denying and limiting care at a higher rate than private insurance.
And you still have not explained why you believe that it is my and societies responsibility to pick up your healthcare costs simply because you are sick.
well, i'm not unhealthy..what i was referring to was how insurance companies get away with murder..they've been calling the shots all along to the detriment and demise of the patient and finally someone stopped them.. boo fucking hoo..lol 30 days gap and of course everything has recurred within that time period so they MUST carve it out..I CALL BULLSHIT!
get a catastrophic plan and quit complaining..
answer my question..but you can't, can you????
Doer
Well-Known Member
Not voting is part of the game. I already explained. You are ignoring reality. Did you not vote or did you? Don't answer that. Or defy me.
Freedom. I'm sorry you don't actually have an understand of what real freedom is. It is not your imagination.
Real freedom is defined only within the bounds of the particular system. (read history?)
Real Freedom is what we enjoy as you bitch. It is defined within the system and it is allowed by the system. The system, systematically and quite viciously defines freedom. ALWAYS and ALL the time. Here we have the 9th Amendment and you don't.
Why does a US citizen not understand what they have is beyond me. It is not theoretical. It simply is the, somewhat, less bloody way to go about in the long run. Why does this challenge you?
Embrace the 9th my friend. You do not even know yet what you have missed here. I stipulate the existence of your worldview, however. Confused as I was.
You have the right to not mess with anyone and sit and be quite happy and enjoy. What else is any of your business?
Or you can get worked up into an angry outlook. Pissed off. Whatever keeps you from seeing what this is. It is WE people in our Counties, that either give a shit or not. Vote or not. Not a fallacy to me and a few million of us here in this County that vote on everything. No pass, no do. Do pass, pay judges to vet it against the Manual, in Self Rule. We pick the damn judges also. Don't try to tell me different. It makes you look so ignorant. Wake up.
When you make it, all the world is your business, you get confused. You make it your mission to make us see it. You become your anger.
Dude, we lose our empathy when we do, because we think we know and THEY don't. We end up passing the chance to know more.
Take it from me?
Doer
Well-Known Member
See you won't answer. The thing is, WE the people define our reality. WE band together in a way now beyond your understanding and protect. A lot people in my day said to me, as a scream..spittle, red face. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!!
I knew, having a civics education, that was not correct. The 9th A means you don't have to, love, do, or say anything. You can, and many do ignore all laws. It is just more risk. It is more freedom than any other system and can be amended and regulated by WE.
If you don't vote it means you don't care. If you don't care that is a freedom of the 9th. Turn out is meaningless in self rule.
nitro harley
Well-Known Member
You brought it up.....Can you believe that?..
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I have a catastrophic plan, it is called a high deductible.
Someone stopped them by making me pay more, reducing my choices and throwing in a financial penalty if I choose not to participate?? And this is somehow supposed to make me happy?
Nobody understands which question you keep going on about. If you notice, we re-ask the questions so you know what the fuck we are talking about. Would you please re-ask the question instead of going on non-stop about how nobody answers your questions???
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
How's the 9th amendment doing protecting your rights? Lysander Spooner wants you to read his essays.
Having a "vote" in who will be the person or group of persons that steal from you is not really a choice. Tell me how YOUR vote changes the world....go ahead....tell me.
how lazy..you can't even be bothered to go back a few posts? fail
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
You know Cheesus, if you keep dressing up like that and wearing lipstick when you post as schuylaar you're bound to get caught and then Mom's gonna throw you out of the basement.
Doer
Well-Known Member
Your problem is deep and it is the life in your mind. Voting is the way we exercise self rule. And no one is stealing from me. WE will have their ass if possible. More than one dude has sat long stretches, for fucking with me. More than one woke up after I called cops. I've shot no one and held no one at gun point, yet.
Why do you put words in my mouth? It means the subject is too deep. You have a bleeding heart and don't know what to do.
Stop acting like I want to change the world. I am not saying voting is the way to change the world. I say voting is how WE conduct SELF rule.
WE don't change the world. WE regulate it for the voting interests of WE the people. Some would have us in total conquest. Some would turn away. So we vote.
Just because you are the chump, the gimp of the Anti-Con, don't think WE are.
It is obvious to all you are bitter, so what? An angst driven life. BTW, I don't read essays. I write them.
You are so lost. The 9th A is a blanket Grant of Rights. All the ones not stated.
Protecting the Rights is your job. You either ignore most of the details and become bitter and stupid about it;
Or you get with like minded citizens and create the specifics we call laws.
Or just keep you head up your ass, in general.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
A civics lesson isn't necessary, but thanks anyway. How has the 9th amendment done protecting your "rights" ? Hint...it can't and never has.
Lysander Spooner keeps calling me and wants you to read his essay on the Constitution of No Authority....he says it will be more productive for you than a trip to your proctologist for an expensive head extraction.
You have no idea what self rule entails....it isn't about voting for who will be the next super daddy or head of the ring of thieves.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Morris and Linda Tannehille called, they said you might consider reading their book, THE MARKET FOR LIBERTY.
In my fantasy do I get to wear a superhero costume with a cape? Cuz that would be really cool.