Commercial Grow choices

gr865 said:
Dude I am very stoned now, Barneys Farm LSD, so the numbers you have thrown out here are just a blur, :)
I am a personal grower, no sales so three to five plants are about what I am into. I am more interested in getting a good product with decent weights, I make Cannabis Oil, so I try and do two grows a yr. Running the two 315's in my 4x4 with more than enough light and far less heat issues and cost. And I believe that is what most of us hobby growers are looking for.
I've run 60 plus zips on 11 plants over my last my last 3 grows, two vertical and one horizontal. Has allowed me to meet my smoking and CO for my meds. So all is good.
You are so right, that weight is totally dependent on strain and technique.
One of the 5 plants in my G13 Haze vertical grow, about two weeks prior to harvest.
View attachment 4086059
Click to expand...
That’s a lot of bud sites
 
gr865 said:
I have drawn a few plans, for fun, that features both horizontal and vertical light movers. I think I could get X number of 12 foot tall x 6 wide x 12 long stacked, both plants and lights. That would be fun.
Click to expand...
yes man. light rails rock. u can cover a 4x8 with a single 1k on a lgiht mover.. that's old school man. we did it that bc it worked, and it still does. ive done stacked rooms before.. light rials and 600's.. in a 12x12, u mark off two 3'x10' sections and a 3'x12' section. build a small paltform base, casters are nice. plywood and 2x4's. Then build a 2nd level for each 3' wide "bed". two 600's or a single 1k per "bed" on a rial.. this was Before 315's were invented, im sorta curuious, i bet 315 woudl kill in a low-profile doble decker..
 
Go go n chill said:
January 1 2019 is the GO date of legal MMJ where I’m at.... if the bill passes. I have a building and A rent price settled on with 5 yr contingency. I’ve just gotta get ALL my eggs together and make my bid to the state and hope and pray I get one of the licenses
Click to expand...
lucky dog.. some of us older cats are drug war felons and got to use clever work-arounds.. my advice is to keep it simple, whatver u choose to do..
 
BigHornBuds said:
If I had of seen this before I setup, I’d probably have 315s instead of DE1000s
But I’d probably have 10-12 vs 4 de1000s


I’d say your numbers are right (0.5/30)
I think once everything is turned on you’ll get more because of the numbers of lamp and the casting light .
You have to factor in everything, if you have a max plant count , a budgets , etc etc .

Not every setup is right for everyone ,
But there is some good info in the thread .

If I didn’t have a max count , I’d do SOG
And look for somewhere with extra height ceilings and stack 2 grows where one normally would be .
Click to expand...

yeah, youre totally right.. its several things that factor in.. I replied to you or the other cat, about stacked rooms.
Its interesting that you'd choose 315's over the 1k's.. is it b/c of versatility? that u can re-position and move 10 lamps around better than just 4x 1k's?
My highest production rooms ever, were in the 90's. striaght-up SOG man.. plant rooted clones in 3" rw blocks, into 10/20 trays, handwatered daily, 3part GH, superthrive, maxi-crop and molassess.. under 400w's. 16 plants per sqft.. pulling 5-8g per plant.. even on the low end at 5g, that's nearly 3zips per sqft. Oh but so much work. just making that many clones sucks, and them trimming that many, lol, smh.. i never ever lay buds flat, always hang-dried, so u cant just cut them off the stick and commerical dry on screens.. made the process longer..

Obvousily i dont run like that anymore..that was 20-some odd years ago, ya know... I did do a few sog runs with the 315s when i first got a hold of them..to play around. i get a better idea of light performance/yeild if i run a shitton of clones, i average out the weights and see which ones did better, how much diff did the corner clones yeild vs. center, etc.. If i were to stick 3 or 4 big plants under a 315, i dont feel i could have accuralty judged the lamps..

like i siad average 12zips per 315. I ran 1x 315 per m2. (its why i say i think you need 1 and 1/2 315 per m2) i did 36 clones per 315 lamp, in 6.5" botanicare sqaures. They close to 1gal US nurshery pot.. I had them already, so when i got the 315's i just ran clones in them instead of RW or 1gal rounds or whatever.. it was convenient... here is a photo. :)
 

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I’m running DE1000s now, and they need to be 3 feet above the tops, no matter what a/c or how much air movement, some of my sativas get a little to close near the end .
If we are looking at just watts , my DE1000s go to 1200w, but I run on 1000. I can run 3 315s n still be pulling less , this giving better coverage of light and better par #ers and being closer to the tops .(less wasted light n space. Better overall light spread, less degraded light at the outside of the grow area.
A lot better for SOG style.
When I had a 1000 over a 4x4 SOG the outer edges where never as good as the center

Spending time n money growing stock doesn’t add up when you do the math.
Yes cloning that much sucks , but when you add up cost to run vs reword at the end of a yr, SOG beats big plants .
I like trimming SOG style better, got to do a lot of loopypopping n upkeep to avoid popcorn, SOG makes nice dense buds, less up keep.



I grow 4 plants in 10g pots under each 1000
It’s the only way I can have a perpetual grow, grow different strains and try new strains & pheno hunt and stay legal.
If No plant count , SOG
No more vegging .

But if I was running 315s I would have the room setup differently...and would cut back on the number of strains I keep.
The 315s can NOT penetrate like the 1000s
So you need to grow smaller plants .


Everything is always give n take.
Nothing is the perfect setup,
I’m always tweaking or changing something
I was a huge supporter of smart pots , now I’m just done with them, if they where free n I could use a new one every time , I’d keep using , but there not and now onto Hercules pots , (10 days in) so far so good, next batch will get the same pots.
 
BigHornBuds said:
I’m running DE1000s now, and they need to be 3 feet above the tops, no matter what a/c or how much air movement, some of my sativas get a little to close near the end .
If we are looking at just watts , my DE1000s go to 1200w, but I run on 1000. I can run 3 315s n still be pulling less , this giving better coverage of light and better par #ers and being closer to the tops .(less wasted light n space. Better overall light spread, less degraded light at the outside of the grow area.
A lot better for SOG style.
When I had a 1000 over a 4x4 SOG the outer edges where never as good as the center

Spending time n money growing stock doesn’t add up when you do the math.
Yes cloning that much sucks , but when you add up cost to run vs reword at the end of a yr, SOG beats big plants .
I like trimming SOG style better, got to do a lot of loopypopping n upkeep to avoid popcorn, SOG makes nice dense buds, less up keep.
Click to expand...
Thats what i figured, its the ability to rearrange and move the smaller 315's thats the real advantage.. like i say ive ran them, and for me, i prefer larger plants, so for me personally, 1k is the way to go. i still have the 315s and use them for things, though.. i mean, i paid for them. i aint just going to throw them out..
yeah, it's a constant tweaking. there is no perfect setup and no perfect strain either.. even on dialed-in high-pro gardens, i;ll still be adjusting and tweaking all the way up until chop time.. U kind of have to.. i mean, the garden itself is alive and constantly changing.. its never the same from one minute to the next, so u gotta be changing along with it.. and i keep an open mind and try and learn new stuff each day..
Like for instance, what is "lollypopping"?
hey and this is a stupid question, but can u ignite a DE with a standard ballast? all u need is a DE socket assembly/hood, right? Ive been seeing more of these DE bulbs.. got me curious.. supposed to be more efficient or something than standard HID bulbs?

I guess trimming is personal perferance.. no right or wrong way.. to me, I can burn through a plant with 4 donkey dick branches, faster then i can a 7gram SOG clone.. like, not plant vs plant, but on the whole,, like ie: 200 plants with 4 solid leads, versus 1500 single stem 12" tall clones.. but, yeah everyones setup is different and there are an endless number of variables at play when decieding what "best" for any given scenario. and the trimming is just one tiny factor..

You use 10gal pots? Wow, those are huge pots, compared to the 2,3 and 5's i'll use....
just 4 per 1k? i bet u got some bigass plants man! Like the old rope-handled buckets from target, supercropping to the max. how long u gotta veg them till they big enough to flip? not too long probably, like 3 wks maybe, bc of the hugeness of 10gallon containers, right?
--
 
No stupid questions
lollypopping , is when you strip the branch to have a head like a lolly pop .
This drives the energy to the top of the branch letting it get bigger n fatter, vs leaving it all and getting some subpar airy buds because they don’t get the light. With big plants I remove the bottom 1/3 because they can’t keep up with the canopy, and they just suck energy from the tops. ( but I have 1 strain I don’t do much to, it just makes dense bud top to bottom.

I don’t know about running DEs with a normal ballast I’m not techie at all, doing good using the google box (never looked into it as I wanted an all in one setup) the reflector is a very important part to max your numbers.

the DE is better but you can’t keep it as close. You will see an increase in yeild if you can maintain conditions.

I really like the 10s , I’ve used 5&7s
Was using geo pots, now hard wall air pots

I SC, LST, some times MC because I don’t keep moms. Veg is 6-8weeks. Veg ends in 3g pots , then put in 10g for flip. ( you want to see a plant explode do this) I shoot for 2x2ish cubes, with 30 plus heads. If I go bigger they just get to big for my setup as they double in size.

I veg with T5s & 315s
 
deep_rob said:
i have 315's as well, they are the only "modern" piece of tech i have.. (still trying to learn about LEDs and DIY cobs).. I use the 315s in specific scenarios, like to burn though generations in smaller sectioned-off areas, or for testing out soemthing.. Sometimes science calls for setting up multiple 3x3 tents or using panda film to section off an area, to test something or whatever.. Instead of using a shit-ton of CFL's or like a 400 or 600 i can rely on the 315's.... i love them, they dont get as hot as 400/430 but produce the equivalent (in my mind) to what a hypothetical 450 or 500w HID would do.. they work great, and have thier purpose and place.. .. but i dont use 315's for big runs. they simply dont have the penetration i want. I still always rely on trusty 1k hps's for production runs man.. veg under 1k mh's at 24/0.. flwr under 1k hps's..
Click to expand...
these are with. DIY cob set up
 

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To answer the question of what commercial grow operations are using.

Id say 95%+ use a Gavita 1000w or similar with the DE Phillips bulbs. But has been stated.

You HAVE to have minimum of 36 inches from the top of the canopy, and are good for a 5 x 6 area vs 4 x 4 for a 1000w Hortilux HPS.

Hortilux in the right situation though is hard to beat.

I/me and my 2 cohorts of over 30 years grow large plants in large containers and up to 3 1000w Hortliux for Flowering, though I did just buy 2 1000w Gavitas and gave them to a buddy 3 weeks ago to experiment with, and within a week he already noticed a difference. I get all his product though.

At the moment he, and another buddy are growing a 3 years old Mr Nice Super Silver Haze F2 that was picked from over 100 females. It produces huge, stretches 4x 5 x in flowering, and has dense buds all the way down the branches. We don't trim off the lower secondaries, as they produce big. We wont keep a plant unless it has good complex secondary branching, as this is key to big production.

The plants are also Bent to grow laterally, and all secondary branching is trained to grow vertically, while the growing tip grows Horzontially. Secondaries get intensely blasted with light. It basically becomes a hedge, and you would have to get underneath the plant and look up, to find the growing tip when properly trained. I also NEVER TOP them. This stops the growing tip. Unless you want to give it 2 weeks to catch up?? IMHO in many instances, topping slows them down, and takes 10-14 days to get over it, and catch back up. So its 2 weeks lost IMHO when time is a concern.

Using 2 plants in 20 gallon containers, Promix BX per 1000w Hortilux we get at least 2 lbs per 4 x 4 ever 70 days

We/I also veg with a 1000w Hortilux HPS and 5 gallon containers, and transplant into 20 gallon the day of flip.

Feeding??

If using Chemical we ue.

Sunbulb Orchid food, and Cal/Mag supplement.

The make both a Veg, and Flowering formula, contains NO UREA NITROGEN ( Cheap ), and also contains some Magnesium

For seedlings I use

1/2 tsp Veg x 1/2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag per 5 gallons water. Feed every watering.

As they get bigger I go to 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5 G water. 1 Tsp Cal/Mag. Feed Water every time

Full Veg get 2 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5G water. 1 Tsp Cal Mag. Feed Water every time.
1st 10-14 days flowering will give Veg Formula.

15 days until Mid Bloom gets. This can also vary if it is a really long flowering variety. Slight changes are made with really early, or really long flowering varieties. This is for 50-75 days. You just have to determine lengths of early, mid, late, blooming cycle, and adjust accordingly.

Also some plants may have to be skipped 1 feeding every 3rd feeding, but from what Ive found, is rare. I just use light feedings. Often.

2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag.

Late Bloom drops the 1 Tsp Veg.
 
Last edited:
jimihendrix1 said:
To answer the question of what commercial grow operations are using.

Id say 95%+ use a Gavita 1000w or similar with the DE Phillips bulbs. But has been stated.

You HAVE to have minimum of 36 inches from the top of the canopy, and are good for a 5 x 6 area vs 4 x 4 for a 1000w Hortilux HPS.

Hortilux in the right situation though is hard to beat.

I/me and my 2 cohorts of over 30 years grow large plants in large containers and up to 3 1000w Hortliux for Flowering, though I did just buy 2 1000w Gavitas and gave them to a buddy 3 weeks ago to experiment with, and within a week he already noticed a difference. I get all his product though.

At the moment he, and another buddy are growing a 3 years old Mr Nice Super Silver Haze F2 that was picked from over 100 females. It produces huge, stretches 4x 5 x in flowering, and has dense buds all the way down the branches. We don't trim off the lower secondaries, as they produce big. We wont keep a plant unless it has good complex secondary branching, as this is key to big production.

The plants are also Bent to grow laterally, and all secondary branching is trained to grow vertically, while the growing tip grows Horzontially. Secondaries get intensely blasted with light. It basically becomes a hedge, and you would have to get underneath the plant and look up, to find the growing tip when properly trained. I also NEVER TOP them. This stops the growing tip. Unless you want to give it 2 weeks to catch up?? IMHO in many instances, topping slows them down, and takes 10-14 days to get over it, and catch back up. So its 2 weeks lost IMHO when time is a concern.

Using 2 plants in 20 gallon containers, Promix BX per 1000w Hortilux we get at least 2 lbs per 4 x 4 ever 70 days

We/I also veg with a 1000w Hortilux HPS and 5 gallon containers, and transplant into 20 gallon the day of flip.

Feeding??

If using Chemical we ue.

Sunbulb Orchid food, and Cal/Mag supplement.

The make both a Veg, and Flowering formula, contains NO UREA NITROGEN ( Cheap ), and also contains some Magnesium

For seedlings I use

1/2 tsp Veg x 1/2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag per 5 gallons water. Feed every watering.

As they get bigger I go to 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5 G water. 1 Tsp Cal/Mag. Feed Water every time

Full Veg get 2 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5G water. 1 Tsp Cal Mag. Feed Water every time.
1st 10-14 days flowering will give Veg Formula.

15 days until Mid Bloom gets. This can also vary if it is a really long flowering variety. Slight changes are made with really early, or really long flowering varieties. This is for 50-75 days. You just have to determine lengths of early, mid, late, blooming cycle, and adjust accordingly.

Also some plants may have to be skipped 1 feeding every 3rd feeding, but from what Ive found, is rare. I just use light feedings. Often.

2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag.

Late Bloom drops the 1 Tsp Veg.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info, very helpful
 
jimihendrix1 said:
To answer the question of what commercial grow operations are using.

Id say 95%+ use a Gavita 1000w or similar with the DE Phillips bulbs. But has been stated.

You HAVE to have minimum of 36 inches from the top of the canopy, and are good for a 5 x 6 area vs 4 x 4 for a 1000w Hortilux HPS.

Hortilux in the right situation though is hard to beat.

I/me and my 2 cohorts of over 30 years grow large plants in large containers and up to 3 1000w Hortliux for Flowering, though I did just buy 2 1000w Gavitas and gave them to a buddy 3 weeks ago to experiment with, and within a week he already noticed a difference. I get all his product though.

At the moment he, and another buddy are growing a 3 years old Mr Nice Super Silver Haze F2 that was picked from over 100 females. It produces huge, stretches 4x 5 x in flowering, and has dense buds all the way down the branches. We don't trim off the lower secondaries, as they produce big. We wont keep a plant unless it has good complex secondary branching, as this is key to big production.

The plants are also Bent to grow laterally, and all secondary branching is trained to grow vertically, while the growing tip grows Horzontially. Secondaries get intensely blasted with light. It basically becomes a hedge, and you would have to get underneath the plant and look up, to find the growing tip when properly trained. I also NEVER TOP them. This stops the growing tip. Unless you want to give it 2 weeks to catch up?? IMHO in many instances, topping slows them down, and takes 10-14 days to get over it, and catch back up. So its 2 weeks lost IMHO when time is a concern.

Using 2 plants in 20 gallon containers, Promix BX per 1000w Hortilux we get at least 2 lbs per 4 x 4 ever 70 days

We/I also veg with a 1000w Hortilux HPS and 5 gallon containers, and transplant into 20 gallon the day of flip.

Feeding??

If using Chemical we ue.

Sunbulb Orchid food, and Cal/Mag supplement.

The make both a Veg, and Flowering formula, contains NO UREA NITROGEN ( Cheap ), and also contains some Magnesium

For seedlings I use

1/2 tsp Veg x 1/2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag per 5 gallons water. Feed every watering.

As they get bigger I go to 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5 G water. 1 Tsp Cal/Mag. Feed Water every time

Full Veg get 2 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Bloom per 5G water. 1 Tsp Cal Mag. Feed Water every time.
1st 10-14 days flowering will give Veg Formula.

15 days until Mid Bloom gets. This can also vary if it is a really long flowering variety. Slight changes are made with really early, or really long flowering varieties. This is for 50-75 days. You just have to determine lengths of early, mid, late, blooming cycle, and adjust accordingly.

Also some plants may have to be skipped 1 feeding every 3rd feeding, but from what Ive found, is rare. I just use light feedings. Often.

2 Tsp Bloom x 1 Tsp Veg x 1 Tsp Cal/Mag.

Late Bloom drops the 1 Tsp Veg.
Click to expand...
2 plants in 20gal pots under 1000w hortalux. Sounds like less work but strain dependent
 
oh,
BigHornBuds said:
No stupid questions
lollypopping , is when you strip the branch to have a head like a lolly pop .
This drives the energy to the top of the branch letting it get bigger n fatter, vs leaving it all and getting some subpar airy buds .....
Click to expand...

oh ok. i feel dumb.. like, we do that normally..i just never heard it called that. it makes perfect sense though, it invokes a more specific image than saying "pruning". i like it.

yeah i sort of figured that i'd need a specific ballast to run DE bulbs.. so u can't make then aircooled and drop them right on top of yur plants? I guess they are to strong?

wow, 6-8wk veg w/ 30+ tops, i bet they are huge! That is for sure super-cropping! that's so awesome man!

I see these air pots the ones with holes, and the fabric ones.. i get the principal, and i want to try some.. all these new advances are so cool man.. ive been doing this a long time, but ive been out of the mainstream loop for the past 14 years.. like, i went dark, like right when OG Kush was first tearing up the west coast.. so from then until now, i missed quite a bit.. im sorta learning all this new tech like a newbie would.. thanks for having the patience and for taking the time to respond.. cheers
 
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