Confused by nutes and schedules

FlashBabylon · May 2, 2014

cottee said:
Dud
dude the guy is a tight budget with no ph pen so I don't think he's gonna be interested in double dear AV lol

Also I'm not running from clone and they aren't in a humidity dome, they are all planted up with 2-3 sets of leaves each, but still defiantly slow despite today marking 2 weeks since they went under the MH lamp 24 hours a day. Surely I should be seeing more explosive growth by now?

Most of the plants look pretty pale, a noob guess would be nitrogen deficiency but I have no experience to base this on.

Bloke in the shop also gave me some veg boost stuff for free but I would rather stick with the Canna Coco nutes as I'm growing in Canna Coco. Only additive I'm using is mild root tonic.

Have closed up the tent for the day now the kids are home from school. Will see how they are doing in the morning after having had a very mild feed. It would be handy to have a reference image to go by as to what they should look like when they want food.

Also, should I feed again tomorrow? And perhaps a little more if they are not burnt from it? I hear that coco should be watered every day if you can and that you can't really overwater like with soil.

cottee · May 2, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Also I'm not running from clone and they aren't in a humidity dome, they are all planted up with 2-3 sets of leaves each, but still defiantly slow despite today marking 2 weeks since they went under the MH lamp 24 hours a day. Surely I should be seeing more explosive growth by now?

Most of the plants look pretty pale, a noob guess would be nitrogen deficiency but I have no experience to base this on.

Bloke in the shop also gave me some veg boost stuff for free but I would rather stick with the Canna Coco nutes as I'm growing in Canna Coco. Only additive I'm using is mild root tonic.

Have closed up the tent for the day now the kids are home from school. Will see how they are doing in the morning after having had a very mild feed. It would be handy to have a reference image to go by as to what they should look like when they want food.

Also, should I feed again tomorrow? And perhaps a little more if they are not burnt from it? I hear that coco should be watered every day if you can and that you can't really overwater like with soil.

they will be fine for 5 days probly u don't want them constantly soaking wet

FlashBabylon · May 3, 2014

cottee said:
they will be fine for 5 days probly u don't want them constantly soaking wet

Five days?! Really? Goes against everything I've read about growing in coco, all the guides seem to suggest watering every 1-2 days in veg and twice to once a day in flower, depending on how much they are drinking. Obviously they aren't drinking much at the moment, but I figure they could do with a steady, gradual increase in nutes at this point.

Any pointers folks?

FlashBabylon · May 3, 2014

Meant to say as well, the new growth today is looking really, really pale. Not burnt looking, just sorry looking. I'm thinking they probably need some food, being more than two weeks old and growing in coco.

To recap, so far they have had one feed of 0.05ml per litre and are two weeks old. Growth is extremely slow, 3 sets of leaves on the fastest growing plant.

FlashBabylon · May 3, 2014

Meant to say as well, the new growth today is looking really, really pale. Not burnt looking, just sorry looking. I'm thinking they probably need some food, being more than two weeks old and growing in coco.

To recap, so far they have had one feed of 0.05ml per litre and are two weeks old. Growth is extremely slow, 3 sets of leaves on the fastest growing plant.

FlashBabylon · May 3, 2014

Also the bottle says to leave it out to sit several hours before watering. I am not bothering, is this an issue? Tap water isn't very chlorinated here and received wisdom says I should give plants freshly oxygenated water for the roots to thrive. I am using watering can not a water butt.

Update, I don't have much time this weekend to tend to them so I have watered them again today with some stronger solutiuon:

Water - 10.5 litres
Canna A - 8ml
Canna B - 8ml
Root tonic - 20ml

So, a ratio of about 0.8ml / litre of canna coco and 5ml / litre of root tonic.

I will be able to check them once more this weekend, this evening. I figure if they are looking healthy, all well, and I will next feed them on Monday. If they are burning at all, I will flush them with ph water tonight nd give just water on Monday.

Sound sensible?

cottee · May 3, 2014

As they have just been transplanted they won't drink a lot so 5 days at least at the moment. As they get bigger they will drink more then u start reducing the days between watering. Let them dry a bit before watering. Feel the heavyness of the pot and keep checking till it lightens up a bit. If coco is soaking wet all the time the roots won't grow well. Water them when they need watering don't just water for the sake of. When they start drying out in 1/2 to days that's when u know u need to transplant If there a really pale green that's a sign that they want more food. O.8 per l would be fine. I don't bother leaving the water out for hours once I've made my mix up but I leave my water out for two days so it de chlorinate

tyke1973 · May 3, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
OK, so I got a lot of advice before buying my setup, but now I feel like a fool when reading about what to feed my plants when it comes to it. So I have a lot of questions, sorry. I'll number them to make it (hopefully) easier to answer!

1) I'm growing in rockwool blocks in coco coir. I was told to use Vitalink Max, but I now realise that is for hydro setups not coco.I guess it would work but I guess also that I am better off getting some Canna coco a+b, is that right?

2) EC....I just about understand. Electrical conductivity, higher due to salt buildup in the coir yeah?

3) But do I *need* to measure this? The testers are expensive and I am poor (tight).

4) Can I just go on a schedule of watering every 2-3 days, and every 2-3 waterings give a feed according to the chart on the bottle?

5) Should I flush them on the last watering before the feed watering? I mean I will water each time until I get some runoff from the 15 litre pots but should I *properly* flush?

I feel like an idiot having got this far without really knowing what I was doing about feed. I also kinda wish I'd used soil, but I'm too committed to change now hahah! Thanks in advance....

Go with this
veg
----
week - 1,1.1 ec
week - 2 1.2 ec
week - 3,1.3 ec
week - 4,1.4 ec

Flower
---------
week -1- 1.4 ec
week -2- 1 .5 ec------big bud from advanced 2 ml per ltr
week -3- 1.5
week -4- 1.5 ec
week- 5- 1.6 ec pk 13/14 from canna
week- 6 - 1.6 ec
week- 7 - 1.6 ec
week- 8 - 1.6 ec
week- 9 water

I no longer ph i know what the ph is in the buckets i use 5.8/6.0
far more important is knowing the ec if the lights are kept on the
tops,so the nodes will be close then you will get a nice yeild.
I do 3 plants under 2 x 600 hps lights and a 600 hps with out a hood
so it can be dropped any where in the room.the other 2 lights are cool
hoods with a 10 " fan pulling air through the filter then through the lights
then vented out of the room into a loft space,8" inlet that pulls air from a hatch
in the loft then pulled through 8" duct that is along the grow room floor with holes
punched in the sides so it is evenly spread along the bottom of the room.I only use
the 3rd light on cool days if its warm then i know the two lights are ok but i dont add the 3rd light while about week 3/4 of flowering any how.winter i use all 3.

Hope that this helps i use aqua flakes a/b,but it will work with any nutes done it with canna vitalink advanced

FlashBabylon · May 3, 2014

Cool cheers cottee, you're being a great help on this.

I think the feed yesterday was too far on the cautious side and I want to get them going now as they are two weeks old. Hopefully the stronger feed today will kick them in the ass and they will get going now. Not all of them are newly transplanted btw, 3 have been in the coco a few days now.

Going to let them be for the next few days, then give them another feed at the same strength, possibly up it to 1ml per litre, when they feel lighter as you suggest.

Feeling a lot more confident and knowledgable as a result of your advice man, thanks very much.

Only thing I have left to tend to at the moment is the environment. Temps are fine, been running between 23 and 28*C (73-82*F), but humidity is low at 60% despite me using an ultrasonic humidifier. I may try turning up the circulation fan up to level 2 and turning the exhaust fan down a bit. Hopefully the circulation under the light will prevent the temp from creeping up too much.

Tyke1973, I don't have an EC meter, but I might be able to work out what the dosage should be by comparing your table to the canna coco feeding table. Thanks for that.

cottee · May 3, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Cool cheers cottee, you're being a great help on this.

I think the feed yesterday was too far on the cautious side and I want to get them going now as they are two weeks old. Hopefully the stronger feed today will kick them in the ass and they will get going now. Not all of them are newly transplanted btw, 3 have been in the coco a few days now.

Going to let them be for the next few days, then give them another feed at the same strength, possibly up it to 1ml per litre, when they feel lighter as you suggest.

Feeling a lot more confident and knowledgable as a result of your advice man, thanks very much.

Only thing I have left to tend to at the moment is the environment. Temps are fine, been running between 23 and 28*C (73-82*F), but humidity is low at 60% despite me using an ultrasonic humidifier. I may try turning up the circulation fan up to level 2 and turning the exhaust fan down a bit. Hopefully the circulation under the light will prevent the temp from creeping up too much.

Tyke1973, I don't have an EC meter, but I might be able to work out what the dosage should be by comparing your table to the canna coco feeding table. Thanks for that.

No worrys mate. If it saves just 1 plants life it's worth it lol 60% humidity should be fine neway.not sure of ur set up or ur outside environment but I run my lights at nit. That way it's cooler when the lights on and not cold when there off. U got em in a tent? What light they under?

FlashBabylon · May 4, 2014

Sorry, thought I had responded but hadn't hit reply!

They are in a 120 cm sq tent (1.8m high). Passive air intake from a duct next to an open window. Exhaust via carbon scrubber to roof vent.

Currently under a 250 W metal halide, will go under 600W sodium for flowering.

Today's update: they seem to have enjoyed the nutes, if anything they haven't had enough. Looking at the Canna feeding chart, I should have been feeding them 15ml per 10 litres from week one, and be upping to 19ml per 10 litres as I move through the veg stage.

So - I'm going to lightly water them this morning with 15ml in 10 litres. Fingers crossed!

cottee · May 4, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Sorry, thought I had responded but hadn't hit reply!

They are in a 120 cm sq tent (1.8m high). Passive air intake from a duct next to an open window. Exhaust via carbon scrubber to roof vent.

Currently under a 250 W metal halide, will go under 600W sodium for flowering.

Today's update: they seem to have enjoyed the nutes, if anything they haven't had enough. Looking at the Canna feeding chart, I should have been feeding them 15ml per 10 litres from week one, and be upping to 19ml per 10 litres as I move through the veg stage.

So - I'm going to lightly water them this morning with 15ml in 10 litres. Fingers crossed!

I would go be there chart at this.
Take it slow don't rush. I don't go over 2.5 per l in veg. give them 4ml per liter nowadays the rhizo now. Rhizo is not a food it's a root stimulate. It won't effect ur EC . When u switch to the 600w put it up as high as it can go and slowly bring lower because the increase in light will stress them. Ul know when they r light stressed because they will they will wilt. What size r ur fans. I only have 1 6 inch exhaust fan in each of my 2 1.5/1.5 with two 600s in each one.

FlashBabylon · May 4, 2014

cottee said:
I would go be there chart at this.

Sorry I don't understand... are you saying I should follow the chart or I shouldn't? I'm referring to the customised chart on canna.com. It seems to concur with your dosage - says to work up to a max of 23 ml per litre.

Exhaust is a single five inch fan. It's not the greatest and it's very noisy, so it may well get replaced by a better fan when I flower if I can afford the outlay. I also have a desk fan oscillating in there.

Having fed them, and about to go out for 3 hours, I thought I would give them 3 hours of dark time just to observe what happens (if anything). Perhaps root development and a little stretch. Other than that they are on 24 hours a day at the moment.

One of the SLH looks like it's about to take off into proper vegetative growth. It has it's first three fingered leaves out and has grown visibly in the couple of hours since I got up this morning. I'm taking that as a sign that the increased nute schedule is a good idea. If they take the 16 ml per litre well, I will let them dry out a couple of days before gradually moving up to 20 ml per litre in a week or so. Come on babies, time for you to explode now!

cottee · May 4, 2014

FlashBabylon said:
Sorry I don't understand... are you saying I should follow the chart or I shouldn't? I'm referring to the customised chart on canna.com. It seems to concur with your dosage - says to work up to a max of 23 ml per litre.

Exhaust is a single five inch fan. It's not the greatest and it's very noisy, so it may well get replaced by a better fan when I flower if I can afford the outlay. I also have a desk fan oscillating in there.

Having fed them, and about to go out for 3 hours, I thought I would give them 3 hours of dark time just to observe what happens (if anything). Perhaps root development and a little stretch. Other than that they are on 24 hours a day at the moment.

One of the SLH looks like it's about to take off into proper vegetative growth. It has it's first three fingered leaves out and has grown visibly in the couple of hours since I got up this morning. I'm taking that as a sign that the increased nute schedule is a good idea. If they take the 16 ml per litre well, I will let them dry out a couple of days before gradually moving up to 20 ml per litre in a week or so. Come on babies, time for you to explode now!

sorry spell check is shite. Don't got buy the chart just take it easy. Some people run 24 hours but I don't I do 18/6. Like to give them a rest. Stick with a strict lighting schedule. If ur goin the 24 hour route stick with it. Don't give them random dark periods. Messed up lighting periods is notorious for causing hermies. I build up to 2.5 over 4-5 weeks take ur time with the nutes

FlashBabylon · May 4, 2014

Ok cheers dude. I guess the chart is a guide but I need to watch the plants and respond accordingly. Thanks for the tip 're lighting. When I'm back home I'll put the lights back on and leave em on. Thanks again!

Tanzmetal · May 29, 2014

tyke1973 said:
Go with this
veg
----
week - 1,1.1 ec
week - 2 1.2 ec
week - 3,1.3 ec
week - 4,1.4 ec

Flower
---------
week -1- 1.4 ec
week -2- 1 .5 ec------big bud from advanced 2 ml per ltr
week -3- 1.5
week -4- 1.5 ec
week- 5- 1.6 ec pk 13/14 from canna
week- 6 - 1.6 ec
week- 7 - 1.6 ec
week- 8 - 1.6 ec
week- 9 water

I no longer ph i know what the ph is in the buckets i use 5.8/6.0
far more important is knowing the ec if the lights are kept on the
tops,so the nodes will be close then you will get a nice yeild.
I do 3 plants under 2 x 600 hps lights and a 600 hps with out a hood
so it can be dropped any where in the room.the other 2 lights are cool
hoods with a 10 " fan pulling air through the filter then through the lights
then vented out of the room into a loft space,8" inlet that pulls air from a hatch
in the loft then pulled through 8" duct that is along the grow room floor with holes
punched in the sides so it is evenly spread along the bottom of the room.I only use
the 3rd light on cool days if its warm then i know the two lights are ok but i dont add the 3rd light while about week 3/4 of flowering any how.winter i use all 3.

Hope that this helps i use aqua flakes a/b,but it will work with any nutes done it with canna vitalink advanced

Hello this is great info for us newbies.. With these ec readings, are they including or excluding the ec of the tap water I am using? I am guessing it is excluding, as everyone's water will be different?

Thank You

cottee · May 30, 2014

Tanzmetal said:
Hello this is great info for us newbies.. With these ec readings, are they including or excluding the ec of the tap water I am using? I am guessing it is excluding, as everyone's water will be different?

Thank You

That will be including the tap water dude

Tanzmetal · May 30, 2014

cottee said:
That will be including the tap water dude

Oh shit ok, thanks for clearing that up. Cheers

Confused by nutes and schedules

FlashBabylon

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cottee

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FlashBabylon

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FlashBabylon

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FlashBabylon

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FlashBabylon

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cottee

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tyke1973

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cottee

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FlashBabylon

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FlashBabylon

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FlashBabylon

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Tanzmetal

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