Coronavirus treatment options and the impact on public policy

Fogdog said:

The article by itself isn't bad. But why post the whole damn thing here? Just like those dumb posts about HCQ from a site that was the darling of Republicans when they wanted to distract us from their fuck up that's already killed 90,000 people.

A quick summary and a link was all it deserved. It wasn't all that informative. Here is the gist of what you copied and pasted that occupied a whole page:

The vaccine under test is not a deadly poison. The test validated the theory. Tons more testing remains and the likelihood of it succeeding is tiny.

I could write a whole page with mathematical models about "why it might rain next year in the Mojave Desert in August but it probably won't". That's about how significant the article is. So, I'm guessing you didn't really understand what you posted. It was more like, "gee whiz, I don't understand this but if I copy and paste it, you guys will think I'm a genius".

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Maybe there are others who are interested? My style of posting is no different on this topic than others, but I'll tell ya what, I'll try to confine it to the first paragraph of a reliable article summary if it makes ya happy. More important topics will get other treatment as will both sides of issues and current scientific questions. Nobody gets too far ahead of their skis and qualify what they say according to available evidence, though expert opinion is a valid topic too, for discussion, but not necessarily as proof. I define evidence differently than proof, though some use the term interchangeably. Evidence is of different quality too from anecdotal, the lowest to a controlled study, that might not show causation.

Sound reasonable? Comment on the content, criticism of dangerous things is most welcome, add to the discussion. I have taken your opinions into consideration and upon reflection feel some points are valid. Just because I post a study on HCQ does not mean I advocate it, the last one I feel explained a lot about recent events, even though it never made the news like earlier ones. It might explain why Donald dredged it up again only to be shot down again by a very good large scale trial that showed actual harm with in days, the evidence is starting to come in, the studies underway will put it to bed one way or another.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Maybe there are others who are interested? My style of posting is no different on this topic than others, but I'll tell ya what, I'll try to confine it to the first paragraph of a reliable article summary if it makes ya happy. More important topics will get other treatment as will both sides of issues and current scientific questions. Nobody gets too far ahead of their skis and qualify what they say according to available evidence, though expert opinion is a valid topic too, for discussion, but not necessarily as proof. I define evidence differently than proof, though some use the term interchangeably. Evidence is of different quality too from anecdotal, the lowest to a controlled study, that might not show causation.

Sound reasonable? Comment on the content, criticism of dangerous things is most welcome, add to the discussion. I have taken your opinions into consideration and upon reflection feel some points are valid. Just because I post a study on HCQ does not mean I advocate it, the last one I feel explained a lot about recent events, even though it never made the news like earlier ones. It might explain why Donald dredged it up again only to be shot down again by a very good large scale trial that showed actual harm with in days, the evidence is starting to come in, the studies underway will put it to bed one way or another.

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This a political forum and so, you can expect your posts to be treated as political commentary. If you want to post developments in science without criticism for how it is being used by political interests, post it in an appropriate forum. I think funding research into the vaccine is a worthwhile investment. I'm reading about it and it's most certainly interesting.

That said,

Trump's political machine is looking for every excuse and deflection possible in order to save the Republican party's chances of hold on power. Hence, the "warp speed" vaccine development program. Hence, HCQ. Hence, "lockdowns don't work". Hence, every possible way to give his supporters reason to think the severity of this epidemic "is a hoax trotted out by Democrats and "the media"".

So, I suggest posting stuff about science and technology in the appropriate forum and just mention what's going on here, if you like. That vaccine has very little chance to be released. Yet it's getting glowing reports by the press and huge emergency funding. This is a political issue because Trump is diverting huge sums on a risky moon-shot that lines the pockets of pharma while depriving the country of funding for low risk, high reward alternative -- a unified system for containing future outbreaks through testing, contact tracing and isolating people who were exposed.

Trump is again acting the snake oil salesman and gaslighting us about the chances of of his snake oil helping us when there is a better and more certain way to defend this country from an even worse second wave of deaths. And, yeah, I have skin in this game and shit like that annoys me.

Fogdog said:

This a political forum and so, you can expect your posts to be treated as political commentary. If you want to post developments in science without criticism for how it is being used by political interests, post it in an appropriate forum. I think funding research into the vaccine is a worthwhile investment. I'm reading about it and it's most certainly interesting.

That said,

Trump's political machine is looking for every excuse and deflection possible in order to save the Republican party's chances of hold on power. Hence, the "warp speed" vaccine development program. Hence, HCQ. Hence, "lockdowns don't work". Hence, every possible way to give his supporters reason to think the severity of this epidemic "is a hoax trotted out by Democrats and "the media"".

So, I suggest posting stuff about science and technology in the appropriate forum and just mention what's going on here, if you like. That vaccine has very little chance to be released. Yet it's getting glowing reports by the press and huge emergency funding. This is a political issue because Trump is diverting huge sums to line the pockets of pharma while depriving the country of funding for a unified system for containing future outbreaks through testing, contact tracing and isolating people who were exposed.

Trump is again acting the snake oil salesman and gaslighting us about the chances of of his snake oil helping us when there is a better and more certain way to defend this country from an even worse second wave of deaths. And, yeah, I have skin in this game and shit like that annoys me.

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I agree with most of what you say and the purpose of the thread is the impact on policy of treatments with an understanding of what that entails including logistical issues too. This is a political topic and as you know Trump will seize upon anything he feels will help his "numbers", hopefully this will include an effective treatment option. I'm including vaccines and testing here too, both hot topics of interest and vital to any reopening, masks too are encouraged. I'm in full support of recommended expert action and will support such on this thread and on the forum, you know what that entails as well as I, the full package with no short cuts.

We are also having difficulty in meeting testing targets in Canada too, logistical issues as with you folks and I feel along with the experts reopening was too soon in some places and testing and contact tracing inadequate. There is a promising accurate cheap and fast virus tests that should be available later this summer that might help with that, here and there.

I try to warn what is coming next from these clowns, Donald seems to be trying to destroy America, but he's just living news cycle to news cycle trying to survive and keep his massive ego defended. This problem requires long term careful planning and coordination, and above all else leadership.skills Donald completely lacks. If he just put Fauci incharge in the beginning and played golf he'd be unbeatable in the fall, this death and destruction might just be the cost of freedom unfortunately.

DIY-HP-LED said:

I agree with most of what you say and the purpose of the thread is the impact on policy of treatments with an understanding of what that entails including logistical issues too. This is a political topic and as you know Trump will seize upon anything he feels will help his "numbers", hopefully this will include an effective treatment option. I'm including vaccines and testing here too, both hot topics of interest and vital to any reopening, masks too are encouraged. I'm in full support of recommended expert action and will support such on this thread and on the forum, you know what that entails as well as I, the full package with no short cuts.

We are also having difficulty in meeting testing targets in Canada too, logistical issues as with you folks and I feel along with the experts reopening was too soon in some places and testing and contact tracing inadequate. There is a promising accurate cheap and fast virus tests that should be available later this summer that might help with that, here and there.

I try to warn what is coming next from these clowns, Donald seems to be trying to destroy America, but he's just living news cycle to news cycle trying to survive and keep his massive ego defended. This problem requires long term careful planning and coordination, and above all else leadership.skills Donald completely lacks. If he just put Fauci incharge in the beginning and played golf he'd be unbeatable in the fall, this death and destruction might just be the cost of freedom unfortunately.

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Just so you know, your posts here are fair game. Would prefer if you do your informational posts elsewhere. When you clog up the pages of this forum with reams of unscientific or relatively worthless sciency crap, it's just another Trump propaganda win and makes you seem like one of his troll army.

Fogdog said:

Just so you know, your posts here are fair game. Would prefer if you do your informational posts elsewhere. When you clog up the pages of this forum with reams of unscientific or relatively worthless sciency crap, it's just another Trump propaganda win and makes you seem like one of his troll army.

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You say we when you mean you.
The admins can move inappropriate threads from the political section or lock them if the feel they are not useful or relevent. This is a thread of my own creation foggy that I'm cluttering up and its utility has been demonstrated by the interest and response of some members, though it is not suppose to be a popular thread here, that was not its intention. Broader more general threads are popular, Threads like jimmy's that I post to all the time, anything goes on those threads and james doesn't mind, he's here for a laugh too as am I.

We don't need self appointed appointed censors here, or orthodoxy enforced like an inquisition either, it looks ridiculous to people viewing the content.

DIY-HP-LED said:

You say we when you mean you.
The admins can move inappropriate threads from the political section or lock them if the feel they are not useful or relevent. This is a thread of my own creation foggy that I'm cluttering up and its utility has been demonstrated by the interest and response of some members, though it is not suppose to be a popular thread here, that was not its intention. Broader more general threads are popular, Threads like jimmy's that I post to all the time, anything goes on those threads and james doesn't mind, he's here for a laugh too as am I.

We don't need self appointed appointed censors here, or orthodoxy enforced like an inquisition either, it looks ridiculous to people viewing the content.

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I looked at my post and nowhere in there did I say "we". Yes, this is my opinion and others should feel free do disagree with me when I say that I think the sciency crap you post may be fairly interpreted as Trump Troll Army bullshit when its posted in the politics forum. If you clog up the political forum with sciency crap then it's fair to interpret it within the context of politics, which, let's face it, most of the sciency crap you post is in fact supportive of Trump's desire to deflect us.

I don't understand why you think it's appropriate to post a full article about a moon-shot vaccine in the politics forum unless you think it's somehow political. I think you are being a dunce and tool for Trump when you do.

Fogdog said:

I looked at my post and nowhere in there did I say "we". Yes, this is my opinion and others should feel free do disagree with me when I say that I think the sciency crap you post may be fairly interpreted as Trump Troll Army bullshit when its posted in the politics forum. If you clog up the political forum with sciency crap then it's fair to interpret it within the context of politics, which, let's face it, most of the sciency crap you post is in fact supportive of Trump's desire to deflect us.

I don't understand why you think it's appropriate to post a full article about a moon-shot vaccine in the politics forum unless you think it's somehow political. I think you are being a dunce and tool for Trump when you do.

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Sorry about the "we" I was mistaken, as I said your concerns will be addressed in a reasonable manner foggy, a reliable summary of such things will be used when I can find it and I will abridge the others or just post a link. Generally, if it's in the news or will be I'll cover it here.

Fogdog said:

I looked at my post and nowhere in there did I say "we". Yes, this is my opinion and others should feel free do disagree with me when I say that I think the sciency crap you post may be fairly interpreted as Trump Troll Army bullshit when its posted in the politics forum. If you clog up the political forum with sciency crap then it's fair to interpret it within the context of politics, which, let's face it, most of the sciency crap you post is in fact supportive of Trump's desire to deflect us.

I don't understand why you think it's appropriate to post a full article about a moon-shot vaccine in the politics forum unless you think it's somehow political. I think you are being a dunce and tool for Trump when you do.

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One other thing foggy, these treatment, vaccine and policy options concern more than just the domestic political situation in America, they concern my country and other international members. Sometimes I include context for such people in my posts on other threads, they don't get American TV or know much about the situation, most think Americans are nuts. This is an international forum, even the politics section and I've got Canadian a thread here too covering things of particular interest to Canadians. I will always take the domestic situation in the states seriously and do what I can to help, but Donald's anitics about anything, including HCQ don't have the impact they do in America, we are charting our own course as is everybody else. Donald politicised these topics and fostered division here too.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Sorry about the "we" I was mistaken, as I said your concerns will be addressed in a reasonable manner foggy, a reliable summary of such things will be used when I can find it and I will abridge the others or just post a link. Generally, if it's in the news or will be I'll cover it here.

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"We don't need self appointed appointed censors here, or orthodoxy enforced like an inquisition either, it looks ridiculous to people viewing the content. "

So, fuck that bit about censors. I'm not censoring, I am commenting on your stupid posts. If you want to clog up the pages of a political forum with dumb ass ignorant sciency crap, then you can at least take the heat for clogging up the pages of a political forum with dumb ass ignorant sciency crap. I gave you a valid alternative. Post your dumb ass ignorant sciency crap on a forum where dumb ass ignorant sciency crap is more appropriate. That you continue to demand from me the right to post dumb ass ignorant sciency crap here just goes to show that you are trying to censor me. I have every right to label dumb ass ignorant sciency crap when I see it. When I see dumb ass ignorant sciency crap that affirms Trump's political aims then I also have the right to say so. So, the next time I reply to one of your dumb ass ignorant sciency crappy posts and point out that your dumb ass ignorant sciency crap is part of Trump's political propaganda strategy to deflect away from his failure, don't complain about it.

DIY-HP-LED said:

One other thing foggy, these treatment, vaccine and policy options concern more than just the domestic political situation in America, they concern my country and other international members. Sometimes I include context for such people in my posts on other threads, they don't get American TV or know much about the situation, most think Americans are nuts. This is an international forum, even the politics section and I've got Canadian a thread here too covering things of particular interest to Canadians. I will always take the domestic situation in the states seriously and do what I can to help, but Donald's anitics about anything, including HCQ don't have the impact they do in America, we are charting our own course as is everybody else. Donald politicised these topics and fostered division here too.

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How about posting your dumb ass ignorant sciency crap in the forum for dumb ass ignorant sciency crap and not the political forum with it may rightly be interpreted as the dumb ass ignorant sciency propaganda that it is?

Fogdog said:

How about posting your dumb ass ignorant sciency crap in the forum for dumb ass ignorant sciency crap and not the political forum with it may rightly be interpreted as the dumb ass ignorant sciency propaganda that it is?

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Not a very good response foggy, looks bad to others, almost antisocial.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Not a very good response foggy, looks bad to others, almost antisocial.

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"We don't need self appointed appointed censors here, or orthodoxy enforced like an inquisition either, it looks ridiculous to people viewing the content. "

lulz "We"? You are saying,

DIY-HP-LED said:

You say we when you mean you.

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You are such an idiot, DIY.

All I'm saying is, don't get your knickers all twisted up when a post of yours about some irrelevant sciency bullshit that is obviously part of Trump's propaganda campaign is drubbed. You have alternatives to posting that crap in the political forum, where in the context of politics, it looks like a political propaganda post that supports the right wing agenda.

If that's your intent, then stand there and take it. If that's not, then you have a good alternative to looking like a Republican tool. Basically, quit whining.

Fogdog said:

"We don't need self appointed appointed censors here, or orthodoxy enforced like an inquisition either, it looks ridiculous to people viewing the content. "

lulz "We"? You are saying,



You are such an idiot, DIY.

All I'm saying is, don't get your knickers all twisted up when a post of yours about some irrelevant sciency bullshit that is obviously part of Trump's propaganda campaign is drubbed. You have alternatives to posting that crap in the political forum, where in the context of politics, it looks like a political propaganda post that supports the right wing agenda.

If that's your intent, then stand there and take it. If that's not, then you have a good alternative to looking like a Republican tool. Basically, quit whining.

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No problem foggy, just work on your presentation and social skills, I have no problem with civil discussion.

DIY-HP-LED said:

No problem foggy, just work on your presentation and social skills, I have no problem with civil discussion.

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stop censoring me

Fogdog said:

stop censoring me

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Speak your mind in a civil manner and you will be treated as such, but never as a Trumper. Stop with the fool and idiot stuff, that's what lead to AC's fall from grace and sounds puerile to others who are lurking. Not censorship, wise council.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Speak your mind in a civil manner and you will be treated as such, but never as a Trumper. Stop with the fool and idiot stuff, that's what lead to AC's fall from grace and sounds puerile to others who are lurking. Not censorship, wise council.

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censor

Wanna see stupid and irresponsible? Think dangerous potential treatment options are not a political football? Read below.
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Republicans Use Potentially Lethal Drug Hydroxychloroquine as Trump Bait

LOOK AT ME!
“With the way the media hates President Trump, if taking hydroxychloroquine was truly bad for him, they’d be encouraging it rather than having a meltdown,” one GOP hopeful tweeted.

President Donald Trump’s decision to tell the world he was taking hydroxychloroquine during the coronavirus pandemic sparked the kind of concern and backlash one would expect over a treatment that packs the chance of having deadly side effects.

But those medical worries weren’t as troubling to some long-shot Republican congressional candidates, who are grabbing the opportunity to use Trump’s embrace of the drug for himself as a way to show off their allegiance to the president.


“.@realDonaldTrump taking hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus is a kick-ass move that proves why he is the bravest and strongest of all American presidents,” James P. Bradley, a Republican U.S. House candidate in California, tweeted.

“You’d have to be extremely naïve to believe that none of these Democrats knocking @POTUS are also taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure,” Errol Webber, a GOP congressional candidate in California, tweeted after Trump touted taking the drug.

In an interview, Lauren Boebert, a Republican congressional candidate in Colorado running to the right of GOP incumbent Scott Tipton, criticized those who were quick to go against the treatment.

“With the way the media hates President Trump, if taking hydroxychloroquine was truly bad for him, they’d be encouraging it rather than having a meltdown,” Boebert tweeted on May 20.
more...

DIY-HP-LED said:

Wanna see stupid and irresponsible? Think dangerous potential treatment options are not a political football? Read below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republicans Use Potentially Lethal Drug Hydroxychloroquine as Trump Bait

“With the way the media hates President Trump, if taking hydroxychloroquine was truly bad for him, they’d be encouraging it rather than having a meltdown,” one GOP hopeful tweeted.

www.thedailybeast.com

Republicans Use Potentially Lethal Drug Hydroxychloroquine as Trump Bait

LOOK AT ME!
“With the way the media hates President Trump, if taking hydroxychloroquine was truly bad for him, they’d be encouraging it rather than having a meltdown,” one GOP hopeful tweeted.

President Donald Trump’s decision to tell the world he was taking hydroxychloroquine during the coronavirus pandemic sparked the kind of concern and backlash one would expect over a treatment that packs the chance of having deadly side effects.

But those medical worries weren’t as troubling to some long-shot Republican congressional candidates, who are grabbing the opportunity to use Trump’s embrace of the drug for himself as a way to show off their allegiance to the president.


“.@realDonaldTrump taking hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus is a kick-ass move that proves why he is the bravest and strongest of all American presidents,” James P. Bradley, a Republican U.S. House candidate in California, tweeted.

“You’d have to be extremely naïve to believe that none of these Democrats knocking @POTUS are also taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure,” Errol Webber, a GOP congressional candidate in California, tweeted after Trump touted taking the drug.

In an interview, Lauren Boebert, a Republican congressional candidate in Colorado running to the right of GOP incumbent Scott Tipton, criticized those who were quick to go against the treatment.

“With the way the media hates President Trump, if taking hydroxychloroquine was truly bad for him, they’d be encouraging it rather than having a meltdown,” Boebert tweeted on May 20.
more...

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A dog returns to his own vomit.

Marijuana could regulate the main gateway COVID-19 enters host cells in patients, new research concludes.




A new study published in the journal Preprints, which is not peer-reviewed, finds certain marijuana strains could prevent the spread and severity of COVID-19. It’s all tied to how the coronavirus is transmitted between patients. Like most respiratory illnesses, tiny droplets carrying the disease expelled by coughing or sneezing go airborne. Once a non-infected patient inhales those droplets, it typically enters your body through cells in your lungs and corresponding tissue.

The scientific community has recently identified the ACE2 protein as the primary gateway the coronavirus infects patients. Researchers suspect modulating the level of proteins present in a patients could prevent susceptibility to the disease. In a study completed before the pandemic, researchers had observed the combination of THC and CBD cannabinoids could lower gene expressions that produce and regulate ACE2 proteins.


This made researchers from the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada curious. After all, it could mean cannabis might help prevent the coronavirus from infecting patients. The scientists corroborated the findings, though they were using cannabis oils on human cultures that contained ACE2 proteins.

Novel combinations of cannabinoids “may become a useful addition to the treatment of COVID-19,” the researchers wrote. “They may also be used to develop additional easy-to-use preventative strategies such as mouth wash and throat gargle products that may be tested for their potential to decrease viral entry via the oral cavity and may be used both in clinical practice and at-home treatment.”

According to the researchers, the most effective marijuana profiles to decrease ACE2 production were a 1:21 THC-to-CBD ratio oil and a 1:3 ratio oil. These disparate ratios caused scientists to conclude other cannabis properties could be playing a role in regulating reduced ACE2 activity. Israeli researchers recently identified cannabis terpenes as possible antiviral agents and have begun testing their effectiveness against the coronavirus.

RELATED: Israel Researchers Believe CBD Could Play Crucial Role In COVID-19 Treatment

“While our most efficacious extracts require further validation in a large-scale analysis and an animal model, our study is crucial for the future analysis of the effects of medical cannabis on COVID-19,” concluded the researchers. “Given the current dire and rapidly developing epidemiological situation, every possible therapeutic opportunity and avenue needs to be considered.”

*Lights fatass cone ... grins

Fogdog said:

A dog returns to his own vomit.

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You got the handle fog DOG, not me! Speaking from personal experience?