Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
I like honey ..... just sayin
Coronavirus treatment options and the impact on public policy
- Thread starter DIY-HP-LED
- Start date
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It's easy when your intention is to discover the truth, much more difficult if you only seek to win an argument.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Me too. I just had some toast with honey on it. I told my wife it was so that I could go to strip clubs and not bring the virus back to her.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that vitamin D has therapeutic value for people infected with or exposed to the virus.
If one wants the truth, there it is.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Another take on this controversial topic, not just with the public either, but with in the scientific and medical world.
www.medicinenet.com
What Role Does Vitamin D Play in Reducing the Severity of COVID-19?
Becky McCall
May 17, 2020
The mainstream media was flooded this week with reports speculating on what role, if any, vitamin D may play in reducing the severity of COVID-19 infection.
Observational data comparing outcomes from various countries suggest inverse links between vitamin D levels and the severity of COVID-19 responses, as well as mortality, with the further suggestion of an effect of vitamin D on the immune response to infection.
But other studies question such a link, including any association between vitamin D concentration and differences in COVID-19 severity by ethnic group.
And while some researchers and clinicians believe people should get tested to see if they have adequate vitamin D levels during this pandemic — in particular frontline healthcare workers — most doctors say the best way to ensure that people have adequate levels of vitamin D during COVID-19 is to simply take supplements at currently recommended levels.
This is especially important given the fact, that during 'lockdown' scenarios, many people are spending more time than usual indoors.
Clifford Rosen, MD, senior scientist at Maine Medical Center's Research Institute in Scarborough, has been researching vitamin D for 25 years.
"There's no randomized controlled trial for sure, and that's the gold standard," he told Medscape Medical News, and "the observational data are so confounded, it's difficult to know."
Whether from diet or supplementation, having adequate vitamin D is important, especially for those at the highest risk of COVID-19, he says. Still, robust data supporting a role of vitamin D in prevention of COVID-19, or as any kind of 'therapy' for the infection, are currently lacking.
Rose Anne Kenny, MD, professor of medical gerontology at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland, recently coauthored an article detailing an inverse association between vitamin D levels and mortality from COVID-19 across countries in Europe.
"At no stage are any of us saying this is a given, but there's a probability that [vitamin D] — a low-hanging fruit — is a contributory factor and we can do something about it now," she told Medscape Medical News.
Kenny is calling for the Irish government to formally change their recommendations. "We call on the Irish government to update guidelines as a matter of urgency and encourage all adults to take [vitamin D] supplements during the COVID-19 crisis." Northern Ireland, part of the UK, also has not yet made this recommendation, she said.
Meanwhile, Harpreet S. Bajaj MD, MPH, a practicing endocrinologist from Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada, said: "Vitamin D could have any of three potential roles in risk for COVID-19 and/or its severity: no role, simply a marker, or a causal factor."
Bajaj says — as do Rosen and Kenny — that randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are sorely needed to help ascertain whether there is a specific role of vitamin D.
"Until then, we should continue to follow established public health recommendations for vitamin D supplementation, in addition to following COVID-19 prevention guidance and evolving guidelines for COVID-19 treatment."
more...
Vitamin D: A Low-Hanging Fruit in COVID-19?
The mainstream media was flooded this week with reports speculating on what role, if any, vitamin D may play in reducing the severity of COVID-19 infection.
What Role Does Vitamin D Play in Reducing the Severity of COVID-19?
Becky McCall
May 17, 2020
The mainstream media was flooded this week with reports speculating on what role, if any, vitamin D may play in reducing the severity of COVID-19 infection.
Observational data comparing outcomes from various countries suggest inverse links between vitamin D levels and the severity of COVID-19 responses, as well as mortality, with the further suggestion of an effect of vitamin D on the immune response to infection.
But other studies question such a link, including any association between vitamin D concentration and differences in COVID-19 severity by ethnic group.
And while some researchers and clinicians believe people should get tested to see if they have adequate vitamin D levels during this pandemic — in particular frontline healthcare workers — most doctors say the best way to ensure that people have adequate levels of vitamin D during COVID-19 is to simply take supplements at currently recommended levels.
This is especially important given the fact, that during 'lockdown' scenarios, many people are spending more time than usual indoors.
Clifford Rosen, MD, senior scientist at Maine Medical Center's Research Institute in Scarborough, has been researching vitamin D for 25 years.
"There's no randomized controlled trial for sure, and that's the gold standard," he told Medscape Medical News, and "the observational data are so confounded, it's difficult to know."
Whether from diet or supplementation, having adequate vitamin D is important, especially for those at the highest risk of COVID-19, he says. Still, robust data supporting a role of vitamin D in prevention of COVID-19, or as any kind of 'therapy' for the infection, are currently lacking.
Rose Anne Kenny, MD, professor of medical gerontology at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland, recently coauthored an article detailing an inverse association between vitamin D levels and mortality from COVID-19 across countries in Europe.
"At no stage are any of us saying this is a given, but there's a probability that [vitamin D] — a low-hanging fruit — is a contributory factor and we can do something about it now," she told Medscape Medical News.
Kenny is calling for the Irish government to formally change their recommendations. "We call on the Irish government to update guidelines as a matter of urgency and encourage all adults to take [vitamin D] supplements during the COVID-19 crisis." Northern Ireland, part of the UK, also has not yet made this recommendation, she said.
Meanwhile, Harpreet S. Bajaj MD, MPH, a practicing endocrinologist from Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada, said: "Vitamin D could have any of three potential roles in risk for COVID-19 and/or its severity: no role, simply a marker, or a causal factor."
Bajaj says — as do Rosen and Kenny — that randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are sorely needed to help ascertain whether there is a specific role of vitamin D.
"Until then, we should continue to follow established public health recommendations for vitamin D supplementation, in addition to following COVID-19 prevention guidance and evolving guidelines for COVID-19 treatment."
more...
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You probably haven't read it yet, but here are the facts:Another take on this controversial topic, not just with the public either, but with in the scientific and medical world.
Vitamin D: A Low-Hanging Fruit in COVID-19?
The mainstream media was flooded this week with reports speculating on what role, if any, vitamin D may play in reducing the severity of COVID-19 infection.
What Role Does Vitamin D Play in Reducing the Severity of COVID-19?
Becky McCall
May 17, 2020
The mainstream media was flooded this week with reports speculating on what role, if any, vitamin D may play in reducing the severity of COVID-19 infection.
Observational data comparing outcomes from various countries suggest inverse links between vitamin D levels and the severity of COVID-19 responses, as well as mortality, with the further suggestion of an effect of vitamin D on the immune response to infection.
But other studies question such a link, including any association between vitamin D concentration and differences in COVID-19 severity by ethnic group.
And while some researchers and clinicians believe people should get tested to see if they have adequate vitamin D levels during this pandemic — in particular frontline healthcare workers — most doctors say the best way to ensure that people have adequate levels of vitamin D during COVID-19 is to simply take supplements at currently recommended levels.
This is especially important given the fact, that during 'lockdown' scenarios, many people are spending more time than usual indoors.
Clifford Rosen, MD, senior scientist at Maine Medical Center's Research Institute in Scarborough, has been researching vitamin D for 25 years.
"There's no randomized controlled trial for sure, and that's the gold standard," he told Medscape Medical News, and "the observational data are so confounded, it's difficult to know."
Whether from diet or supplementation, having adequate vitamin D is important, especially for those at the highest risk of COVID-19, he says. Still, robust data supporting a role of vitamin D in prevention of COVID-19, or as any kind of 'therapy' for the infection, are currently lacking.
Rose Anne Kenny, MD, professor of medical gerontology at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland, recently coauthored an article detailing an inverse association between vitamin D levels and mortality from COVID-19 across countries in Europe.
"At no stage are any of us saying this is a given, but there's a probability that [vitamin D] — a low-hanging fruit — is a contributory factor and we can do something about it now," she told Medscape Medical News.
Kenny is calling for the Irish government to formally change their recommendations. "We call on the Irish government to update guidelines as a matter of urgency and encourage all adults to take [vitamin D] supplements during the COVID-19 crisis." Northern Ireland, part of the UK, also has not yet made this recommendation, she said.
Meanwhile, Harpreet S. Bajaj MD, MPH, a practicing endocrinologist from Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Canada, said: "Vitamin D could have any of three potential roles in risk for COVID-19 and/or its severity: no role, simply a marker, or a causal factor."
Bajaj says — as do Rosen and Kenny — that randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are sorely needed to help ascertain whether there is a specific role of vitamin D.
"Until then, we should continue to follow established public health recommendations for vitamin D supplementation, in addition to following COVID-19 prevention guidance and evolving guidelines for COVID-19 treatment."
more...
there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that vitamin D has therapeutic value for people infected with or exposed to the virus.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I've been saying that in my posts too as have the papers I've posted. This last article illustrates the difference of opinion on this matter with in the medical and research community, everybody agrees more work needs to be done and proof obtained. There will be discussion of this matter until a definitive study is released and I can see several in the works. In the meantime there is a rather urgent matter at hand and the media is full of it, these were two examples of responsible medical reporting and they were right off the top of the news as opposed to websites. This information is being disseminated like it or not and often irresponsibly by the media and websites, professional journalists who cover science and medical topics will write the ones I just posted. Though everybody here is free to have an opinion and speculate to their heart's content, truth seeking involves patience too, there is currently no proof of this idea yet, but that does not mean there will not be any in the future and with an acute illness of this importance it shouldn't take that long to find out, one way or the other.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I run a friendly thread Dudley and try to be civil to decent folks, Trumpers I make an exception for, all others get a fair shake I'm usually patient and kind with the merely misguided and thin skinned. Poor AC got burned at the scientific stake for heresy, but he was unrepentant and pride goeth before the fall. For whom the Gods seek to destroy they first make mad and we've seen some examples!
Perhaps he'll be back to haunt his tormentors and waits lurking for his chance for revenge and retribution...
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
turmeric boost immunity too.I run a friendly thread Dudley and try to be civil to decent folks, Trumpers I make an exception for, all others get a fair shake I'm usually patient and kind with the merely misguided and thin skinned. Poor AC got burned at the scientific stake for heresy, but he was unrepentant and pride goeth before the fall. For whom the Gods seek to destroy they first make mad and we've seen some examples!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Put it on the folk remedies thread foggy
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Its exactly as woo-woo as this therad deserves.Put it on the folk remedies thread foggy
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Well, woo woo to you too!
No points for wit and you've only seen half of it! Halfwit foggy, get it eh?
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
I actually thought his topic was a great subject to debate. I started to troll him for no other reason than I think he was an arrogant asshole that called everyone stupid that didn’t agree, nothing more. I would welcome him back though, just not the superior attitude.I run a friendly thread Dudley and try to be civil to decent folks, Trumpers I make an exception for, all others get a fair shake I'm usually patient and kind with the merely misguided and thin skinned. Poor AC got burned at the scientific stake for heresy, but he was unrepentant and pride goeth before the fall. For whom the Gods seek to destroy they first make mad and we've seen some examples!
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
That was my point Dudley, pride goeth before the fall, though I figure he's under a lot of stress and his life in paradise might be over, he's gotta come up with a plan B and come to terms with his loss, tourists will be along time coming back. He seems like a smart and resourceful fellow though, so I'm confident he'll do ok.
How ya keeping Dudley, things ok with Rob's reopening plan?
I'm not too sure about the testing levels and what about contact tracing? I might have to do some homework on that one. I don't like how the country is doing when compared to others, if yer gonna lock down to control this fucking thing and beat it back, then make it a goddamn REALLY strict one, test, contact trace and case isolate FFS, people giving it to family members just prolongs the pain.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Wait.....what? You have open strip clubs? Ok I need to start protesting
.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Ya well they actually got the numbers wrong by about 80 less than actual new cases on Thursday but we’ll see I guess. I’m working from home and still isolating except for groceries, everything else is delivered. I don’t expect to be back till end of June at least. We have not had a new case in two weeks in my area which is in between Toronto and Ottawa near Kingston. Our office is open but with limited personnel to keep distancing viable.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It's stretching out too long in Canada and it's because we weren't tight enough, Walmarts and hardware stores were open here, but we don't have a high case rate on the island. There was a case at my sisters nursing home a few weeks back, but they appear to have contained things, I didn't know about it until last week and was a bit pissed. Most of the cases here are in the Halifax area and that is where the international airport is and many arrived from europe there or passed through. It looks like it might be quite some time before the border with the states is reopened and they better cough up some money for the people or it's gonna be an economic catastrophe as well as a humanitarian one.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Haven't seen a peeler since I was in the peg, there used to be a bar right across the street from work, dunno if this old heart could take it after years of stabbing grannies on plenty of fish, even hunted the odd cougar, though only in bars...Wait.....what? You have open strip clubs? Ok I need to start protesting
Puff_Dragon
Well-Known Member
Please make sure to research (using medical experts with good qualifications and no history of pushing dodgy cure-alls etc).
Look for words like double blind, peer reviewed ..and, avoid anyone who derides such terms (non of them will have valid qualifications in relevant fields).
For the moment; any claims of a 'cure' or preventative (especially from unaccountable people or organisations), take with a pinch of salt.
For example vitamins being a cure/preventative. We obviously all need balanced vitamins ..but the benefits against illness are often over stated.
I did a basic search and was shocked at the amount of disinformation there is online. The number of 'alternative' medicine claims is quite shocking.
In fact, the current 'cure-alls' are the same ones rolled out time and time again (in the past) when people are trying to make a quick buck from peoples suffering. TCM (including acupuncture etc etc) have also been making spurious claims (not helping the infection or peoples suffering).
I'm sure having a health body 'helps' with a lot of things ..but, it doesn't help as much as you may believe with strong illness. Part of a 'health lifestyle' sure, but sadly not a silver bullet that buffs your immune system to '+20 Corona-19 Destruction' levels. If a person infected with CV-19 coughs on you (simplistic example, I know). No amount of 'whatever' will really help your chances of getting it.
Don't rely on these to help reduce social distancing, distancing specific age groups, washing hands etc.
I've already had to deal with young people who, after ignoring social distancing (being part of the conspiracy of disinformation), return to their houses and infect their parents and grandparents ...trust me, no one wants that on their conscious for the rest of their lives.
Peace.
Look for words like double blind, peer reviewed ..and, avoid anyone who derides such terms (non of them will have valid qualifications in relevant fields).
For the moment; any claims of a 'cure' or preventative (especially from unaccountable people or organisations), take with a pinch of salt.
For example vitamins being a cure/preventative. We obviously all need balanced vitamins ..but the benefits against illness are often over stated.
I did a basic search and was shocked at the amount of disinformation there is online. The number of 'alternative' medicine claims is quite shocking.
In fact, the current 'cure-alls' are the same ones rolled out time and time again (in the past) when people are trying to make a quick buck from peoples suffering. TCM (including acupuncture etc etc) have also been making spurious claims (not helping the infection or peoples suffering).
I'm sure having a health body 'helps' with a lot of things ..but, it doesn't help as much as you may believe with strong illness. Part of a 'health lifestyle' sure, but sadly not a silver bullet that buffs your immune system to '+20 Corona-19 Destruction' levels. If a person infected with CV-19 coughs on you (simplistic example, I know). No amount of 'whatever' will really help your chances of getting it.
Don't rely on these to help reduce social distancing, distancing specific age groups, washing hands etc.
I've already had to deal with young people who, after ignoring social distancing (being part of the conspiracy of disinformation), return to their houses and infect their parents and grandparents ...trust me, no one wants that on their conscious for the rest of their lives.
Peace.
Last edited:
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Hi Puff,
I've covered vitamin D here because there has been some recent research specific to covid -19 and in some cases extraordinary observations of correlations by highly qualified people. This is evidence, but it is not of a very high standard, it merely indicates an area that should be looked into urgently and it is. Vitamin D deficiency is widespread and it appears people who have these deficiencies do worst with covid -19. There might be enough evidence to recommend supplementation in some cases since there is a big potential upside and no downside to speak of.
I'm familiar with the health an nutrition "world" of which you speak and I'm not a vitamin "freak" or a "natural cures" advocate, this one falls into a slightly different category in that it is being taken seriously by experts, has strong indicative data behind it, has a good theoretical bases and meshes with other research, it is being further studied with proper controlled and blinded studies that may actually find causation, or proof as I like to term it. The current studies do not prove anything and some say there is no evidence, though I would be more precise and say there is no proof, there is evidence, but its not strong or of high enough quality, but it indicates it is worth a further look.
The focus here is mostly on effective treatments that will be used by medical professionals to lower the Case Fatality Rate of Covid -19 and the impact of that on policy if they get good enough at treatment to lower the mortality rate significantly. We need all the other NPIs and measures IMHO, as treatments get more effective they will become an increasing factor over time. Even after we get to a vaccine, there will be many vulnerable people and the treatment options being developed now will benefit them the most. Both the supportive therapies and protocols, and the antiviral agents being studied now will help in the near future as well as the longer term.