Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
To help break down dead root material. I use Hygrozyme to treat used soil before re-use, throw it in a bin, water in the enzymes and let it cook.
Could Kelp extracts be a waste of money?
- Thread starter legallyflying
- Start date
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
In that case, i would strongly recommend against trying to brew some kind of malted barley-enzyme-tea. It'll stink like a dead body that's gone sour.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Nothing a little Lysol and lime won't cure.
haole420
Active Member
i think we're talking about two different kinds of roasted barley. the kind i use isn't used for brewing. it's made into a very light tea (for humans). tastes like popcorn, not bitter or chocolately.
regarding plants not being able to use hormones or vitamins, perhaps folks aren't familiar with what the ingredients in things like superthrive or AN vitaboost.
i don't get anything funky when i bubble it, as i don't "brew" it into a "tea." it's mostly food for microbes plus the bonus vitamins, minerals, and hormones. i'm not after nor claiming any crazy enzymatic activity. as long you keep it aerated and at room temperature, it's fine.
it also doesn't look like those photos. it's still light-colored on the inside. lightly roasted barley, let's say, to be more precise. and again, it ain't the shit you use to brew beer. it's also not malted (germinated).
haole420
Active Member
heat typically denatures enzymes rendering their active sites useless.
haole420
Active Member
http://www.ehow.com/info_7839193_fertilizers-humic-acid-vitamin-c.htmlI realize this, but plants do not eat "vitamins, hormones, and carbs"......they make them.
haole420
Active Member
what's the point of putting molasses in feed? refined sugar, molasses, barley, oats, rice, fucking white bread is all the same thing to microbes: carbohydrates. what's the big deal? what's all the "oh my god! barley?! wtf?! that's stupid." whatever. i drink the shit. instead of throwing it into the trash, it goes in the bucket i bubble up my feed in.From roasted barley????? Really? I've been growing for going on 20 years now and I have NEVER heard of anyone using roasted barley for growing ANYTHING! I'm sure it does have some NPK and some micronutes when broken down but how much? People use all kinds of shit for growing and I'm not saying he's wrong or anything like it. If he believes roasted barley or battery acid is making his buds better than who am I to judge? I wasn't the only member who reacted this way ya know?
comparing it to batter acid doesn't make a whole lot of sense. but then again, it's not uncommon for folks who have been doing things a certain way for a long time to get stuck in their ways. that's why the young eventually take over and the old, well, they just become obsolete.
and to suggest that because many people have a particular view that it is correct clearly shows certain people's lack of familiarity with logical reasoning. the majority of people in the U.S. believe that mj shouldn't be legal. are they right? the majority of people in the world are muslim. does that make them right? world is flat? slavery is cool? truly old school, man. but whatever, it's all groovy, man.
what uneducated folks on this forum don't realize is that most living things are made up of the same compounds.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I think the point is that there are more efficient ways to feed microbes, if they even need fed in the first place. The plants and the fungi already have a symbiotic relationship.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
I think I should add a little info. Talked to a mycologist the other day, and he told me that many species of mycorrhiza will not eat sugars that you add, they will only feed and live off roots.
haole420
Active Member
there are 2 kinds of mycos: ones that live only outside roots and ones that live symbiotically with/on/in roots. so, sure, certain kinds of myco can only COLONIZE or live with roots, but that doesn't mean they can't feed. how do you think roots feed them? with a spoon? a straw? roots just stick the sugar next to the myco cell. at some point the myco cell has to absorb sugar across the cell membrane via active transport. that active transport mechanism has no idea where the sugar is coming from. as long as sugar is next to the cell, it's going to transport it into the cell and use it. it's not going to sit there and pick and choose and say, "oh, i don't want to eat this sugar molecule because it didn't come from roots and people on RIU said i'm only supposed to eat shit that comes out of roots." ask that same mycologist how a myco cell determines that a sugar molecule came from a root and not somewhere else.
arbuscular myco do form specialized structures for nutrient exchange with host plant cells, but that doesn't mean they can't absorb sugar that's just hanging out. afterall, myco undergo a "pre-symbiotic" phase in which it hangs out NEXT TO the root getting ready to infect it. it feeds on sugars found in root exudates IN THE SOIL and not through arbuscules, since they haven't even formed yet. during this period it is feeding off of stuff IN THE SOIL, so why wouldn't it feed on any sugars i put in there with it?
as far as plants not being able to absorb sugars, that's bullshit. not only can roots absorb sugars, they can adsorb them as well. http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/3/521.short So then it must follow that even if a particular myco cell lives inside the cortex of the root (and not all do), the root is capable of absorbing sugars from the soil (as long as the correct osmotic gradient is present) and feeding that myco cell with exogenous sugar.
haole420
Active Member
getting them to multiply in a bucket before application is cheaper than just adding a ton of the shit to water and dumping it onto my soil/coco plants. it's also not a free ride for the plant. symbiosis means they both get something out of it. the myco gets food, protection, etc. in exchange for helping the plant absorb certain nutrients. the food that feeds myco comes from photosynthesis. that means that it is using plant energy that otherwise wouldn't been used for other PLANT processes.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Don't shoot the messenger dude. Yeah, plants excrete sugars that fungus eat..but do they excrete molasses? All I know that I was told that in a lab setting, some species did not feed on sugar solutions.
My understanding about sugar uptake was that it is extremely limited by the casparian strip. So monosaccharides, to some extent but polysaccharides no. I'll read that link though sounds interesting, even though I can't use sugars in my dwc.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying that I want to do it, just relaying what I read.
Joedank
Well-Known Member
going back to kelp heres the link to some crazy kelp shit http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/seaweed.html
and to para phrase:As far as soil-conditioning is concerned -- and that is all we are to consider for the moment -- bacterial activity in the presence of seaweed has two results: first the secretion of substances which further help to condition the soil; and second, an effect on the nitrogen content of the soil. We will deal with these in turn.
The substances secreted by soil bacteria in the presence of seaweed include organic chemicals known as polyuronides. Polyuronides are chemically similar to the soil conditioner alginic acid, whose direct effect on the soil we have already noticed, and themselves have soil-stabilizing properties. This means that to the soil-conditioning agent which the soil derives from undecomposed seaweed -- alginic acid -- other conditioning agents are later added: the polyuronides, which result from the decomposition of seaweed.
The second effect of adding seaweed, or seaweed meal, to a soil well populated with bacteria, has already been mentioned briefly. It is a more complex matter, and requires consideration in some detail. Basically, the addition of seaweed leads to a temporary diminution of nitrogen available for crops, then a considerable augmentation of the nitrogen total.
When seaweed, or indeed any undecomposed organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any undecomposed vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows. Farmers burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw.
It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth.
and to para phrase:As far as soil-conditioning is concerned -- and that is all we are to consider for the moment -- bacterial activity in the presence of seaweed has two results: first the secretion of substances which further help to condition the soil; and second, an effect on the nitrogen content of the soil. We will deal with these in turn.
The substances secreted by soil bacteria in the presence of seaweed include organic chemicals known as polyuronides. Polyuronides are chemically similar to the soil conditioner alginic acid, whose direct effect on the soil we have already noticed, and themselves have soil-stabilizing properties. This means that to the soil-conditioning agent which the soil derives from undecomposed seaweed -- alginic acid -- other conditioning agents are later added: the polyuronides, which result from the decomposition of seaweed.
The second effect of adding seaweed, or seaweed meal, to a soil well populated with bacteria, has already been mentioned briefly. It is a more complex matter, and requires consideration in some detail. Basically, the addition of seaweed leads to a temporary diminution of nitrogen available for crops, then a considerable augmentation of the nitrogen total.
When seaweed, or indeed any undecomposed organic matter, is put into the soil, it is attacked by bacteria which break the material down into simpler units -- in a word, decompose it. To do this effectively the bacteria need nitrogen, and this they take from the first available source, the soil. This means that after seaweed has been added to the soil, there is a period during which the amount of soil nitrogen available to plants is reduced. During this period seed germination, and the feeding and growth of plants, can be inhibited to greater or lesser degree. This temporary nitrogen deficiency is brought about when any undecomposed vegetable matter is added to the soil. In the case of straw, for example, which is ploughed in after harvest, bacteria use up soil nitrogen in breaking down its cellulose, so that a 'latent' period follows. Farmers burn stubble after harvest to avoid this latent period, and the short-term loss of available nitrogen which causes it. But such stubble-burning is done at the cost of soil structure, soil fertility, and long-term supplies of nitrogen which ultimately would have been released from the decomposed straw.
It has been said by one authority that the latent period following the application of seaweed to the soil is one of fifteen weeks. But during this period, while there is a temporary shortage of available nitrogen, total nitrogen in the soil is being increased. This increase makes itself felt after the seaweed is completely broken down. Total nitrogen then becomes available to the plant, and there is a corresponding upsurge in plant growth.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly???? The latent period following the application of seaweed is 1 to 15 weeks? That is a really huge gap! My plants only live about 12-14 weeks total. It would seem to suggest that SOME organic amendments and methods are relatively useless for indoor growing?
doc111
Well-Known Member
You're calling ME uneducated? lmfao!!!!!! Ok there pal!
Re-read the post. I didn't compare anything to battery acid. I said "if he thinks roasted barley or battery acid are making his buds better....." meaning I could care less if he uses battery acid or any other thing for growing. I simply made the comment that I had never heard of anybody using "roasted barley" for growing, and I've heard of people using just about everything for growing, including piss, human shit, PERIOD BLOOD!!!!!!
Use whatever the fuck you think makes your plants better, what do I care? I just think it's funny how people who've been growing for a couple of years try to tell me I'm uneducated. I've been doing this for almost 20 years now and I've tried virtually every product and method there is. Most don't do shit IMO. There are a lot of forum myths and I get a little irritated from time to time when I see these myths being perpetuated or new ones being started. FYI, I have a Master's Degree in Chemistry. I'm neither uneducated nor old. You go ahead and think whatever you'd like to about me but perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension before you go off on another member like that again.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Fertilizer companies put all kinds of bullshit into their products! So what? Just because one fert (or a hundred for that matter) are putting Vitamin C into their ferts doesn't mean that the plant gets any benefit from it. Link me to a peer reviewed scietific study showing that plants NEED additional Vitamin C for growth (other than the Vitamin C they manufacture themselves) and maybe I'll change my thinking. My friend, I've tried a lot of these "magic potions" and "snake oils". I've tried numerous products and most don't work any better than a basic complete fertilizer. I don't add any Vitamins, carbs or anything besides good soil and a complete, high quality fertilizer and water. This is what I grow:
Vortex~
White Widow~
Blueberry~
I may not use 'roasted barley' or 'vitamin c' or 'hormones' but I still grow some pretty dank plants.............and guess what? They are healthy and nice and green up until harvest!
Vortex in veg~
Dry Vortex Shots~
Attachments
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
For some strange reason, unlike ANY culture of ANY other kind of plant material, this community is not content unless it is turning a weed into something it's not. There's every kind of silliness when it comes to products and culture complete with drama and romance.....I'm uneducated. I've been doing this for almost 20 years now and I've tried virtually every product and method there is. Most don't do shit IMO. There are a lot of forum myths and I get a little irritated from time to time when I see these myths being perpetuated or new ones being started.
Vortex in veg~
BTW, nice veg plant! That is what cannabis should look like - full of healthy green leaves. Here's one of my Haze X Peak19 males I destroyed as another example:
doc111
Well-Known Member
Why, thank you sir! And guess what? I grew all those plants (and continue to grow them) without using a single cannabis specific product! I've tried a LOT of those cannabis specific products and while some may work, I have not noticed an increase in potency, yield or resin production. I get the same or better results using high quality, complete fertilizers (not cannabis specific, mind you) at a fraction of the cost. Anybody who wants to use those products is certainly free to do so (I have nothing against them per se), but it does piss me off when I see someone say or imply that you can't get decent bud without using canna specific products. It's simply not the case.
