crab meal vs. oyster shell

bmgnoot · May 9, 2016

anyone clever have an opinion or information on any significant difference between lobster meal and crab meal? aside from the calcium which i get plenty of from other sources. at a glance its very similar.. lobster being 6-2-0 with 8% calciuim, 1% magnesium 1.5% iron, 2% available phosphate, 5% water insoluble, 1 % water soluble nitrogen. crab 4-3-0 with 14% calcium. or differing values depending on where its sourced..

MistaRasta · May 10, 2016

bmgnoot said:
ahh this was the thread i was reading some neem debate in recently. saw a pile of these next to the door as i was leaving my local grow shop(was planning to order some from ahimsa website in a week when i got back from vacation) so i asked what he wanted for them.."umm 5 bucks each" he says.. the 5lb bag is $10 direct from ahimsa neemresource.com and even the 44lb bag is more than the $1/pound i paid.. DTE neem is around $17 for 5 pounds on amazon... so ya, even though i only need a bag or 2 for my next 6-8 months of growing i bought em all. thought it was a pretty good score. $45 for #45 tax & shipping free.View attachment 3677526

Badass

MistaRasta · May 10, 2016

testiclees said:
I use alfalfa straw to mulch all my flowering plants. I get very large buds and ive not noticed leafier growth.

Characterizing the effects of alfalfa products without a reasonable estimate of tria content might be useless. How would anyone quantify the actual tria dosage when using random alfalfa products? Or know if tria is impacting the plants at all?

What else would be the determining factor in rapid growth?
Being I have a healthy soil and all my trace minerals, nitrogen, sulfur and calcium are already there I would conclude that it indeed is the tria giving me more rapid growth leading to larger yields..

It sure isn't the amount of phosphorus..

MistaRasta · May 10, 2016

bmgnoot said:
anyone clever have an opinion or information on any significant difference between lobster meal and crab meal? aside from the calcium which i get plenty of from other sources. at a glance its very similar.. lobster being 6-2-0 with 8% calciuim, 1% magnesium 1.5% iron, 2% available phosphate, 5% water insoluble, 1 % water soluble nitrogen. crab 4-3-0 with 14% calcium. or differing values depending on where its sourced..

I'd factor in the calcium value, adapt that to your base recipe and pick the cheaper of the two.

Are you getting the lobster meal locally? Shrimp meal is almost the same with more phosphorus, it's about 4% more

greasemonkeymann · May 10, 2016

bmgnoot said:
anyone clever have an opinion or information on any significant difference between lobster meal and crab meal? aside from the calcium which i get plenty of from other sources. at a glance its very similar.. lobster being 6-2-0 with 8% calciuim, 1% magnesium 1.5% iron, 2% available phosphate, 5% water insoluble, 1 % water soluble nitrogen. crab 4-3-0 with 14% calcium. or differing values depending on where its sourced..

personally I wouldn't differentiate between the two much, I've seen crab meals that are 5-2-0
I really like shrimp meal, but it is a faster release form of crab meal, so in my mixes, when I re-amend, I consider crab and shrimp meal the "same", that being a slow release of liming nitrogen with chitin and calcium. The phosphorus I don't really count much.
but i'd say it's safe to say lobster and crab meals are pretty close to the same, if anything i'd guess that lobster meal would be a slower release, but that's just assumed on the thickness of the shell. But that's just a guess.

DonTesla · May 10, 2016

hyroot said:
Not a side by side. But I noticed a big difference after I stopped using it.

You're referring to the leaf ratio right or pungent part or both happened same time?

im wondering, Did you do ANYtHING else different the round you noticed the pungency pop cause that's the dilemma I'm in..

It happened to me when i upped the kelp AND neem and added FBMeal first time

Could it be that its the alfafa that increases the nodes (and perhaps leafage as well) while its the fish bone meal and kelp that makes the smells and flavours pop?

Curious,
DT

DonTesla · May 10, 2016

st0wandgrow said:
Huh. Might have to try a batch without it.

Just when you think you have it all figured out...lol

Always room for improvement, a wise man once said..

Shoot, I kinda Figure one can always add a lil TRIA-infused compost afterwards if it wasnt a worthwhile endeavour.

Almost feel like making some amendment-less base and adding only one amendment to each beer cup/pot and see what effect each solo amendment has, independently, on clones from the exact same plant

Kinda Wonder what the morphological and smell/taste differences would be..

testiclees · May 10, 2016

MistaRasta said:
What else would be the determining factor in rapid growth?
Being I have a healthy soil and all my trace minerals, nitrogen, sulfur and calcium are already there I would conclude that it indeed is the tria giving me more rapid growth leading to larger yields..

It sure isn't the amount of phosphorus..

I dont have any way of knowing that. It sure could be tria. But it also could be any combo of various factors.

Did you mention how you apply tria in your garden? I think it would matter if you used a quantifiable approach and observed the plant. But if youre using pellets, compost or straw etc it would be a crap shoot guessing what the effects, if any, that tria derived from those products is having on your garden.

MistaRasta · May 10, 2016

testiclees said:
I dont have any way of knowing that. It sure could be tria. But it also could be any combo of various factors.

What do you mean? There's many articles written and many years worth of research on this fatty alcohol stating its effects..:

testiclees said:
Did you mention how you apply tria in your garden? I think it would matter if you used a quantifiable approach and observed the plant. But if youre using pellets, compost or straw etc it would be a crap shoot guessing what the effects, if any, that tria derived from those products is having on your garden.

A quantifiable approach huh? This extraction seems impossible given the parameters of organics.

testiclees · May 10, 2016

MistaRasta said:
What do you mean? There's many articles written and many years worth of research on this fatty alcohol stating its effects..:

A quantifiable approach huh? This extraction seems impossible given the parameters of organics.

Ya i agree the effect is well studied but you cant draw a conclusion without controlling for the multiple factors that also impact growth.

bmgnoot · May 11, 2016

MistaRasta said:
I'd factor in the calcium value, adapt that to your base recipe and pick the cheaper of the two.

Are you getting the lobster meal locally? Shrimp meal is almost the same with more phosphorus, it's about 4% more

For my mix I compensated the calcium with extra fish bone meal & oyster shell and some other stuff I have. Could probably, and definitely will for future grows as I expand, source a bunch of cheap lobster compost in Maine. Coast of Maine organics probably has that on lockdown though.

Mad Farmer DeeJ · May 12, 2016

I've got some interesting information I've gathered on oyster shells ability to buffer ph from my most recent trial i was running for compost. I can't share too much but here is something.
If this makes sense…
Base= 100g. peat, 12g soy, 5g blood meal = ……………….. ph 4.61
100g. peat, 12g soy, 5g blood meal, 1.25g oyster powder=… ph 5.01
100g. peat, 12g soy, 5g blood meal, 2.5g oyster powder=….. ph 5.27
100g. peat, 12g soy, 5g blood meal, 5g oyster powder=……. ph 5.83

These numbers are from pre-composted material.
I also have the C:N ratios from a LICO for each recipe. if you want them pm me

Mad Farmer DeeJ · May 12, 2016

Pattahabi said:
Take your anger out of your answer. Here's is my cite. I await yours...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liming_(soil)
Liming is the application of calcium- and magnesium-rich materials to soil in various forms, including marl, chalk, limestone, or hydrated lime. This neutralises soil acidity and increases activity of soil bacteria. However, oversupply may result in harm to plant life. Lime is a basic chemical, the effect of it makes the soil more basic thus making acidic soils neutral.

Now again, I'm just posting what I believe to be true. If you have documentation of otherwise I am certainly willing to listen.

Much respect,
P-

so,
LIMING IS NOT "the application of calcium- and magnesium-rich materials" (like you stated) It is the application of ground limestone. There are different forms of limestone Calcitic limestone aka ag lime is primarily calcium carbonate so its just calcium rich.... Dolomitic lime is about 50% cal 40%mag 10% other. There is also gypsum (not a limestone but mentionable) one of my favorite garden tools!!! It contains mainly Calcium and a little sulfur, it also loosen heavy clay soils. Oyster Shell read other post above.

Forte · May 21, 2016

hyroot said:
I am getting more pungent flavors. But I mostly attribute that to using only basalt rock dust instead of other rock dusts and sst. Fish bone meal and crab meal could play a factor. I switched over to all basalt before swapping alfalfa for fish bone meal. I saw the difference in flavor right away with the basalt.

How much of the amendments do you add per cf?

Mad Farmer DeeJ · May 24, 2016

Cascade Minerals is the basalt brand i use. Its made right here in Oregon!!!

crab meal vs. oyster shell

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