Curious about how the Solis-Tek 10k bulb compares to CMH

So I currently run 2 hortilux HPS bulbs in cool tube reflectors in my flower room. I got the cool tube reflectors to have minimal drag to the air blowing through. My temp is great right now, and I dont need AC. I am however looking to widen my spectrum, and add some UV rays to increase resin production. I have been looking at using 2 400w CMH bulbs, which I already have ballasts for, but after doing some more research I have found that although CMH has an impressive wide spectrum, it doesnt appear to do much UV spectrum, below 400nm, where the human eye cant see and is harmful to the skin. there are actually laws against making street lamps and such without UV filtered glass. Solis-tek is the only bulb I have found that has a really impressive uv spectrum.
https://www.420magazine.com/forums/g...ighting-8.html
I have been reading about this bulb, and I have few questions:

1. Why is this bulb called the "finisher" it looks like it would be the perfect addition in a 2-1 configuration with HPS thru the whole flower cycle, since it has super UV and most of the blue spectrum, but teeters down towards the red/yellow, that is well covered by the HPS. Why would you not want UV light until the last week or three?

2. UV light penetration. Since I am using cooled hoods, I would ideally like to use one on this bulb too, as It will probably be a 1000w, but I am reading that any sort of glass even boroscilate, blocks UV rays. Even CMH bulbs seem to be made of glass that would block some of the UV. Solis-tek is the only bulb I know of that uses "Low-E" or Low Iron Glass, specifically to let UV pass through. Am I stuck using barebulb if I want UV? or does anyone make a cooled hood with this "low-E" low iron glass?
Then again, this guy says that regular Boroscilate glass doesnt contain any iron anyways.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/eye-hortilux-vs-sunpulse-high-times-says-hortilux-death.376849/page-4
If I do end up going barebulb, how hot does this bulb burn compared with CMH or other HID lights you might be using? CMH is supposed to be very efficient, not only because it has more usable light than other HID lights, but people say it burns much cooler than your average 400w HPS or MH. This bulb seems to blow the CMH out of the water for horticultural purposes, particularly those that could benefit from UV, which is exciting because I thought CMH was the next best thing that everyone would be using before long, but it looks to me like we have something better available. I have not heard anything about how hot it burns. I am hoping to run a 1000w DE but Might be convinced to run a 600 instead if the heat is gonna be too much. Should I plan on needing AC? I would rather know upfront if this is a monster to cool. I am hoping to get away with upgrading my intake and exhaust fans, and putting the cooltubes on a separate circuit. aka separate fan/ducting. I am hoping to hear from people currently using this bulb in their setup.

3. From My research this bulb is supposed to run on a Pulse start ballast, which to me means a MH magnetic ballast. Unless of course you buy a Solis-Tek electronic ballast. Is this just an advertising scheme, or do I need a magnetic MH ballast if I dont want to buy their E-ballast?

4. My last and final question:
They also they make a Double End version of this bulb, which is what I will probably end up using. I have an electronic ballast made for Double End Bulbs, but it is not made by Solis-Tek. I assume this will work just fine for the solis-Tek 10k DE bulb, but I wanted to make sure. since they seem so specific on what kind of ballast to use.

How many of you are using this bulb? how are your results? Does anyone use it for the full flowering cycle, or just in the last 1-3 weeks like they say?

Thanks for any light you guys can shed on this.

you have most of it figured out already. only go de if you can handle the temps. 10k is a finisher, it owuld be fun to see its efficacy as a supplement during flower, but your mainly going to see a diference during flush.

I would go barebulb 10k

will the DE create more heat or is it just that I can easier cool a SE bulb? If I really only need this bulb in the last week, what would be a good supplemental bulb in a 2-1 configuration with HPS. I have been looking at Sunmaster Full nova, and 2 400w CMH but niether of those would work with the DE configuration. I am not looking for another HPS. I am looking to widen the spectrum, and include as much UV as is neccesary. This is why this bulb caught my attention.

has anyone used one of these:
http://floridahydroponic.com//catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46_52_58&products_id=276&osCsid=7c7c20a20c6d8cdd26f8664106ad7353

de is much more heat. 1000 metal halide is quite hot too. i suggest sun pulse

Much more? so its not just that most DE setups on the market right now are not cooled? thats interesting, I thought DE was supposed to be 15% more efficient or something. If heat is going to be a problem, perhaps I should reconsider the 2 400w CMH. They are supposed to be more efficient and cooler than most. I have to wonder though if they put out much if any UVB in the 280-315 nm range. The graphs phillips profides dont go below 400. in fact I have never seen a graph that went below 400 besides the solis-tek one.

de have to run at a certain temp to be most efficient and achieve its performance. sun system has an air cooled hood for de that supposedly still allows bulb to run at peak potential.

look into sun pulse 10k

febisfebi said:

will the DE create more heat or is it just that I can easier cool a SE bulb? If I really only need this bulb in the last week, what would be a good supplemental bulb in a 2-1 configuration with HPS. I have been looking at Sunmaster Full nova, and 2 400w CMH but niether of those would work with the DE configuration. I am not looking for another HPS. I am looking to widen the spectrum, and include as much UV as is neccesary. This is why this bulb caught my attention.

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For yrs I did grows with nothing but a MH, and the quality was always top notch, always had the best results when I mixed spectrums.
I have had the 10k bulb for like 6 months, but sadly had my flower room down for like four months, I re-did my flower room, on Saturday, and I am running two 600w ballasts, one is a standard hps, and the other is the 10k 600mh.
I am running the same strains under both (for the most part) and we'll see if it does anything differently, I can tell you VISUALLY the mh is a bright ass bulb, seems WAY brighter than the hps, and no I didn't look directly at it, in fact I use my oxy-acetylene cutting torch glasses for it..
And long sleeves.. you'll feel it on your skin, feels like.... sunburn....
Anyways, sorry I don't have more info on it.
in about 30-40 days i'll be able to see if it does anything.

Velvet Elvis said:

de have to run at a certain temp to be most efficient and achieve its performance. sun system has an air cooled hood for de that supposedly still allows bulb to run at peak potential.

look into sun pulse 10k

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I have been looking at the sun system cooled DE reflector. Are you saying I should use that cooled hood with a 10k bulb? What about the UV, will it be getting blocked? i have been looking at sun pulse, I have a few questions, they dont supply much information. They claim their 10k puts out UVA, B and some C, but I havent been able to find any spectrometer graphs. Also they dont appear to have a DE bulb? is that correct? As much as I would like DE I could run a SE with much cheaper startup costs, as I already have a cooled hood.
What do you think about using the 10k the whole flower cycle? should I be using a lower kelvin bulb until the end? And which ones should/shouldnt be used in a cooled hood?
Thanks so much Velvet Elvis I appreciate all the help

Greasemonkeymann:
Thats exactly what I'm trying to do is mix spectrums. I want some UV at the same time if I can manage. Do you run your 10k barebulb, or under glass? How hot does the 10k 600w run? you say you feel the sunburn? Are you planning on using that bulb the whole way through flower, or just part?


Also Hortilux has a new "powerveg" t5 bulb that has high uv output. I wounder if thse would help supplement, and also makes me think a 10k bulb might be good for vegging? I have never heard of this before, but that is odd that they would benefit highly form UV during veg, and then not again until the last couple weeks of flower? how does that make sense. wouldnt you want UV all the way through?

you can always add UVB with 10.0 reptile bulbs. don't feel you're stuck with the 10k bulb to get your UV fix. i run mine right after the stretch til the end. just be careful with your eyes and skin as somebody else mentioned

I would just run it towards the end. bare bulb. if it gets too hot in room, go the air cooled de route.

mixed spectrum throughout flower will give marginal increase in terpene/trich production, nice shorter plants, but more than marginal drop off in yield

Velvet Elvis said:

I would just run it towards the end. bare bulb. if it gets too hot in room, go the air cooled de route.

mixed spectrum throughout flower will give marginal increase in terpene/trich production, nice shorter plants, but more than marginal drop off in yield

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So your saying having a mixed spectrum throughout, will cause a smaller yeild? Isnt that for people running only mixed spectrum bulbs? I am doing this as a supplemental light to the 2kw HPS I currently have running. So maybe I should just run a 600w10k UV bulb, for the last 3 weeks, so bare bulb could be more managable. Then I could throw a different SE or DE full spectrum bulb in a cooled reflector to use as supplemental light throughout. The "sunmaster full nova" looks interesting, but there are a lot of choices for full spectrum bulbs now, including CMH, or CDM. The Ceramic Metal Halides, which are supposed to be much cooler. If I do go the CMH I am still trying to figure out if they put out enough UVB (280-315nm Most graphs dont go this low) to warrant running barebulb, because that might be a good option as they may be easier to manage the barebulb heat.
What do you suggest for supplemental lighting throughout the grow cycle, and might do well in a cooled hood? like how some larger scale grows have/had a small plasma light in with 6 kw HPS bulbs to spread the spectrum and make the light more like sunlight, so the plants dont have to adapt to having just yellow/red, or just blue, etc. which does cause stress to the plant. Any time it has to adapt to conditions that are not normal in nature this happens. The more we can emulate the sun the better. It seems to me like we have much better cheaper options than plasma lighting now though. Especially the power usage is unreal on those.
Thanks again!

rkymtnman said:

you can always add UVB with 10.0 reptile bulbs. don't feel you're stuck with the 10k bulb to get your UV fix. i run mine right after the stretch til the end. just be careful with your eyes and skin as somebody else mentioned

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I am considering the reptile UVB lights in order tto keep everything else cooled. What do you think about the "high output t5 UVB lights" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reptile-Lighting-ReptiSun-10-0-UVB-T5-HO-High-Output-Linear-Lamp-Bulb-24w-22-/262114819966?hash=item3d0742bf7e:g:o5sAAOSwwbdWL8rx
This is not the hortilux "powerveg" t5
They also make CFL bulbs and some LED's but they seem to all be UVA. do you know if they make good UVB Led bulbs, and do you have any experience/knowlege about the CFL's and/or t5's?
thanks

i've got 10.0 18" t12 and 15.0 cfl bulbs. just running 2 of the cfls now in a 3x4 room. both work well. and hardly any extra heat. the effective range is about 20" so you have to place them within that range.

my main lights are a 400 hps and a 400cmh in an open reflector. so getting some uvb from the cmh bulb too.

rkymtnman said:

i've got 10.0 18" t12 and 15.0 cfl bulbs. just running 2 of the cfls now in a 3x4 room. both work well. and hardly any extra heat. the effective range is about 20" so you have to place them within that range.

my main lights are a 400 hps and a 400cmh in an open reflector. so getting some uvb from the cmh bulb too.

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are you using a phillips CMH bulb? how is the heat with the open reflector? are you using a vertical or horizontal model? Does your bulb use the new 2 prong connector or is it the older mogul base? I am very curious how the CMH works, I have heard nothing but good things about them. Do you know what sort and how much of the UV is put out by the CMH? If you look at the graphs, as long it is steady down to 400nm, but who knows what happens after that, it could take a nose dive, or there could be uv protected glass.

Also where do you get those 15.0 CFL bulbs. I cant find anything over 10.0. How many watts are they? do they work as well/better than the t12 fixtures? which ones seem brighter? I could much easier set up a bunch of cfl's than t5 or t12 fixtures.
Thanks for all your help

febisfebi said:

are you using a phillips CMH bulb? how is the heat with the open reflector? are you using a vertical or horizontal model? Does your bulb use the new 2 prong connector or is it the older mogul base? I am very curious how the CMH works, I have heard nothing but good things about them. Do you know what sort and how much of the UV is put out by the CMH? If you look at the graphs, as long it is steady down to 400nm, but who knows what happens after that, it could take a nose dive, or there could be uv protected glass.

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yep, the old philips cmh400. i've got 3 total: 2 verts and 1 horiz. using the horiz and just a plain jane 400hps in an open reflector.

i used the 400cmh a few years ago and went to a 600hps. my 600 crapped out at beginning of flower so i decided to go back to the cmh. had the hps laying around so added it too. plants seem to love the combo.

here's the chart for the cmh. you kinda have to take a guess at what's below 400nm but it should be pretty decent. i'm almost positive it's not uv protected glass.

Yeah unfortunately they dont go below 400nm because thats below the point where the human eye can see. well were not trying to grow humans, were trying to grow plants, that beenefit from both UV and IR. I saw that chart for the Phillips CMH for first time about 6 months ago, and decided I just HAD to have one. Looks like what a plasma light spectrometer reading might put out. I have since been reading about them, and learned more about the importance of mixing red/blues when flowering. So it sounds like you got the right idea mixing CMH with HPS. would already be running thsee if I hadnt come across the solis-tek and sun pulse bulbs, which caught my eye because of the extra UV. I am interested in the increased efficiency of the CMH, and the decreased heat, and whether they should be run barebulb. I'm not sure I can get ahold of any horzontal CMH bulbs so the verticals are probably gonna not be cooled unless I get an expensive vertical cooled hood. Are you running all those bulbs without enclosed cooling? is it true that the 400w CMH runs much cooler than 400w hps? I have run a 400w hps bare bulb, and it creates more heat than I would like. But it would be a good reference to compare the 400w CMH to. Have you tried taking the temp of just a CMH bulb, and just an HPS of the same wattage? It would be interesting to see the results. Maybe CMH and reptile CFL's would be the way to go.

rkymtnman:
Can you point me in the right direction to find the proper 15.0 UVB CFL bulbs, I can only find 10.0, and I'm not sure what wattage would be best. I assume the higher the better, so I can have less hanging fixtures in the way of the main light
Thank you all so much for helping me through this mass of information/disinformaion that is plant lighting.
I appreciate it.

Weird shit happens with 10k in veg. 10k lights are for corals In saltwater aquariums.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

this is what i ordered. i just realized it was supposed to be a 10.0 but looks like the 15.0 replaces that bulb now?
http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B00101GDIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448642239&sr=8-1&keywords=reptile+uvb+bulb

and yes, the cmh is much cooler than the hps in 400w. i've always run the cmh bare bulb to take advantage of it's uvb output. the glass in an enclosed reflector would block the uv.

rkymtnman,
Ok cool thats the reptile bulb I was looking at. seems like a bargain for $12. they put out a fair amount of UV dont they? when you say this bulb is replaced by a 15.0, are you referring to the "UVB 150" marking on the label. The description still says its a 10.0 from what I can understand. But with those you KNOW its UVB cause the reptiles would die without it. Our sptrectrometer graphs on our bulbs, even from solis-tek, only go down to 350nm which is UVA at best. So how do we really know that any of these bulbs are putting out any actual 280-315nm UVB light. They certainly arent advertising it in their graphs. They like to talk about it a lot, but mostly about UV in general, and not UVB. I wonder what kind of device you would use to read that low. I think most spectrometers are limited to 400-800nm or so, the part that humans can see.

As far s the CMH goes, That is really good to hear. Do they run cool enough to that you can run them bare wthout extra ventilation? do you have ventilation in your tent? I was thinking of having intermittent ventilation, in order to take advantage of CO2 at some point, or do you think that would get to hot? And how long would it take to heat up?
I'm glad to hear the mix is going so well. thats what i'm going for, and its encouraging to see other people doing it. I have a 430w mag hps ballast, do you think the extra 30w would be an issue with these bulbs? I highly doubt it, but I just wanted to make sure.

Also I just found this warning from phillips: I wonder if that means the uv is being blocked. I know there was some sort of law against making lamps for people use that didnt use uv protected glass. Horticultural lamps obviously dont apply, but im not sure phillips designed this bulb as a Hort. bulb even though it probably works better than most lamps that are. I am still planning on having my main source of UVB come from CFL bulbs, but I wouldnt want to miss out on the uv from the CMH. I wonder about the heat so much because some day I want CO2 and if I get vertical CMH lamps they will be a lot more expensive to cool if I end up needing cooled hoods. I coudl try and hunt down some horizontal models but only if they really gonna need cooling, since that part would be easier.

This is from Phillips, regarding their CMH bulbs
R “WARNING:
These lamps can cause serious skin burn and eye
inflammation from short wave ultraviolet radiation if outer envelope
ot the lamp is broken or puntured. Do not use where people will
remain for more than a few minutes unless adequate shielding or
other safety precuations are used. Certain lamps that will
automaticallly extinguish when the outer envelope is broken or
punctured are commercially available.” This lamp complies with FDA
radiation performance standard 21 CFR subchapter J. (USA:21 CFR
1040.30 Canada: SOR/DORS/80-381)

Thanks