Cutting Fan Leaves? A Mythbuster style experiment...

findme

Well-Known Member
Findme...... Let's take a look at that 12 by 12 fan leaf that produces more energy, as you say. Which one is taking up more of the plant's resources? the 5" leaf or the 12" one? How can you say that the energy and water used to support the 12 inch leaf is less in proportion to the 5" leaf and it's contribution to the plant?

I remove all large fan leaves at the bottom of the plant when my canopy is established. They aren't getting light and the water, nutrients, and energy used by the plant to keep those leaves alive is wasted.


As stated before, if the 12 by 12 fan leaf wasn't being useful, the plant would drop it. Surely, you have seen a plant that has dropped leaves that weren't being useful correct? If not, you can take my word for it because I have seen it plenty of times. Not just on weed but all types of plants.


for example, its like using your muscles... if you don't use them, they deteriorate. Our body even follows the same process as the plants do! Looking at this logically, it would make sense for the muscles to deteriorate because they aren't getting used. Same thing goes with plants. if the leaf isn't being used, they deteriorate and die off.


now.. as to your questions.. Which one is taking up more resources? you are looking at it the wrong way, its not which one is taking up most resources, its
which one is producing more resources. Surely, you see the difference correct? We don't go around saying the bigger apple tree is taking up more resources do we? We don't go around saying " omg, those lower apple tree leaves must be cut, they aren't useful and aren't getting any sunlight.." do we?

but... if you don't like the fact that your plant is taking up more nutrients by having the "huge" leaf then that's a personal problem. Don't be mad at the plant for using the nutrients YOU gave it. you give it nutrients and you reward it by chopping off the huge fan leaf. Why not just make the solution simpler and give the plant less nutrients... oh wait.. I believe you get the idea now.
:) next question...

How can you say that the energy and water used to support the 12 inch leaf is less in proportion to the 5" leaf and it's contribution to the plant?

I don't. What I do say is that the 12 inch leaf produces more nutrients because its a huge ass leaf. Surely, we can agree that if a plant grows a 12 inch leaf and somehow the leaf stays green throughout the life cycle, it HAS produced more energy than it has used. otherwise, the leaf would have deteriorated and died off, correct?

You say you remove all large fan leaves because they aren't getting light and the nutes and energy is being wasted. How do you come to this conclusion? What makes you believe those leaves aren't producing enough energy to sustain itself and not only itself but the plant as a whole?
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
So wow, according to you, we shouldn't prune plants or trees as we do today? Why do you think pruning is done? To encourage new growth. The leaf neophytes such as yourself usually come up with some hillarious analogies, such as your human body vs weed examples..... LOL I know people that aren't getting any but their unit hasn't fallen off yet. Topping is a form of pruning, it is beneficial to the plant, just as is removing suckers and lower leaves that get no light. Removing those leaves removes a place for pests to hide. It also allows for air to circulate below the canopy. Some plants have way too many leaves. Pruning some out and clearing up the plant allows the remaining leaves to respirate better.

What it boild down to findme is this, you go ahead and grow that bush you call "Au natural" and I'll raise my plants as I see fit. I was a landscaper and worked for a horticulturist for 15 years. You "do not prune" people always give me laughs... There are far more reasons to prune than not to.... You are free to grow as you see fit. I used to think like you, then I quit letting others think for me and I thought for myself...
 

The Knuck

Active Member
i clean up the bottom of my plants when they go to flower also.

thats nothing to do with the op though. its not the same thing.
 

findme

Well-Known Member
So wow, according to you, we shouldn't prune plants or trees as we do today? Why do you think pruning is done? To encourage new growth. The leaf neophytes such as yourself usually come up with some hillarious analogies, such as your human body vs weed examples..... LOL I know people that aren't getting any but their unit hasn't fallen off yet. Topping is a form of pruning, it is beneficial to the plant, just as is removing suckers and lower leaves that get no light. Removing those leaves removes a place for pests to hide. It also allows for air to circulate below the canopy. Some plants have way too many leaves. Pruning some out and clearing up the plant allows the remaining leaves to respirate better.

What it boild down to findme is this, you go ahead and grow that bush you call "Au natural" and I'll raise my plants as I see fit. I was a landscaper and worked for a horticulturist for 15 years. You "do not prune" people always give me laughs... There are far more reasons to prune than not to.... You are free to grow as you see fit. I used to think like you, then I quit letting others think for me and I thought for myself...
[off topic]
of course, that makes perfect sense! Cut off old growth to force the plant to make new growth.. As IF the plant wasn't going to make new growth without pruning.. Now THAT is hilarious. The only reason I see to prune is for aesthetics.. and I'm cool with that.

I'm glad you think for yourself now. I have been doing that my whole life. I'm a little different when it comes to "au natural" though. I haven't topped yet but I am planning on doing that for my next grow. merely for a quick clone ( something I thought about myself).

you know, instead of doing a cutting fan leaves study, What do you think about a side by side test of 2 clones, everything being equal for the exception that one plant is pruned ( topped,cutting off suckers,trimming lower growth ,etc) while another is not. My guess would be that the yield of the non pruned plant would be greater but not by much. what do you think? how much of an increase do you think pruning would give in relation to a non pruned plant?
[/off topic]
 

Auzzie07

Well-Known Member
auzzie which one went hermie trimmed or untrimmed ???
Trimmed went hermie, but like I said, extremely unstable genetics. I don't think trimming the fan leaves caused the stress to make it herm, i think it was the genetics for that plant.


Yes that's a fact. But that fact doesn't mean that removing fan leafs one might still get a equal or greater yield because of other factors under the right circumstances.

People keep talking about side by side, I only did it once, removed most the fans from one clone and none of the other and got the same yield from both. Everybody told me before I did it that I would lose yield, a fact! but I didn't. Keep an open mind that all our facts might be true but we might not know how they fit together.
Precisely. I think the whole "solar panel" theory has been debunked.
 

The Knuck

Active Member
LMAO, it hermied because you cut to much
Wow get real ppl, your doing tests that have been done a million times.
 

Auzzie07

Well-Known Member
LMAO, it hermied because you cut to much
Wow get real ppl, your doing tests that have been done a million times.
I can assure you it didn't. I know more about my grow than you do.

Also, if it's been done a million times, please let's see some links to said threads.
 

Japanfreak

New Member
ok one more.... ( last one i promise) If a huge fan leave is 12 inches by 12 inches and the bud under the leaf only had 5 inches by 5 inches of total leave material, which would is producing more energy. I would say the 12 by 12 huge fan leaf.
I think where people need to keep their minds open is how and where the energy is used. What portion of the energy from that fan leaf is used to built branches and other fan leafs and how much is used for the bud below it and if it was removed how much more energy could be used by the bud when produced by the leafs in it that are now exposed.

I'Ve seen it work first hand and since what people say about science isn't wrong than there must be something other than the "leaf is power plant" explanation.
 


cutting fan leaves does stress the whole plant.it also slows down growth.when you trim fan leaves in veg the plant compensates by growing more leaves or it makes the leaves it already has bigger.i know this because i i trimmed 2 plants and left 2 alone(same strain)and the trimmed ones at first got serious crows feet due to stress and it took about 20 hours for the leaves to go back to normal,then vertical growth slowed down,then the plants started to focus on making the leaves i left bigger.basically it put all its energy in leaf growth to make up for the ones i removed.so the 2 plants fell behind the other 2 and took longer to flower.

This is what happened to my plant...though it hasn't really slowed down too much, now its about 5ft 6.
IMG_0932.jpgIMG_0915.jpgIMG_0931.jpg
 

The Knuck

Active Member
I can assure you it didn't. I know more about my grow than you do.

Also, if it's been done a million times, please let's see some links to said threads.
maybe you do know more than me but maybe not,

you said you over trimmed a plant in flower and there is no chance that caused it to hermie, from the little i know about your grow

it seems likely to me that could have caused the hermie.

That's stupid. You are obviously not an experienced grower.

how does it make me inexperienced, see above, my logic makes sense, did i miss somthing? let me know if i did.
 

Auzzie07

Well-Known Member
The trimming of my fan leaves was over 5 weeks of flower, not all at once. It was a process. I have one girl left with those genetics and I couldn't be more dissatisfied with the strain (bagseed - hybrid). I've been waiting for the other girl to herm out on me, as I can feel it coming.

Either way, I don't mean to be a douche, honest. Just saying, I've seen this work out on many occasions. And here's some knowledge:

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/389377-defoliation.html
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/352300-defoliation-removing-fan-leaves-higher.html
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/310396-cutting-fan-leaves-18.html#post4441952
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163

Lots of people have success with defoliation...
 

Auzzie07

Well-Known Member
K33ftr33z from ICMag.com says this, and I feel like this is his best hypothesis for defoliation as a means of increasing yeild:

"What has been learned through experience by others as well as I is that it is light exposure to the buds that drives dense, tough nug development. A plant left alone will shade out all but the top buds. There is nothing unusual, or unorthodox, about training plants to overcome their unwieldy, natural character. Fruit trees, grape vines, tomatoes all are trained in one fashion or another to maximize yield."

This is the crux for his argument.

Later on in the thread, someone says this:

"Though your collective experiences show higher yields; they do not definitively prove it is from light to the buds, rather than hormones related to removing leaves."

This is also a plausible reasoning for increased bud size; possibly do to increased auxins because of heavy trimming. Another possibility....
 

IXOYE

Active Member
I had no plans on trimming my leaves back a bit but it just "feels right." The plant is LST and so there's lots of points for colas...and even more leaves shading them.
 

80mg

New Member
Another thread killed by bitchitup.org...wtf is with you guys latley? You all been on super bitch mode recently.
 

Japanfreak

New Member


cutting fan leaves does stress the whole plant.it also slows down growth.when you trim fan leaves in veg the plant compensates by growing more leaves or it makes the leaves it already has bigger.i know this because i i trimmed 2 plants and left 2 alone(same strain)and the trimmed ones at first got serious crows feet due to stress and it took about 20 hours for the leaves to go back to normal,then vertical growth slowed down,then the plants started to focus on making the leaves i left bigger.basically it put all its energy in leaf growth to make up for the ones i removed.so the 2 plants fell behind the other 2 and took longer to flower.

This is what happened to my plant...though it hasn't really slowed down too much, now its about 5ft 6.
View attachment 1381758View attachment 1381762View attachment 1381768
lol, again people talking about facts when they have little experience.
 

The Knuck

Active Member
Logic has nothing to do with it. That's like saying it's warm because the sky is blue. You missed a lot.
logic has nothing to do with it ?? ok.

your obviously inexperienced.

you know nothing about my experience. so i have no interest in your opinion on it.
 

80mg

New Member
^ their pussies hurt
for real...

lol, again people talking about facts when they have little experience.
Logic has nothing to do with it. That's like saying it's warm because the sky is blue. You missed a lot.
logic has nothing to do with it ?? ok.

your obviously inexperienced.

you know nothing about my experience. so i have no interest in your opinion on it.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THIS THREAD IS DEAD BASICALLY BECAUSE OF YOU TWO!!!!! AND YOUR STILL GOING AT IT?!

WHAT THE FUCK?! DO YOU GUYS WANT A COOKIE OR SOMETHING? OKAY HERE IT IS!

THE INTERNET ARGUMENT AWARD COOKIE IS PRESENTED TOO BOTH OF YOU FOR JUST NOT GIVING UP!

mABE NOW YOU CAN SHU THE FUCK UP! LIKE THE OP IM OUT i JUST HAD TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST.

DUCES!
 
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