CXB3590 1500W

SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Jp.the.pope said:
@SupraSPLI've been lurking in your high efficiency threads and grow journals for a while now and think I'm finally ready to make the jump to COB, in large part thanks to you.
The grow room is a dedicated room. 6' x 7' x 7'. Planning on having a 5x5 canopy with walkways on for sides. I've ordered the CXB3590 (25) and the holders.
CXB3590 - CD - 36V - 3500k
HLG - 185H - C1050(A)
Ideal 50-2303CR
Planning on running 5 cxbs per heat sink. With one driver. Seems to be the correct ratio on cobs per the driver COB efficiency chart.
Planning on running 1 COB per square foot. 25 cobs. Is this too much light? I'm afraid I may be above the 850-950 PPFD I was shooting for.
I'm having trouble determining the PPFD. I keep coming up with an answer off by a factor of ten, but nonetheless wrong.

I'm wondering if the above driver would be a good choice and how large would the heatsink need to be for passive cooling. I'm thinking of 60" length so I can run 5 COBs per driver. I was looking at the 5.886" at heatsinkusa. I just want to make sure I'm not way overshooting it.
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Hey man sounds like an awesome build! Here is what I get:
35.5W * 25 = 887.5W dissipation
887.5 * .612% efficiency = 543 PAR W
543 * .9 lens/reflector/wall losses = 489 PAR W
489/25 sq ft = 19.5 PAR W/ sq ft
19.5 * 4.65 umol/s/PAR W * 10.7 = 973 PPFD averaged, when adjusted to 1050mA (driver is capable of up to 1150mA)

973 is assuming a 2D canopy and since your colas are 3D they will be getting less than 973 on average so that should give you great results but if the intensity is too much to keep up with you could dim it, remove on pabel, or spread the lights further apart and add more canopy at the end of the walkways.

Each group of 5 COBs will put 70 W of heat into the heatsink so for passive you could use something like 4.9"X50" (good for 100W of heat) or you could use the 3.5" if you add a 80mm fan at 5-9V. The 5.88"X50" would cost the same and have more surface area (good for 108W) but it has a thinner base and thinner fins so I am not sure which would perform better in practice.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Thank you very much Sir that is what i wanted to here not How Realstyles comes in with the attitude I build COB HPS Destroyers, to me that sounds extremely childish,
Everyone's growing goals are different and with that said ,
His post made it sound like his lights are far superior then anyone else's ,, And it bothered me, the way he came across..And i apologize to anyone that feels that i came across as the Bad guy,It was not intended If anyone reads my first post i was not agreeing or disagreeing on anything i just wanted opinions not statements .. on comparisons with possible previous CMH users that may have switched to cobs or run both ....

Anyways My light system is rather new on 5th grow with Nano's With NCCS system and i really love it Who knows when and or if they start fail then i probably will jump into full COB lighting or the next greatest lighting source
I personally think its not going to stop at COB being the best grow light in the years to come RIGHT ???
But i really like your idea SPL on possibly making one ,, and lets face it if Realstyles can make one surely anyone can specially when i just figured out this previous Mars LED grower turned into or thinking he is the Free mason of the DiY Cob industry and we must bow down to this clown its sickens my stomach ..

So SPL could you PM me or post where i can purchase or phone numbers to whom ever a complete parts list for two 300 watt dimable Cob units Full spectrum
My Buddy owns a tin shop so he can make me a nice profesional BOX
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Hey man no worries, this is Realstyles behaving himself. When you give him a chance you see his true colors, he is half joking/busting balls/getting a rise out of people kind of thing. I dare say it is impossible to give someone a complete parts list because there are SO many options when it comes to heatsink configurations/ COB spacing, target PPFD etc. You can make it whatever shape fits your space, you can choose your level of efficiency and you can choose passive or active cooled. How much canopy are you covering with each 315 and what shape is your space?

An example 300W build that would rock a 3X3, mid level efficiency (49%) to keep cost down
(1) Mean Well HLG-320H-36A (95% efficient, dimmable, power factor corrected driver)
(4) Cree CXB3590 36 V class (2700K, 3000K, 3500K 4000K mixed any way you feel like) or (4) Vero29s
(4) Rosewill RCX-Z1 CPU coolers or (2) 3.5" X 30" heatsinks with 80mm fans
power draw would be about 340W
LED dissipation would be about 320W @ 49% efficiency = 157 PAR W emitted
157 * .9 lens/reflector/wall losses = 141 PAR W reaches canopy
141 PAR W / 9 = 15.7 PAR W/ft² or 780 PPFD
non productive heat = 176W

315W CMH in a 3X3:
power draw around 335W
bulb dissipation 315W @ 38% efficiency = 120 PAR W emitted
120 * .8 reflector losses * .9 wall losses = 86 PAR W reaches canopy
86 PAR W / 9 sq ft = 9.6 PAR W/ft² or 461 PPFD
non productive heat = 229W
 
N

Ndogg09

Active Member
Still reading through this thread but i figured id reply now just to tell you how invaluable the information you share is, its truly awesome how much time you take to help everyone with this led stuff.

I run a 600w hps non aircooled in a 4x4 tent at the moment and plan to add some cxb3590s soon. Probably 4 total, 1 in each corner for supplemental lighting and will most likely phase out the 600w for all cobs.

I'm sure ill have some ?s for ya in the near future keep it up man your killing it!!
 
Jp.the.pope

Jp.the.pope

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Hey man sounds like an awesome build! Here is what I get:
35.5W * 25 = 887.5W dissipation
887.5 * .612% efficiency = 543 PAR W
543 * .9 lens/reflector/wall losses = 489 PAR W
489/25 sq ft = 19.5 PAR W/ sq ft
19.5 * 4.65 umol/s/PAR W * 10.7 = 973 PPFD averaged, when adjusted to 1050mA (driver is capable of up to 1150mA)

973 is assuming a 2D canopy and since your colas are 3D they will be getting less than 973 on average so that should give you great results but if the intensity is too much to keep up with you could dim it, remove on pabel, or spread the lights further apart and add more canopy at the end of the walkways.

Each group of 5 COBs will put 70 W of heat into the heatsink so for passive you could use something like 4.9"X50" (good for 100W of heat) or you could use the 3.5" if you add a 80mm fan at 5-9V. The 5.88"X50" would cost the same and have more surface area (good for 108W) but it has a thinner base and thinner fins so I am not sure which would perform better in practice.
Click to expand...
You rock @SupraSPL .... Thank you so much. Will post photos as I build. Think I might drop down to the 4.9" hs. Should be epic.
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
first of all if i wanted your opinion i would of posted it in your thread which i didn't i was more or less asking SPL, and others following this thread ..
Whats there to let go ??? i am pulling just under 12 pounds with my Nano's now consistently and happy , thats money in my bank ,, i do not need to here your mumbling that cobs are HPS destroyers haha seriously i was asking about spectrums and if cobs are pulling the same as CMH as i repeat my self
I AM LOOKING FOR SUPPLEMENTAL LIGHTING and Full spectrum?? if it was not so expensive i would put 3 plasma in between them GET IT ??? So now contemplating LEC Full spectrum or possible COB
So your answer is meaningless i build a HPS destroyer ??? WTF ??? GO sit the fuck down or go sit in your tent, cause your not in the same league
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If you can't show pics it didn't happen lol you should stay in the toke and talk threads and yes my lights are better than HPS and yes I have an ego. I'm very proud of my work and I'm gonna pull 2lb off 756 watts in a 4x4 tent 6 plants that was only vegged for 3 weeks and my 4x8 tent 1820watts will harvest 4+ a month after. I'm also strain hunting right now to breed lol. Some of you guys don't know what I'm really about. You think I'm a dick lol but I'm far from that. Just because I'm blunt and straight forward doesn't make me a dick, it makes me honest. Read my name REALSTYLES that means something. I don't have too lie

SAM_1282.JPG SAM_1286.JPG SAM_1287.JPG SAM_1288.JPGSAM_1284.JPG
 
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Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I would like to caution people with high current drivers. People are generally scared of the voltage...because that is what gets the electricity through insulation(skin). And is a valid concern. But once it's through the insulation, it is the current that does the damage to the body. And even a small current 50ma "could" kill someone. That is why in general 100w is roughly the point between staying UL class2(residential safe) and class1(industrial/commercial). For all intents and purposes, no matter how you distribute the power(A*V=power), generally humans will be safe in most conditions.

Even everyone's favorite hlg185's aren't going to be class2.

I know it's easy and convenient to get one big ass driver...just know and understand what it's capable of other than just lighting up cobs. Don't be scared...just show respect for electricity.

Even a little zap hurts like a mother with DC. But more importantly, stay alive people.
 
Growmau5

Growmau5

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
I would like to caution people with high current drivers. People are generally scared of the voltage...because that is what gets the electricity through insulation(skin). And is a valid concern. But once it's through the insulation, it is the current that does the damage to the body. And even a small current 50ma "could" kill someone. That is why in general 100w is roughly the point between staying UL class2(residential safe) and class1(industrial/commercial). For all intents and purposes, no matter how you distribute the power(A*V=power), generally humans will be safe in most conditions.

Even everyone's favorite hlg185's aren't going to be class2.

I know it's easy and convenient to get one big ass driver...just know and understand what it's capable of other than just lighting up cobs. Don't be scared...just show respect for electricity.

Even a little zap hurts like a mother with DC. But more importantly, stay alive people.
Click to expand...
this is what they showed us back in school to understand how voltage, current, and resistance interact.
PipeAnalogy.jpg
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
It appears Real styles might of got a jolt with his nonsense But anyways Real styles i suggest you do some homework cause as you say your lights are better then HPS lol yet when looking at your plants they do not look so great ,, i mean being honest here haha comparing your plants to other growers using Cobs Ah em there;s do in fact look way better,, Truthfully speaking 100 times better ,, but anyways no need to interact with you
As i write this i am in talks with the people that will work and help me with possible other well known Cob Designers and Diy builders behind closes doors on RIU haha .
and trust me your right a pic is worth a 1000 words,,,, but this pic is shit i might have to go dig up the bills was lke i think 8500 for in roof heating and just under 45,000 installed the best of the best Solar 25,000 watt continuous , of grid power system AC DC BABY .

But anyways i am sure Greengenes and some others will be invited in this back door meeting as we decide on some critical factors, and such .
And Figure out what is best .... but i bet my COBS will be better then yours
Nothing can beat FREE POWER i just wonder being free i guess no need to worry really about efficiency
But i promise you stay tuned

PS : i forgot to mention my power storage room has its own AC unit fucking believable and the room is like a master bedroom in a house lots of big ass battter packs
 
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REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
It appears Real styles might of got a jolt with his nonsense But anyways Real styles i suggest you do some homework cause as you say your lights are better then HPS lol yet when looking at your plants they do not look so great ,, i mean being honest here haha comparing your plants to other growers using Cobs Ah em there;s do in fact look way better,, Truthfully speaking 100 times better ,, but anyways no need to interact with you
As i write this i am in talks with the people that will work and help me with possible other well known Cob Designers and Diy builders behind closes doors on RIU haha .
and trust me your right a pic is worth a 1000 words,,,, but this pic is shit i might have to go dig up the bills was lke i think 8500 for in roof heating and just under 45,000 installed the best of the best Solar 25,000 watt continuous , of grid power system AC DC BABY .

But anyways i am sure Greengenes and some others will be invited in this back door meeting as we decide on some critical factors, and such .
And Figure out what is best .... but i bet my COBS will be better then yours
Nothing can beat FREE POWER i just wonder being free i guess no need to worry really about efficiency
But i promise you stay tuned

PS : i forgot to mention my power storage room has its own AC unit fucking believable and the room is like a master bedroom in a house lots of big ass battter packs
Click to expand...
First off my name is REALSTYLES there is no space in my name and you lied about the 12lbs you grew no pics it didn't happen lol. You are fucking lying right now lol
 
C

CreeCobLED

Member
Supra you are the man :)

Now i dont have a clue how to spec up the COBs and the drivers etc but im more than capable of wiring them up.

I have 2 x 1000DE gavitas that i am trying to match so if someone in the know could tell me how many i would need and exactly what i would need ie drivers etc etc that would be great.

Im looking at the 3590 3500k and i run a 2.4m x 1.2m space at the moment.

Many thanks
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Thank you very much Sir that is what i wanted to here not How Realstyles comes in with the attitude I build COB HPS Destroyers, to me that sounds extremely childish,
Everyone's growing goals are different and with that said ,
His post made it sound like his lights are far superior then anyone else's ,, And it bothered me, the way he came across..And i apologize to anyone that feels that i came across as the Bad guy,It was not intended If anyone reads my first post i was not agreeing or disagreeing on anything i just wanted opinions not statements .. on comparisons with possible previous CMH users that may have switched to cobs or run both ....

Anyways My light system is rather new on 5th grow with Nano's With NCCS system and i really love it Who knows when and or if they start fail then i probably will jump into full COB lighting or the next greatest lighting source
I personally think its not going to stop at COB being the best grow light in the years to come RIGHT ???
But i really like your idea SPL on possibly making one ,, and lets face it if Realstyles can make one surely anyone can specially when i just figured out this previous Mars LED grower turned into or thinking he is the Free mason of the DiY Cob industry and we must bow down to this clown its sickens my stomach ..

So SPL could you PM me or post where i can purchase or phone numbers to whom ever a complete parts list for two 300 watt dimable Cob units Full spectrum
My Buddy owns a tin shop so he can make me a nice profesional BOX
Click to expand...
LOL, he was offended by someone else's perceived arrogance!

Turnabout is fair play!
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
@CreeCobLED Thanks man, I would estimate 950 PPFD averaged for 2000W Gavita in your space, when the bulbs and reflectors are brand new. To match that with COBs in the same size space:

(5) HLG-185H-C1400A
(20) CXB3590 3500K CD

With drivers at max that would give you 875 PPFD averaged and should outyield the Gavita setup. LED dissipation would be about 1075W and power draw would be about 1150W with active cooled heatsinks.

For heatsinks you could use (5) 3.5"X40" bars with an 80mm fan in the center of each bar. You could put drivers on board the heatsinks or keep them all on a separate board. If you plan on dimming them often you could use HLG-185H-C1400B drivers with external POT dimmer. The A version has internal pot dimmer. Good luck with your build!
 
C

CreeCobLED

Member
SupraSPL said:
@CreeCobLED Thanks man, I would estimate 950 PPFD averaged for 2000W Gavita in your space, when the bulbs and reflectors are brand new. To match that with COBs in the same size space:

(5) HLG-185H-C1400A
(20) CXB3590 3500K CD

With drivers at max that would give you 875 PPFD averaged and should outyield the Gavita setup. LED dissipation would be about 1075W and power draw would be about 1150W with active cooled heatsinks.

For heatsinks you could use (5) 3.5"X40" bars with an 80mm fan in the center of each bar. You could put drivers on board the heatsinks or keep them all on a separate board. If you plan on dimming them often you could use HLG-185H-C1400B drivers with external POT dimmer. The A version has internal pot dimmer. Good luck with your build!
Click to expand...
Cheers man, you are awesome.

What sort of efficiency would i be running ? i dont mind spending a little more to get a better efficiency and yeah id defo be wanting them dimmable.

I have seen realstyles builds and like the look of them as they are one big heatsink, are they better and what would i need if i went that route ?

I thought id need more than 20 cobs too to match the gavitas.

Cheers fella
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
CreeCobLED said:
Cheers man, you are awesome.

What sort of efficiency would i be running ? i dont mind spending a little more to get a better efficiency and yeah id defo be wanting them dimmable.

I have seen realstyles builds and like the look of them as they are one big heatsink, are they better and what would i need if i went that route ?
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That example was estimated 56% efficiency, COBs running at just over 50W ea and cost $1.53/PAR W. You could get estimated 61% efficiency by running them at 1150mA $1.90/PAR W or 63.5% running them at 770mA (25W ea) $2.61/PAR W.

As the efficiency of the design is increased, the driver and heatsink cost/PAR W decreases so that partially offsets the cost of running more COB softer. If efficiency is a primary concern you could also decrease your target PPFD without sacrificing too much yield from your space.

Running them softer may open up the possibility of passive cooling. There are many heatsink configurations you could go with. My recommendation puts an emphasis on efficient use of heatsink material and trying to optimize the spread of the light in the canopy as much as possible without requiring too many separate heatsinks.

If you put more of the COBs on a single heatsink you might need more vertical height to get a uniform spread in the canopy. It is probably more convenient to setup and work in a space where there are less heatsinks and you can make even more efficient use of the heatsink fan's cooling power that way. In Realstyles design I think he was aiming to experiment with a very high PPFD so he packed a lot of power onto large heatsinks and then packed several of those heatsinks in the tent. Putting an emphasis on yield/sq ft. But for mid range PPFD you would need more spread or more height.
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yes I think that driver and COB combo is a great one size fits all recommendation and it will perform amazingly in terms of efficiency/gpw/heat/lifespan/future proofing/convenience and value. The heatsink configuration is up to your preference and design goals. This is an example of a long bar with fan, power box and driver on board, very utilitarian design.
DSC08567a.jpg

I do run those same COBs at 25W ea and often dimmed even lower. Passive cooled armada of adjustable heatsinks and ~750 PPFD averaged at maximum. It has been a great performing setup for my goals, but I think it is a little eccentric compared to what is necessary to get the job done. I think most growers prefer a more orderly canopy and grow space than what you find in my tents LOL.
DSC08870b 30 CXB3590s.jpg

@Growmau5 ran a batch at 25w ea on long bars and it is very picturesque, orderly and performed great, his numbers coming soon. There is a lot of potential to customize your design so it is impossible to tell anyone exactly what they should build. But those components are a great starting point based on what we know so far.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Straight 3000K, 3500K and 4000K 80 CRi has all worked great IME. Based on that, the next thing that has got my interest is the possibility of partially mixing and matching the colors to flatten the spectrum, ideally without sacrificing electrical efficiency. You could mix:
2700K CB 80 CRi
3000K CB 80 CRi
3500K CD 80 CRi
4000K CD 80 CRi
4000K DB 70 CRi
5000K CD 80 CRi

I have ordered most of those and will be testing each one to see if there are any standouts. I also need to try and compare them with the Vero series and CXB3070 series but that is all still a work in progress.
 
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