Dead Spores

Agar is pretty advanced - you not only need the agar and petri dishes, you need a glove box to work in.

To be honest, I'm a little mixed on agar. It's cool, but it adds a step and an extra week or two. I literally spent more on my agar setup than everything else combined ($300 acrylic glove box on ebay, so fucking sweet)

Thing is, syringes > lc > rye bags > trays works good and is dirt fucking cheap. Spores > agar > lc > rye bags > trays works good, but takes longer, and is a lot of fucking around.

So when it comes to the bags, they can just fruit in the bags? Anyone got some good pictures of flushes in bags?

tibberous said:

Agar is pretty advanced - you not only need the agar and petri dishes, you need a glove box to work in.

To be honest, I'm a little mixed on agar. It's cool, but it adds a step and an extra week or two. I literally spent more on my agar setup than everything else combined ($300 acrylic glove box on ebay, so fucking sweet)

Thing is, syringes > lc > rye bags > trays works good and is dirt fucking cheap. Spores > agar > lc > rye bags > trays works good, but takes longer, and is a lot of fucking around.

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I go like this
spores > grain > fruit > take flesh clone from best cluster, make lc > grain > fruit > lc > grain > fruit > lc. then toss and start new strain.
so for me to use agar might be a little faster at first but if i cant keep my agar (no fridge) it will just go to waste and i'll have to reclone flesh or start over with spores any how.. in which case i like the speed of innoculating with lc compared to agar chunks.

Bwpz said:

So when it comes to the bags, they can just fruit in the bags? Anyone got some good pictures of flushes in bags?

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depend on the bags, but they do sell all in one bags and if you google shroom bags im sure you'll see some.

Let's Grow Mushrooms did a good job of explaining agar plates. They also show you how to make a really cheap glovebox (think big plastic container with hand holes). I've watched the videos and it's worth getting a copy IMO.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Agar-Petri-Dishes

The starting point for mushroom mycelium is the spore. As spores germinate into hyphae, they’re at their weakest and most vulnerable stage. Any contamination they encounter in our artificial environment at this point is likely fatal to them. Therefore, when preparing our Petri dishes we must work under the most sterile conditions we’re able to achieve.

There seems to be a mindset among amateur mushroom growers that using agar is hard. That’s a shame. It’s not hard. It’s a lot of work, and it involves smart work. If you’re lazy or careless, you’ll certainly fail. Careful attention to sterile procedure is a must. You’ll want to at least start out using a glovebox, as you saw demonstrated in Part 2 of the BRF Tek.

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http://www.mushroomvideos.com/BRF-Pf-Tek

This chapter demonstrates the use of a simple ‘glovebox’ made from an inexpensive plastic storage tote you can purchase locally for around $10 or less. The only purpose of the glovebox is to provide an enclosed work area free from the normal drafts in your home. It does not need to be sterile. The only purpose of the glovebox is to provide a place where there is no circulation or ‘wind’ that would otherwise carry possible contaminant mold spores or bacteria from your own breath or body into your sterile media.

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Look up how to make a glovebox, there is one in one of my galaeries here I think (its just a tub with holes cut in it)
Alternatively if you can clean a small toilet or other small carpetless room which you can close for a few minutes so there are no drafts and air particles can get to settle down a bit. (Expect a few fails in a batch then though, but it works , I started that way).

There are a few vids on youtube that shows you how to prepare the syringes with distilled water and please do watch them as they show you how to move your arms so you never go over the opened jars (shedding thousands of skin cells and germs).

DarthD3vl said:

canndo i dont think spore syringe to agar work as well as dry print pressed to agar, is that how you normally start your agar? as you know i've always thought the agar was a waste of time.. i mean for me.. a few extra weeks and you have an indestructable extremely virile clone via agar, but the lcs have produced so well for me, i never saw the need to take the extra time.. i've seen how even and nice your flushes are but i normally pull something near that with lc clones... my last ventures were experiments with lc's and solely popcorn and popcorn wbs mix(had extra) I was pretty happy with the results.

to who ever wanted to buy a kit, never buy a mushroom grow kit, for the very same amount of money you can build your own kit that will produce at the very least twice as much as any kit on the market.

Now the pre sterilzed substrates and bulk spawns are still a rip off, but they do alleviate the amount of work you have to do.. i've always been tempted to just spend the cash, though i never have.

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I never had a problem with syringe to agar, just have a light touch, too much water messes up the dish. I use agar for specific combinations of spores and to isolate strains mostly, and of course cloning - as you said, I can preserve tissue for a rather extended period of time. I have used LC but I like using a blender on a dish in order to make my lc - the hyphae are cut and it takes a day to recover but it works pretty well and my contamination rate is low as a fucntion of the way I do it. If I put spores in a nutrient solution, if even one contam gets in, I've ruined the lc. If I blend, if a contam spore gets in, I've ruined one jar, or one bag.

My pinsets are not a function of my innoculation methods but rely on the genetics, timing, a decent strategy and luck. The point is that 90 percent or so of your total yield will be from the first and second flush. If your first flush sucks your second likely will as well and then you have shorted your yield considerably. Now you have to nurse the thing along hoping it doesn't turn green until you get just one more flush.

My flushes are also a mater of pride, it tends to demonstrate that I have at least this species under control - contrary to my shaggy mane trials. If you want a good pinset, incubate in darkness. Case with part vermiculite and part organics. Grow through the case in darkness. Whe you get about 20 percent coverage expose to light - lots of light, 90 percent humidity and lots of fresh air. If there is some carryover, dust the exposed mycelium with a bit more casing - and if you can, dump the temperature down to 70 or below for two days, then back up to 80 or so.

One more thing.

I do work with agar that likely no one here can do - BUT - they don't have to. I use a LAFH and have a sterile facility but its primary purpose is micropropagation and not mushrooms. Lots of ways work, there is no "better" way unless you are just wanting to excel at the perfect strain in the perfect environment with the perfect pinset - it's like hopping up a chainsaw, very very cool but somewhat overkill when all you want is to have a stack of firewood for the winter. Someone wanted to know what to do with their spore prints and agar seems the best solution for someone who is new.

Some people like to pretend that this particular mushroom is hard to grow - it isn't, it will grow on anything from dog food to books and it will fruit in a wide range of conditions, if you aren't having fun with it then move on to something else - no reason to make it complicated.

I NEVER make an lc from a syringe, only from tissue.. have had ZERO contam rate so far.. to me agar is more difficult, than flesh made lc's, Im not saying I dont understand them. I do and i've used an agar chunk from a freind to make an lc before and it worked great, but i've never personaly needed to use agar. if I was able to refrigerate my agar to keep for longer period, then i would have used it by now im sure.

Yes I know pinset is from genetics, but from genetics YOU isolated using agar, I get similar flushes with my clone lc's, but instead of having a print and agar dish, when I make my clone, I already have fresh mushrooms grown from multispore. no extra time in my situation. almost instant gratification, plus i like just picking out the best mushroom. =)

Really I understand I could get a better isolate using agar, but I couldn't possibly use more mushrooms than i was getting already.. the only advantage for agar for me would be being able to keep clones much longer.. but again i do just fine with out it.

maybe im just lazy lol

I learned using agar, a long long time ago, old habits die hard. I don't want anyone reading this to think that agar is some sort of holy grail or that there is no other way - clearly you have another way Darth, and I'm sure it works well Choempi and I have completely different ideas but he does quite well with his poo.

how do i germinate the jar or rye with spores if i dont have an incubater?? can i just keep it somewhere dark and warm i know its got to be between like 75-85 degrees in order for it to germinate

dwcannan said:

how do i germinate the jar or rye with spores if i dont have an incubater?? can i just keep it somewhere dark and warm i know its got to be between like 75-85 degrees in order for it to germinate

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Yeah some people just put em on a dark shelf, just as long as the temps are right.

complete darkenss until they are done germinating right how hard is it to make an incubater anyways??

They will germinate even at 70 degrees.

dwcannan said:

complete darkenss until they are done germinating right how hard is it to make an incubater anyways??

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I made one with 2 tubs and an aquarium heater, it's easy as hell.

at 70 really cool and tubs?? can you explaine to me how to do it

would some huge tubawear tubs work do so all i got to do is just put the jars in the tub with no water sounds easy enough and i need a lid im assuming right because it needs to be dark

Na I just have mine sitting in there without a lid. I'm using the big 60-some-gallon tubs.

but dont you got to keep them in complete darkness in order for it to germinate