Defend Alcohol

You know what I'd like to see, is someone prominent in the legalization of MJ movement pose this argument to anyone opposed to legalization of MJ. Just a little thought experiment.

First they would have to establish that MJ is equal to (I don't think so) or less dangerous than something already legal like alcohol.

Once that can be agreed upon, which I don't think any sane person could argue with if they are being truly intellectually responsible, my true argument could be placed.

What I'd like proposed is, what if the roles were reversed. Say MJ had history like alcohol and alcohol was prohibited like MJ is today.The person against the legalization of MJ, I would like to see them defend alcohol and propose why it should be legal while having to defend their position against the same crap theories, statistics, talking points and supposed dangers that they do about MJ. Problem is too many of those things would actually be true about alcohol and would be indefensible, unlike how so many if not all things waged against MJ are thin at best and complete f-ing lies at worst.

I would venture to say that their argument to legalize alcohol would fall vastly short of being valid as opposed to the argument to legalize MJ.

What says the peanut gallery......

Well alcohol is easier to control....it is, look how much booze you need to get 100 people drunk. With pot and other illegal drugs, it takes less of the drug and its easier to hide..try hiding a keg of beer vs an OZ of weed.

Alcohol also controls it self, if you take too much of it, U will OD on it and die. The doctors don't call it that, they say its alcohol poisoning but its really overdosing.

@OP: i like your thought process here, i've been down that road and realized that "the argument" is actually already over. We won.

The problem is that the relevant people refuse to acknowledge they've lost the argument, or that any ever actually occurred.

@Skylor: if alcohol was "easy to control," alcohol prohibition would have worked. It didn't.

Cannabis prohibition doesn't work either, but it's now more difficult for "organized crime" to combat the technological and militaristic advancements in use by enforcement agencies, not to mention "the surveillance grid," in the "counter-terrorism era" of the US (what should be Formerly known as the US... these states are not united, and the federal government disregards the bulk of the ideals upon which this country was founded).

A "counter-punch" is still a punch. Think about it. "Counter-terrorism" is still terrorism.

I think ALL drugs should be "legal," and by that i mean: people should be punished for their Harmful Actions, not their choice of inputs. If a meth user can use meth without harming anyone, let them do it. If someone only harms themselves, there is no crime, and no justification for using violence and aggressive coercion tactics to regulate their actions.

Aside from all that... the "authorities" have overstepped their authority and crossed the line into violating our rights. The argument (which has already occurred, which we won) is moot.

The perfect argument will not convince them to change their actions, because they are fundamentally unwilling to be reasonable. They have already decided what is "the correct solution," and they intend to pursue it off the edge of the cliff, regardless of how many innocent lives they take with them in the process.

There should never have been any "controlled substances act" in the first place.

Alcohol was prohibited at one time. All the rich that wanted were still drinking hooch, it's how Joe Kennedy earned the family fortune.

The argument is moot, prohibition of alcohol was costing the government big money.

VERY interesting posts here. I never thought about it in this way; if it were reversed, there is no way in hell anyone would ever legalize alcohol. I don't think there would be many that would want to. Instead, the government would probably try and alter the combustion engine to be more suitable to allow benzyl alcohol as a fuel. Obviously not but I saw on Mythbusters, they fueled 3 different cars on moonshine.

Thers people drinkin the damn hooch? Yer suppos to fill ep yer caar wit that nonsense silly billy

I don't drink, but I'll defend alcohol. It gets you drunk. People like to get drunk. Ugly people get laid, because it is around. Family gatherings are more entertaining because people drink alcohol. It doesn't take too many brains to make it. Sugar and yeast will make it, so in order to keep it away from people, self reporting will have to be more acceptable. That is probably not going to happen. Most of all, it affects people differently. Some can handle it well, some cannot handle it well. There shouldn't be a law to ban anything that some people enjoy w/o causing harm to others.

Say the word.

PBS put out a great documentary on Prohibition that resonated with the same issues we are dealing with today regarding the prohibition on MJ. The problems the "Wets" encountered with repealing Prohibition are also the same that we experience with decriminalizing MJ. The "Drys" held steadfastly to their ideology that the country was somehow better off if alcohol was illegal in spite of mounting evidence that their reasons were either based upon flawed logic or they ignored the new problems caused by prohibition. Across the country, it became clear to many that the rise criminal organizations funded by illegally selling alcohol, people killed by poisonous ingredients and there being no way to prevent sales to minors in a black market were unacceptable trade-offs to the purported benefit of banning the legal sale of something that got people high. Prohibition was eventually repealed because enough people became sick and tired of the problems and costs associated with it. To this day, in some counties in the US, the sale of alcohol is still banned. At the borders of these counties are Liquor stores that supply alcohol to the residents of the dry county. Go figure

The people defending prohibition on MJ are cut from the same ideological cloth as the Drys. Logic won't work on people that make decisions based on faith. We need to be willing to calmly push our own agenda in spite of what they say. The tide is turning. In my state (OR), we gathered 56% of the vote to decriminalize MJ. It took many attempts at the ballot and lot of fine tuning of the details in the measure that finally passed but basically most of the people in my state became sick and tired of the cost of prohibition. The opposition is dogged and doesn't care about you, me, the truth, reason, logic or cost. They only care about defending their faith. They have to be met firmly, consistently, honestly and rationally. As with the Drys of the last century, the people who oppose the decriminalization of MJ are being revealed as some combination of lunatic, hypocrite and a modern version of flat-earther.

So, yeah, it took me a long time to get back to the topic of this thread. Yes, the logic behind repealing the prohibition on alcohol and the logic of repealing the prohibition on MJ is almost a perfect match. This logic won't work on the opposition but can work on people that either sit on the fence or haven't given it much thought. Its worth trotting out when discussing the issue and resonates with the history of this country.

There is no good reason to drink Alcohol!

I'd say German Riesling is a fine reason to drink alcohol.

Good reason to keep alcohol legal: nothing is more effective at dropping panties.

Keep Alcohol Legal: ugly people need love too.

I'm glad this thread has gotten some legs... like FOGDOG said..I think the talking point about how and why alcohol was prohibited and then DE-prohibited is one of our best examples as to how and why cannabis should be DE-prohibited. The biggest issue I see as a difference is how much harder the government has gone after just simple possession and use of cannabis, over how it seems back in the day they handled alcohol violations. Oh sure they busted speakeasys and shut down stills, but I also don't think they had for profit prisons and such a grossly over-funded DEA type agency. Those are such big gorillas to try to fight we are not just trying to convince people of the ills of prohibition..we are also trying to fight BIGGGGGG money interests..which in my opinion is a much bigger adversary than the "drys". I think to some degree "drys" can be turned eventually either through logic or as bad as it sounds, changed because someone they care about gets sick and cannabis can help them. With the DEA and prisons...that's a whole other animal all together..you are talking about money and peoples livelihoods being lowered or done away with all together. I think we should be trying to find a way to roll some of those agencies into the legal market...say switching the DEA over to some form of regulatory agency for the cannabis legal market...like BATF. Now don't get me wrong, I know that might just be trading one monster for another, but if it means cannabis legalization I'd be willing to try. Now for the for profit prisons...those just need to be abolished whole cloth..the idea of a private entity having a monetary vested interest in imprisoning US citizens goes so against our own constitution and bill of rights it's staggering!! Let's face it there is little to no chance we are going to be able to get cannabis legalization without the government being involved..we are decades away from cannabis being treated like tomatoes, but every waterfall starts with just a single drop

I wonder this...how long do states need to be fully legal like CO/OR/WA/AK and DC, and them show to not have their sky's falling..will it be so overwhelmingly obvious even to fence sitters and even the "drys" as FOGDOG put it, that prohibition is pointless and even harmful?

jasonzbtzl said:

The biggest issue I see as a difference is how much harder the government has gone after just simple possession and use of cannabis, over how it seems back in the day they handled alcohol violations. Oh sure they busted speakeasys and shut down stills, but I also don't think they had for profit prisons and such a grossly over-funded DEA type agency.

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The beginnings of the DEA police actions can be found in the enforcement of the Volstead Act but the scope of their actions were nothing like what we see today. Echos from the past can be heard when we discuss repealing the prohibition on MJ but, you are right, there are differences too. One could argue that the prohibition of alcohol was much more corrosive to the fabric of this nation than the prohibition of MJ. If you have a Netflix account, the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition is available on the streaming service.

One of the things that I got out of the documentary is that in the case of MJ, we knew better than to -- without a good reason -- prohibit a behavior that in most cases gave pleasure and enhanced social interaction. It didn't work for alcohol and it isn't working for MJ. Historical facts can be used to defend and explain current action to roll back MJ prohibition.

I don't think that its going to take long for many states to follow those that rolled back prohibition of MJ. I lived in Idaho for a while. I liked living there very much -- great country and really nice people -- but I don't see Idaho repealing MJ prohibition for a loooooooong time. Some places are going to take longer. As a pilot once said over the intercom after landing, "We have landed at the Boise Airport, remember to set your watches back one hour and ten years."

moondance said:

There is no good reason to drink Alcohol!

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Reasons? We ain’t got no reasons! We don’t need no reasons! I don’t have to show you any stinking reasons!

And everyone else is entitled to their opinion. There is no good reason for alcohol!

everything fermented has alcohol in it and you can have my bread when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers

Feel like I've been flushed down the useless thought process toilet.
This is your brain on drugs.
How about ways to prepare shrimp! What if Bubba Gump had survived would there be more ways. I propose we have a seance to reach the thinking and then we can discuss.

Dadioski said:

Feel like I've been flushed down the useless thought process toilet.
This is your brain on drugs.
How about ways to prepare shrimp! What if Bubba Gump had survived would there be more ways. I propose we have a seance to reach the thinking and then we can discuss.

Click to expand...

YUP! Especially when people want to question the use alcohol! I actually think that Moondance was serious. Oh well, Jason tried to start a discussion.

I like to prepare shrimp on the barbeque. Marinade with lemon, olive oil, rosemary and wine. Skewer them and grill them over hot coals.

If the government were too stupid to collect profit from alcohol sale I'm pretty sure somebody else would take over....I would consider the possibility myself