Design is everything.. lighting needed?

I have been growing for about a year now.. started out by spending 4 grand on 2 led lights, only to realize that sticking with what's proven was probably a better idea.. so I recently purchased a de 1000w hps fixture.. 400 bux... lol but I am looking into growing on a semi large scale... would like to gain 4-6 lbs per harvest... have a space that's 20x20 that I am using...gonna be growing high yield strains in 10 gallon containers in ff soil... going to build homemade room inside my space.. curious what size room I should setup and number of 1000 watt lights needed to achieve this weight... this will be my 4th grow and have improved a little at a time... but I have found so many conflicting answers online it's confusing... watts/lumens per sqft... and number of plants per sq ft... every sight says something different... any adv8ce would be appreciated and $$ is not a problem... thanx in advance...
#mjforeverybody

blacspiral said:

I have been growing for about a year now.. started out by spending 4 grand on 2 led lights, only to realize that sticking with what's proven was probably a better idea.. so I recently purchased a de 1000w hps fixture.. 400 bux... lol but I am looking into growing on a semi large scale... would like to gain 4-6 lbs per harvest... have a space that's 20x20 that I am using...gonna be growing high yield strains in 10 gallon containers in ff soil... going to build homemade room inside my space.. curious what size room I should setup and number of 1000 watt lights needed to achieve this weight... this will be my 4th grow and have improved a little at a time... but I have found so many conflicting answers online it's confusing... watts/lumens per sqft... and number of plants per sq ft... every sight says something different... any adv8ce would be appreciated and $$ is not a problem... thanx in advance...
#mjforeverybody

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There is not one answer set in stone there are so many different possibilities different growing styles and way you were taught and what you have learned.
You mentioned leds what lights did you get? A lot of people are switching to cob leds and moving away from hps I am one of them the recommendations I have will be for de hps
In my room is 14'x16' I run 24 plants perpetual and I will harvest from 3 to 4 lbs a month depending on the strain. I use 3 gallon smart pots
in that area i would plan 2 rows of plants 4' x 18' scrog with a 3 foot isle down the middle then I would either have 2 rooms 8x12 and 8x8 the 8x12 is veg room and the 8x8 is drying and storage or just one room 8 x 20 and have a drying tent inside the room.
The number of lights in flower I would say 8 to cover the canopy I suggested that is not including the 4 ton mini split you will need for the heat of the hps. I suggest 6k btu of cooling per open hood if you are going to vent the hoods then you will need 4k btu of cooling per hood.
I could care less about number of plants per square foot i'm not limited on space and im not growing in tents here we have plant count and you are limited by that number to stay legal.
If you are worried about watts and lumens then you will be building your own cob leds, otherwise the de you have will light up a 4x4 no problem in flower. Nothing else to worry about.
For veg 3 or 4 600 watt mh depends if you want to keep moms

Well I originally bought 2 600 watt black dog Phytomax leds... thinking that was gonna grow me 20 plants... lmao... I'm not gonna do a perpetual harvest... I'm just gonna do one large grow at a time...would like to try scrog... later down the line.. I have learned a lot about training as far as cropping phemming and lst... have been very successful actually... and I know all that,affects your yield... I'm kinda lookin for a watts per sqft answer... I hear 50 is moderate 65 is perfect... my de lamp is a yield lab and has been impressive so far.. but your 8 lights is scary sounding... they use about 2.50-3.00 per day in electricity.. that's 24$ a day... worried that may bring up some red flags... lol
I have been looking at Cobb led but again.. I already spent 4 grand on two lights that,barely grow 2 plants... and worried that the technology is still to new..and deceived hps seems to be a proven yield monster.... and at the time I was under the impression that,black dog was like THE BEST.. even better than kind... only the bml spider was comparable on quality... but I am very passionate about this and willing to try anything...

a lot of growers up here a switching to 630 watt CMH from 1000 watt HPS. until your growing skills develop you should not expect more the 0.56 grams per watt so for a 6 pound harvest you should run 5-1000 watt HPS lights. you may get away with 5- 630 watt cmh. some people love LEDs some people hate them. the larger horticultural community does not see them as great grow lights or cost effective. even LED makers can't agree on the best spectrum.some company claim that plants can only use 40% of the light produced by white LEDs and their is a lot of false information out their so choosing the right led grow light comes down to trial and error. HIDs are proven technology

blacspiral said:

Well I originally bought 2 600 watt black dog Phytomax leds... thinking that was gonna grow me 20 plants... lmao... I'm not gonna do a perpetual harvest... I'm just gonna do one large grow at a time...would like to try scrog... later down the line.. I have learned a lot about training as far as cropping phemming and lst... have been very successful actually... and I know all that,affects your yield... I'm kinda lookin for a watts per sqft answer... I hear 50 is moderate 65 is perfect... my de lamp is a yield lab and has been impressive so far.. but your 8 lights is scary sounding... they use about 2.50-3.00 per day in electricity.. that's 24$ a day... worried that may bring up some red flags... lol
I have been looking at Cobb led but again.. I already spent 4 grand on two lights that,barely grow 2 plants... and worried that the technology is still to new..and deceived hps seems to be a proven yield monster.... and at the time I was under the impression that,black dog was like THE BEST.. even better than kind... only the bml spider was comparable on quality... but I am very passionate about this and willing to try anything...

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Doing one grow at a times makes it a lot easier.
Well if you take 1000w and divide by the square footage it will give you your answer.
So a 4x4 =16sq' take 1000w/16=62.5 wsq' now if you increase it to a 5x5-25 sq' is 40 wsq'
My electricity bill was about $500-$600 a month and that was running 4 lights on light rails. If your in a non medical state and thinking about 6 lbs a harvest then you will look at something more efficient than hps because a general baseline is a lb a light.
For me to just turn on the lights I need 70A and with the cobs I need 40A even if the yield stays the same .75 gpw I am saving on the electric every month.

mauricem00 said:

a lot of growers up here a switching to 630 watt CMH from 1000 watt HPS. until your growing skills develop you should not expect more the 0.56 grams per watt so for a 6 pound harvest you should run 5-1000 watt HPS lights. you may get away with 5- 630 watt cmh. some people love LEDs some people hate them. the larger horticultural community does not see them as great grow lights or cost effective. even LED makers can't agree on the best spectrum.some company claim that plants can only use 40% of the light produced by white LEDs and their is a lot of false information out their so choosing the right led grow light comes down to trial and error. HIDs are proven technology

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Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I was wondering, what is the difference in terms of lumen output in Metal Halides and Ceramic Metal Halides (CMH)?...I am currently running a 600w MH bulb, the fixture it screws into appears to be ceramic upon observation...but that is just observation, of course. I was looking at adding some smaller LED panels for supplemental lighting, however, if these "new" HID CMH's are that much more efficient, I may just purchase one of those 630w's to replace my current 600w MH/HPS...
Very sorry for going off topic, and apologies for my general noobiness lol, I've only a couple grows under my belt and am still a beginner.

To my understanding the ceramic metal halide is different bulb.. it lights differently burning hotter and putting off a better spectrum.. the 630 watt fixtures are around 700$ but have been getting very good reviews... leds are very very hit or miss.. and require a little different growing styles to be productive... in my opinion. I would stick with what's proven

I used a 2.4m x 2.4m x2m tent with a temp controller for the extraction and intake. Ive had to build a window box for this one as ive opted to run 4 x 1000w with digital ballsts

I have a 10" silent inline fan which is pulling from outside via my window box for the out take iam using a 12" silent inline which is a beast! This with 12 girls topped with lst training and defoliation techniques flipped at circa 800mm.... i can crop around 7 lbs every 3 months on a cycle with a veg room.

BlacSpiral; I am running a 600w MH bulb in a 5x5 tent and heat, even now in January, is an issue...keeping below 78 degrees is almost impossible...and I am running DWC, so temps that high can be bad for me. You're saying that the CMH runs at a higher temperature, which is in essence what you're trading off for the increased available spectrum?...Perhaps I should wait awhile before buying a new HID and/or LED system. Regardless, I'd like to find some LED's that work good as purely supplemental lighting. And wow 2Ton, I envy you buddy!! Haha What CFM's are your inline fans running 2Ton? I have two 90cfm inline fans, one intake, one outtake (which then is redirected to the cooltube). I think a bigger inline fan would help keep my temps down, and may even be the primary reason I'm having temp issues...I mean, it's plenty cold enough outside considering I grow in a concrete basement.
Thank both of you for the information, I know noobs like me get irritating!
Happy Growing to all

I meant to say; I understand now that you mean it's a bulb, not an actual fixture/setup in itself...sorry! Lol

Actually bulb burns hotter because of the combustion of gases inside... but doesn't actually put off more heat... it puts of less ambient heat to ur grow room.. probably be well suited for your operation.. hearing and reading very good things about cmh.

Logan Burke said:

BlacSpiral; I am running a 600w MH bulb in a 5x5 tent and heat, even now in January, is an issue...keeping below 78 degrees is almost impossible...and I am running DWC, so temps that high can be bad for me. You're saying that the CMH runs at a higher temperature, which is in essence what you're trading off for the increased available spectrum?...Perhaps I should wait awhile before buying a new HID and/or LED system. Regardless, I'd like to find some LED's that work good as purely supplemental lighting. And wow 2Ton, I envy you buddy!! Haha What CFM's are your inline fans running 2Ton? I have two 90cfm inline fans, one intake, one outtake (which then is redirected to the cooltube). I think a bigger inline fan would help keep my temps down, and may even be the primary reason I'm having temp issues...I mean, it's plenty cold enough outside considering I grow in a concrete basement.
Thank both of you for the information, I know noobs like me get irritating!
Happy Growing to all

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Morning mate the 12" Air Force Acoustic Fan pull 3380m3/h and the 10" Air Force Acoustic Fan 2350m3/h. The setup cost me just short of 3k to set up. It was worth every penny as there is nothing worse than not being able to control your environment propperly!! Esspecially when you have big plants like i have!!

My holy god your plants should be well ventilated 2Ton! Haha that must push the air around more than enough! I agree, I am always willing to spend the extra money if I am 100% sure it will help my babies. So, from my interpretation of your g uy's comments, I can buy a CMH bulb and put it in my 600w fixture? Assuming of course I can find a 600w CMH bulb. Or is this only compatible with HID's made specifically for CMH bulbs? Don't worry I'm about off of your guy's backs haha that was my last question! I'd like to see your setup if you ever do a grow journal by the way 2Ton.
Thanks a lot to both of you!
Happy Growing

Logan Burke said:

My holy god your plants should be well ventilated 2Ton! Haha that must push the air around more than enough! I agree, I am always willing to spend the extra money if I am 100% sure it will help my babies. So, from my interpretation of your g uy's comments, I can buy a CMH bulb and put it in my 600w fixture? Assuming of course I can find a 600w CMH bulb. Or is this only compatible with HID's made specifically for CMH bulbs? Don't worry I'm about off of your guy's backs haha that was my last question! I'd like to see your setup if you ever do a grow journal by the way 2Ton.
Thanks a lot to both of you!
Happy Growing

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Yes I've done a few ... http://rollitup.org/t/incredible-bulk-critical-2-0-kripple-roulette-kripple-shock-original-amnesia-haze.925917/#post-13272843

Logan Burke said:

My holy god your plants should be well ventilated 2Ton! Haha that must push the air around more than enough! I agree, I am always willing to spend the extra money if I am 100% sure it will help my babies. So, from my interpretation of your g uy's comments, I can buy a CMH bulb and put it in my 600w fixture? Assuming of course I can find a 600w CMH bulb. Or is this only compatible with HID's made specifically for CMH bulbs? Don't worry I'm about off of your guy's backs haha that was my last question! I'd like to see your setup if you ever do a grow journal by the way 2Ton.
Thanks a lot to both of you!
Happy Growing

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No a cmh will not work. Since you have hps and not de the base of the light fixture is a mogul socket cmh are different you will also need a different ballast. The cheapest way to get into cmh is http://growershouse.com/ceramic-science-315w-cmh-light-conversion-kit
You will see the difference in the sockets in the pics.

Logan Burke said:

BlacSpiral; I am running a 600w MH bulb in a 5x5 tent and heat, even now in January, is an issue...keeping below 78 degrees is almost impossible...and I am running DWC, so temps that high can be bad for me. You're saying that the CMH runs at a higher temperature, which is in essence what you're trading off for the increased available spectrum?...Perhaps I should wait awhile before buying a new HID and/or LED system. Regardless, I'd like to find some LED's that work good as purely supplemental lighting. And wow 2Ton, I envy you buddy!! Haha What CFM's are your inline fans running 2Ton? I have two 90cfm inline fans, one intake, one outtake (which then is redirected to the cooltube). I think a bigger inline fan would help keep my temps down, and may even be the primary reason I'm having temp issues...I mean, it's plenty cold enough outside considering I grow in a concrete basement.
Thank both of you for the information, I know noobs like me get irritating!
Happy Growing to all

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I was having the same problem untill this month! I had a shit Ton of leds and t5s running and had an intake and 4 inch exhaust. My big air conditioner stayed on 24/7 blowing cool air in.
I purchased a 600w air cooled apollo hps a couple weeks ago and a 6 inch fan with carbon filter. When I hooked the air cooled light up with the 6 inch fan, my temps dropped from 78-80 average to 60 with ac.
I turned my air conditioner off and it hasn't been on since, my temps now stay about 68..
Air cooled hoods are the shit, and a 6 inch can make a HUGE difference when comparing it to a 4 inch.

stay smokin'