Diagnosing The Problem

JohnCee · Jul 1, 2015

Within the course of 3-4 days my entire plant has been covered in these tiny splotches, and I am starting to notice some discoloration around the edges of the leaves as well.

I'm running DWC in a 5 gallon bucket, ph has always been between 5.8-6.0, feeding floraduo A&B, and yesterday I added GH CALiMAGic.

I cut off a few samples because under my leds these look like bright orange dots. Thoughts?

caveman117 · Jul 1, 2015

My first thought is calcium.
Is it only on those leaves or a lot of leaves?

Have you noticed any other signs of cal issues? And have you seen leaves with a more progressed damage than these?

JohnCee · Jul 1, 2015

caveman117 said:
My first thought is calcium.
Is it only on those leaves or a lot of leaves?

Have you noticed any other signs of cal issues? And have you seen leaves with a more progressed damage than these?

That was my first thought as well, which is why yesterday I added the CALiMAGic for the first time. It's nearly on all of the leaves except what just grows in, but shortly after after establishing it sets in on the newer growth as well. I'm not quite sure what any of the other signs of calcium problem are though.

caveman117 · Jul 1, 2015

Other symptoms are maybe some curling here and there and possibly some weakish stems?

JohnCee · Jul 1, 2015

caveman117 said:
Other symptoms are maybe some curling here and there and possibly some weakish stems?

It's hard to tell the difference because I had to adjust the light and raise it higher because I felt like the edges of the leaves were curling because of the light being too close. I have a 300w led that I had at 15 inches and currently raised it to 28 inches.

Hotboxbudz · Jul 1, 2015

*boots up weed comp 4000XL* ......diagnosing the problem * 1990 dialup modem sounds* BING! Diagnosis complete. .........shits fucked up yo.

caveman117 · Jul 2, 2015

Calcim moves through the plany very slowly. And thr damagrd leaves won't heal sojust lookfor new damage

JohnCee · Jul 15, 2015

caveman117 said:
Calcim moves through the plany very slowly. And thr damagrd leaves won't heal sojust lookfor new damage

Well some time has passed and I have noticed the newer growth also slowly starting to show the same signs. Here are some more images.

Thoughts?

JohnCee · Jul 30, 2015

Well, after some more time it does not look like as much vegetation is showing the same signs. However, that is still some growth that shows these signs, and it's completely random where the leave is located at on the plant. Here are a couple more examples:

Also, since this is my first grow what should I be doing with my plant at this point? I started it from seed on 05/23/2015 and it's nearly 20 inches high. I'm not sure on the sex, but I have a clone running under 12/12 to see what I can figure out.

Do you think it's healthy enough to flower, or should I hold off until I figure out the issue completely?

Singlemalt · Jul 30, 2015

Boost the ph to 6.5-7.2 for a bit and see

tyler.durden · Jul 30, 2015

Beside a nute problem, two possibilities come to mind: do you have an ozone machine around them? A couple of those pics looks like thrip damage. A few years ago my leaves looked like a few of those pics, and I didn't discover the problem for weeks. They are so fucking tiny that they're way harder to detect than mites. Spray a little pyrethrin on the underside of some leaves, grab a magnifying glass and see if you can detect any movement. Good luck...

JohnCee · Aug 2, 2015

tyler.durden said:
Beside a nute problem, two possibilities come to mind: do you have an ozone machine around them? A couple of those pics looks like thrip damage. A few years ago my leaves looked like a few of those pics, and I didn't discover the problem for weeks. They are so fucking tiny that they're way harder to detect than mites. Spray a little pyrethrin on the underside of some leaves, grab a magnifying glass and see if you can detect any movement. Good luck...

I do not have an ozone machine around them. I have actually realized that I have quite the bug problem within the last two days. From seeing no bugs to watching 6 gnats crawl up out of my hydroton, which two of those crawled onto a yellow sticky trap, adding to the 8 already stuck on there. I opened up the lid to check the water levels and also found several misquotes and many more gnats come flying up. In my self made tent with 3m poly-plastic there is an opening which is exposed and there is a tiny crawl area with tons of dirty and other unwanted stuff. Unfortunately, there really is no way to block it off at this point due to where it's actually placed and how the rest of my setup is arranged around it. I'm working on a better solution, however that will not be completed for several weeks.

While out today I did manage to pick up some Bonide Pyrethrin Garden Insect Spray Concentrate. From my understanding I am supposed to mix 1 tablespoon per quart of water into a spray bottle and completely saturate my plant right before or after lights out. However, what should I do about the insects crawling in and out of my hydroton and into the roots/water? Is this safe enough to spray on the roots? Would it also work in my favor to spray the rest of my tent all over the walls, in the crawl space area, and even on my clones in the same area? Should I follow up the next night with a dose of ph'd water?

JohnCee · Aug 2, 2015

I never get a reply the same day or night I plan on doing something. Really not sure about the spray.

tyler.durden · Aug 2, 2015

JohnCee said:
I do not have an ozone machine around them. I have actually realized that I have quite the bug problem within the last two days. From seeing no bugs to watching 6 gnats crawl up out of my hydroton, which two of those crawled onto a yellow sticky trap, adding to the 8 already stuck on there. I opened up the lid to check the water levels and also found several misquotes and many more gnats come flying up. In my self made tent with 3m poly-plastic there is an opening which is exposed and there is a tiny crawl area with tons of dirty and other unwanted stuff. Unfortunately, there really is no way to block it off at this point due to where it's actually placed and how the rest of my setup is arranged around it. I'm working on a better solution, however that will not be completed for several weeks.

While out today I did manage to pick up some Bonide Pyrethrin Garden Insect Spray Concentrate. From my understanding I am supposed to mix 1 tablespoon per quart of water into a spray bottle and completely saturate my plant right before or after lights out. However, what should I do about the insects crawling in and out of my hydroton and into the roots/water? Is this safe enough to spray on the roots? Would it also work in my favor to spray the rest of my tent all over the walls, in the crawl space area, and even on my clones in the same area? Should I follow up the next night with a dose of ph'd water?

If they're fungus gnats, they shouldn't hurt things too badly if kept under control. I rarely seem to be gnat free. You can spray the pyrethrin into the hydroton if not too concentrated, it breaks down into harmless by product with 24 hours, anyway. If I were you I'd get some Azamax and make a light solution, spray everything and dip the clones if possible. That shit works on almost every pest, and provides lasting protection. I used to dip every new clone in it and never had a problem as long as you error on the light side of application, too heavy burns your ladies. Once your pretty much bug free, you can saturate the roots and hydroton with Gnatrol, that stuff is amazing at killing of the gnats. Good luck!

JohnCee · Aug 3, 2015

tyler.durden said:
If they're fungus gnats, they shouldn't hurt things too badly if kept under control. I rarely seem to be gnat free. You can spray the pyrethrin into the hydroton if not too concentrated, it breaks down into harmless by product with 24 hours, anyway. If I were you I'd get some Azamax and make a light solution, spray everything and dip the clones if possible. That shit works on almost every pest, and provides lasting protection. I used to dip every new clone in it and never had a problem as long as you error on the light side of application, too heavy burns your ladies. Once your pretty much bug free, you can saturate the roots and hydroton with Gnatrol, that stuff is amazing at killing of the gnats. Good luck!

I tried the pyrethrin last night using 7.5ml to 2 cups of water into a spray bottle and went crazy.. I haven't noticed any bugs today. How often should I be reapplying this? Purchasing the Azamax is really not in the budget at the moment since I just bought the pyrethrin.. that will have to be something for the future though.

I did notice that my plant is getting heavy and I'm afraid the self created mesh basket is going to drop into the hole cut out by hand into the lid.. I didn't count on the plant weighing this much. I'm able to grab my plant by the stalk and gently lift the basket out of the lid slightly, but the roots are way to wide to pull it out of the lid. The clerk at the hydro store suggested that I get some bamboo rods and it up. I just feel that my plant has gotten really bushy and I don't really know what I should be doing at this point. Getting light down into the plant is proving to be difficult. Also, there has been quite a bit of damage to some of the leaves due to bugs, nutes, lighting,etc.. what should I be doing to these leaves? Should I trim things up? Currently standing at 20inches.

tyler.durden · Aug 3, 2015

Lol at your fear of the net cup fall through. That can happen, what a nice problem to have that your plant is so huge. Dwc is tough for a noob as there's so much to closely monitor, but that's how I started, too. Nice to hear that the pyrethrin seems to be working, you should reapply every 3 days for at least 3 cycles. This will cover most insect breeding cycles and hatching. Consider using a lighter end of the mix rate, you don't want to burn your ladies. The leaves that are really trashed just snip 'em, if they're more than 50% intact I'd keep 'em. If your going to stake your plants, use plastic dowels, you can actually get bugs from bamboo, plus plastic is water proof and holds up better to moisture. How far into flower are you, is the stretch done yet? The plants are gonna get much heavier with buds...

JohnCee · Aug 6, 2015

tyler.durden said:
Lol at your fear of the net cup fall through. That can happen, what a nice problem to have that your plant is so huge. Dwc is tough for a noob as there's so much to closely monitor, but that's how I started, too. Nice to hear that the pyrethrin seems to be working, you should reapply every 3 days for at least 3 cycles. This will cover most insect breeding cycles and hatching. Consider using a lighter end of the mix rate, you don't want to burn your ladies. The leaves that are really trashed just snip 'em, if they're more than 50% intact I'd keep 'em. If your going to stake your plants, use plastic dowels, you can actually get bugs from bamboo, plus plastic is water proof and holds up better to moisture. How far into flower are you, is the stretch done yet? The plants are gonna get much heavier with buds...

I'm roughly 75 days in veg from seed. I'm trying to sex my plant with a clone that I have taken, but it's not showing anything at the moment (after 9 days) according to the replies my separate thread for trying to figure out the sex. After applying the pyrethrin I have noticed more damage on my leaves in addition to some burning from what I am assuming to be from the pyrethrin spray. A lot of the lower leaves are burned some what heavy. Here's a couple pictures that show what I believe to be the pyrethrin burn:

Like I mentioned.. there was some more noticeable changes to the leaves as well after applying the spray that looked like this:

What's worse is that my clone is starting to show signs as well:

The new growth comes in fantastic:

Top view (day after spray):

--
Edit: To follow the every 3 days for applying the pyrethrin I mixed a lighter solution giving 3.5ml of pyrethrin for 2 cups of water. I applied this at roughly 11am this morning about 5 hours into the light schedule. Should I refrain from doing applying any more pyrethrin considering the possible burn? Next time I will apply it when lights go out for the night.

tyler.durden · Aug 6, 2015

So you've applied the spray 3 days ago, and again today? If so, I wouldn't spray for another 3 days. By spraying on this schedule, you are trying to kill any hachlings that were laid 3 days prior. If you repeat this cycle enough (3-5 times), you should be bug free. I'm glad you went for a lighter mix rate, it does stress your ladies a little, the hope is it's still less stress than spray. For thrips, which I think you have/had, this is the best product I found and didn't stress the ladies at all - http://www.amazon.com/Monterey-LG6135-Contains-Spinosad-32-Ounce/dp/B002BP12LI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438885446&sr=8-1&keywords=spinosad

It's really great for everything I've dealt with except mites. As you can afford it, make sure to stock up on different insecticides. This way you have what you need on hand, and can rotate them so the bugs don't gain an immunity. You are spraying the undersides of your leaves, right? Have you looked under your leaves after you spray for signs of movement with a jeweler's loupe or magnifying glass?

cassinfo · Aug 6, 2015

Wtf is this!! Outdoor in mother earth.

Diagnosing The Problem

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