Diagnosis requested. All info available, and more upon request.

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Id like to make a formal request in the plant problem section for help. I've researched, and checked and read and read, and meanwhile she's only getting worse, and showing additional symptoms. With this information, SOMEONE should be able to give me an accurate diagnosis of my baby. :sad:
Normally, I hate to ask, but at this point. I need advice from someone with more experience then I.

Ok, so here's the whole deal.;
Strain: Platinum OG Kush Bagseed
Age: 17-18 days
Soil: (REUSED-I know, stupid...) FFOF. Before using, I kept the soil moistened with pH balanced water, rotated and aerated it daily for a week, before transplanting my little sprout into it.
Pot size: 8.5in Diameter/7.5in height (approx 1.5 gallon pot) {21.6cm diameter/19.1cm height}
Lights:11PM - 9AM; 287 true-watts of light. I have 7 23W 6500K CFL's, and 3 42W 2300K CFL's running in there, with reflectors (picture with breakdown included)
Lights: 9AM-2:30PM; Direct Sunlight (everyday)
Watering: Been watering her every 4-6 days or so, whenever the pot feels light enough and she seems to need it.
Nutes: Since the soil has been leeched of any nutrients when I was reusing it, I did Miracle Grow All Purpose (24-8-16) at 1/8th strength) for one of the 4 waterings she's received. The final watering (before issues), she was given about 20oz of water with 1 single drop of superthrive, as well as a misting with 1 drop in the spray bottle. { This worries me, as it was the last thing to happen before the onset of serious issues. But i've NEVER had a plant react to the stuff so drastically... so I have my doubts as to how much the Superthrive had to do with it.
rH: Hovers between 15-28%
Temps: Between 68°F - 81.5°F (depending on her light source)

Her problems began approx 40 hours or so ago. It began with her clawing as seen in the pics, and soon after, the leaf tips began to dry up and die, after turning a greenish yellow color.
Her new growth is looking a little yellowish, and everything is clawing and beginning to show the same signs as the second set of leaf tips did.

After all this, I realized i'd forgotten to check the runoff before transplant, and when I did, I found that the pH was extremely low, in the 3.5-4.0 area.
I gave her a good flush of R/O pH 6.5 pure water, about 160oz of water until the runoff was back to about 6.5 again.
But the final check I ran (5 of 5, when 4 and 3 were properly balanced) came out at about a 4.5 or so.
I thought I had this situation in hand, but I find myself growing more and more worried, as her growth will be stunted if I can't pull her out of this issue before long.

So, any advice or thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
The only information I can really find tells me that;
A) My soil pH is off and needs to be fixed.
B) She's suffering from Nitrogen abundance.
C) My rH is too low
D) The heat of the sun (I live in the desert, and the heat from direct sunlight isn't a joke here) is causing issues with her.

If anyone has dealt with this before, please let me know what I should do to fix it.
I'm considering doing another flush in order to confirm that her pH is well balanced... but I don't want to over saturate the soil if I don't have to. Flushing is more of a last resort then a cure-all in my opinion.

Please no insults about my poor choices. (primarily in my decision to REUSE soil, which was a big mistake)


So this was her just over 48 hours ago;
Picture 002.jpgView attachment 3026463View attachment 3026464View attachment 3026465

This was her at the onset of symptoms, it began with simple clawing on her second set of leaves (3 leaf set)
View attachment 3026466View attachment 3026467View attachment 3026468View attachment 3026469


And sadly... this is her now. :'(

View attachment 3026471View attachment 3026472View attachment 3026473View attachment 3026474View attachment 3026475

And the lighting setup for her currently. The grow is in a cardboard box, which i'm sure only drops the humidity even further.
View attachment 3026476


I very much would love some feedback, and/or help. Thank you.
 

Metasynth

Well-Known Member
How are you exhausting the heat from under the reflectors...I see the two axial fans you have above the reflectors, you have more below them as well? What are the temperatures in there? did you recently add more light or more the lights closer? Just wondering.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
As stated in my OP. The temps range from 68-81 depending on the time.

And I have tons of exhaust. I have added more lighting, but the temps are well cared for, and the circulation in there is more then enough. I have a Stanley blower fan modded to accept ducting pulling outside air into the closet and pushing it into the lower box, and with 7 PC fans wired up and running, there's 3 intake and 4 exhaust running.

This design;
View attachment 3026516


As I mentioned with lighting, there's more bulbs added recently, but she sits under the sun for 6 hours a day, has since birth, and she's just now showing these issues.
Any issues caused by additional CFL's (duel spectrum) would have cropped up in the sun long ago?

Also, my thermometer sits on the side of the pot itself, so it gets the same temps she does, there's no discrepancy.
 

jaybray

Member
Super thrive would be my guess. You may have burnt her a little by foliage praying with the super thrive. If you were not having issues before spraying than I would assume it has something to do with applying a foliage spray.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Seems logical enough. But I dunno, the damage looks different then a simple burn. I suppose it could be multiple issues in concert with one another. :\ I'll look into that. I really need to check my runoff though. I'm just hesitant to start dumping water back into the pot again. :\
I appreciate the input, very much thank you.
 

jaybray

Member
no worries the guy to hunt down is snaps he will more than likely have a more definite answer. Other than that I wish you and her best of luck.
 

Nizza

Well-Known Member
shut some of those lights off, the plants would be fine under 1 or 2 bulbs, and the heat drop will help them grow better!

One of the things I find effects my grow , the most, and is the hardest to control, is soil temperature. A soil thermometer is around 8 $ . If you can keep the soil at 60-70 deg F, you're gonna see good results. Of course there are other factors, but I find soil temp one of the most important things; you may be getting the soil too warm with all those lights. Once the plant gets big enough to shade the pot, the extra lights shouldn't warm to soil as much, and maybe you can insulate the pots. If you have a problem with soil temps you can water @ 63 deg F, and it should slowly rise to 70 deg F if insulated. By the time it hits 70 you should be able to water again and bring it back down. Hope this helps!

i also agree with the soil portion. You should have used fresh soil with buffers. The old soil most likely has nothing to buffer the pH to where it should be, and once the plant starts needing nutes it might really hate it, right now it looks okay though

consider transplanting into some fresh good stuff, I like happy frog , this grow I used 15 gallon smart pots to transplant into with around 12 gallons of soil, and after transplant I vegged 2 weeks, then flowered, so far with no pH issues (7 weeks in)

All the time and money you put into the grow will be useless if you don't consider each and every thing, soil type, temperature, water given, light, and heat control. Master those and your results will be awesome~! Nutrient lines can be used in soil as long as you gradually start using them when the timings right, never follow the label , instead check someones grow log who used the same and go off of what they did or something, The type of nutrients shouldn't matter too much unless planning to reuse your soil. If you're really interested in that check out the ROLS and no till page using the search button
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Nizza has that just about nailed this one shut!

The only thing I would add is to get the humidity levels up to 50% minimum for seedlings! 70% is prime for babies.

Your drying them out to fast as they can't transpire enough to keep healthy at those low RH levels!
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Hmmm, interesting input. I will transplant her tonight as soon as I can.
And as far as lights and temps go. It's NOT too hot. The temps fluctuate, but i'm not dealing with heat issues. The ventilation keeps it plenty cool in there.
The RH I will def work on fixing as well.

I want to thank you all for your input.
And soil temps aren't really a big issue either though... In fact, I used to keep frozen bottles in the box to help with temps (before the ventilation system was upgraded)
And they would touch the pot, so if anything, the soil WAS very cold, and now it's at a normal temperature.

Does any of this info affect your answers? (Nizza especially, since he gave the most in-depth and comprehensive answer?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Hmm,,,,reread everything again.
Control of RH is very important.
You may need to water more often. The water by weight thing, I find not as accurate as sticking in my finger one knuckle deep. Feel dry = WATER. Feel damp = not yet.
Smart pots dry out faster then solid pots. They have a tendency to dry out to much. I find that if you water to the point they flow through and then give them time to suck up the water you get a better more complete watering. You might want to try to let them sit in any excess for 3 - 5 min and then dump the catch tray.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Typically, I do the same with my finger as well, using weight as a secondary method.
But, its agreed that I need to transplant, and fix the humidity?

Cause the humidity hasn't changed much throughout the grow and the problem more or less just cropped up... and I'm hoping the pH of the soil has been fixed after flushing it out. Tonight will tell a lot. She's asleep right now while I'm working, but... she STARTED to look a little more heathy in the middle, with some new growth. But I'll know if it was my imagination, or if she legitimately is getting better when I get home.

Any more advice (anyone who has seen or dealt with this before) is well appreciated.
But primarily, does anyone suggest I till transplant, considering that all I have is miracle grow potting mix? Or should I just focus on fixing the current soils pH?
 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
You can flush the heck out of it all you want but with no buffers left in that soil as soon as it starts to dry out your ph will swing right back. Transplant and get as much of the old soil off s you can.
 

dajosh42069

Well-Known Member
Thanks.
Her new growth is looking better, it's not as yellowish since the flush. And I transplanted her into some Miracle Grow Potting Mix. I wish i'd had some extra perlite... but I guess what's in there will have to do.
Thank you all for all of your help and advice! I'm very grateful.
 
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