Diatom hell! (Not cyanobacteria)

So I need some input from y’all.

Here’s my setup
2 - 5gal DWC buckets. (Lowe’s blues then switched to blacks)
Growstones as the medium.
Active aqua 8l air pump running drip rings (pre roots in the water) switched to only air stones (when roots dropped into the water)
Blue dream from seed in rockwool plugs.
NPK industries RAW all in one grow nutes.
Cytoplus seaweed/humic with micronutes.
Super thrive.
Calmag.
600w LED light.
Temp controlled room around 75° with RH at about 65.
Res temps about 68°


The issue I’m having:

So, I just started a small grow and have had nothing but problems with my girls.

First off, before the roots even dropped into the water I was getting bad algae blooms in my res. Black snot gooping up my air stone, the walls of the bucket and just big ol pieses of black nasties that would just float around. My ph would rise daily from 5.8 to about 6.7 and my ppms we’re slowly rising.....
After some research I found out that the most likely culprit was Cyanobacteria and that my blue Lowe’s buckets could be letting light into the res allowing the bloom. So I switched out my buckets, bleached everything, ran a H202 drip to help sterilize my girls and started out with fresh RO water in new black buckets. For a while, the issue seemed to clear up.... well after a few weeks of slow recovery, the girls started picking up their pace and started sending down some roots!

Success! Or so I thought.....

Well, after about a week of them doing their thing, I went to change my res water and saw the most saddening thing. All my beautiful roots are covered with this black gunk! Affected roots are weak and break off easily when trying to clean and unaffected roots seem healthy and strong. Almost every root just covered with this grainy/goopy like black stuff.... oh no! I thought I beat that! So back online to see what to do.... my ph was still climbing (now to 6.3 in 24hr) and the ppms we’re still climbing a little).... what to do?!

well, I came across the Heisenberg tea recipe and was super excited to give it a try. After reading about 100 pages on that thread I figured that was probably the best bet to try and cure this problem. (Still thinking cynobacteria) so I rounded up some great white, EWC, and some pondzyme and made a batch of tea.

The tea brewed just like everyone said, smelled like earth and had foam by 48hr.

So I pulled my girls out, sprayed em down with a sprayer to remove 99% of the black gunk, bleached everything (but the girls) and inoculated my res’s and root crown and made a batch of fresh nutes to about 300ppm and three cups of H Tea.
I set everything up as others had done and hoped for the best! Well, I came back the next day to find that black gunk on all my roots! Almost worse than before! But no gunk on the buckets, air stones or in the water (other than what sloughed off during inspection)
FFS!!! I swore I had it on the run!

So I repeated what I did above and even brewed a fresh batch of tea just in case I did something wrong....same tea, same smell, same results after the cleaning and inoculating.

Same root results.....

So, I went back, reread a bunch and decided to drop the pondzyme seeing as that can be a real cynobacteria feeder and just made a tea out of the great white and EWC.

So again I sanitize everything except this time I went full on war with my room and girls.

This time though, after the cleaning, I ran just PH’ed RO water, and H202 for 24hr with my girls. (They were Not happy about that) I hooked up my drip rings and let them drip for a full 24hr and then pulled everything apart, cleaned with bleach (the equip not the girls) and decided I’ll run just water and tea for a day for maximum inoculation. So I ran my buckets for 24hr on just tea and to my dismay, the next day that black gunk is back!!! I added another cup or so of tea to each bucket and another 24hr and it’s only worse!

Anything that has the black gunk will not grow new roots but any part that isn’t gunked still show slight signs of growth. Although many said there may be an aftergrowth with tea use, I don’t think this is that growth.... no new roots are coming out of the gunk, only unaffected roots show any sign of growing.... the last photo I uploaded you can see new root growth above the affected roots but everything below is gunked to hell.

So I started to get a little more sciency and started looking up the differences between algae’s, bacteria’s and the likes. After many may hours of reading, I started to suspect that I do no have a bacteria problem but a diatom problem. This is where I’m at a loss....

It seems this stuff keeps coming back no matter what I’ve done and I’m starting to think I need to hard reset and start a new... 2 months in and I’m gonna either give in to this gunk or die fighting it!

Well, after some more research and a little science, I decided to look at this goop under a microscope... I’ll be damned.... it looks like a bunch of little diamonds under the scope.... so I’m guessing it’s probably a diatom problem. Seeing as it comes back again and again, with teas, h202, and bleach, I do not know what to do anymore! Seems diatoms feed on sicate and phosphorus and do not need light to survive.

Seeing as I removed my nutes and it still came back, my only guess is that the grow stones (puffed glass) are feeding these buggers and unless I switch media, I’m gonna be plagued by this.... I haven’t seen my exact problem on any grow forum but it seems it’s common in aquariums but the fixes are not conducive to hydroponics.... their fixes don’t seem compatible with growing plants....

So, after all the above, my question is:

Has anyone had this and defeated it? What did it take?

And

Should I try and replant my girls in a different medium? They surely will hate it since I’d have to cut roots to get em out....

I’d like to stay using DWC so I’m really trying to figure out a solution to this that doesn’t involve going to a different grow style like drain to waste or soil. I’ve already spent a lot to set this up, the last thing I wanna tell my wife is I need to spend even more to switch grow styles. Besides I like the daily checks and such. Hydro is fun for me when I’m not fighting off the Black Plague...

Thanks in advance to everyone! Y’all are awesome!

Cyano can be hit with antibiotics... that's what many in the aquarium business do.

ANC said:

Cyano can be hit with antibiotics... that's what many in the aquarium business do.

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It’s not Cyanobacteria though just like the title said..... that’s the issue.

Diatoms = Eurakyotes
Cyano. = Cyanobacteria

Are you running a water cooler to maintain your bucket reservoir temps? If not, how are you managing this parameter?

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you're feeding synthetics (RAW) on one side of the spectrum and Organics (EWC Tea) on the other end? I'm guessing they both require completely different pH treatments. Are you combining the two (Synthetic and Organics)?

CannaCountry said:

Are you running a water cooler to maintain your bucket reservoir temps? If not, how are you managing this parameter?

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you're feeding synthetics (RAW) on one side of the spectrum and Organics (EWC Tea) on the other end? I'm guessing they both require completely different pH treatments. Are you combining the two (Synthetic and Organics)?

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I do not run a cooler because my closet is in the cool side of my house. The room runs cold even with my LED’s so I have a heater in there to maintain room temp. Since the buckets are on the floor, they have stayed around 68ish° Once I saw it reach around 71° but it settled down to 68-69.

I chose RAW because I’ve heard good things about their nutes and had a friend who ran it in his DWC with great results. (Although now I suspect that may be the initial reason I have this problem now..)
I do like the ease of powder nutes and was really hoping that this “all in one” nute mix would work out decently. Now though, I’m not sure.

The only reason I was mixing synth and organic was because of the slime issue. First it seemed I had cyano’s but then after the original clear up I now have a different black gunk on my girls roots.
I wouldn’t normally try and mix em but I found hiesnburgs thread and thought that may be the cure. (And might still be, I just have to figure out what this stuff is).

Just did a res change last night and again the roots were just COVERED in this stuff. It’s not snotty and is only on the roots. The bucket was clean inside, nothing on the air stone, lines, or bucket walls.... but those roots.... I sprayed em down real good with a hand sprayer and my god the amount of dead roots coming off my girls... after spraying them clean, I checked and the roots aren’t mushy, they don’t smell (nor the buckets) but are Root rot brown and are definitely not happy.

I have included some of the before and after photos of the roots. first the before clean, then what was in the buckets and finally what the roots look like today... (after the photo of the res with broken floating roots in em). I’ve ran nothing but RO water and EWC tea the last 3 days to try and wipe out the gunk to no avail.

I’m at the point where I’ve ordered new nutes (kelp4less hydro grow) new bennies (mycrogrow) new EWC (wiggle worm) and new grow medium (hydroballs) because I can’t figure out what’s going on and so I’m ready to switch everything out and try something different. My last grow was huge compared to this and I never had this issue before!

I figure if I change one thing at a time, maybe I can find out what’s causing this goop. I’m just not looking forward to cutting out my girls from the growstones I’m using to replace with expanded clay.... I know that’s gonna hurt both them and me. I already have a decent root mass under the net so it’s either destroy the roots or destroy the netpot and order more.

Lastly, even after all my studying I’m still a little unsure what is and is not considered organic in DWC.

I understand true organic (like bone meal, blood meal, guano, etc) is a big no no in hydro, but RAW claims it’s organically derived, so does that mean that too is a no no?
I’ve read a bunch on this and can’t seem to find clarification if organically derived nutes are bad for DWC.
I see threads saying no orgaincs in DWC but then talk about using kelp, humic, fulvic, etc in the res. Aren’t those organic? Botanicare PBP is organically derived and I don’t see anyone saying that’s an issue. So where is the line in DWC? I think I’ve read myself into confusion!

Anyways, I’m just about ready to say F this and start over but I’ve put so much time already into these girls, I am a stubborn MoFo and really want to beat this instead of admit defeat. I’m hoping this awesome collective mind here will have some good advice.

Edit: I looks like I already included some of these photos in my original post. Sorry bout that! Still, you can see how this stuff comes right back after a lot of work!

One thing is for certain; it sounds like you're doing your due diligence in terms of trying to solve your issue. Kudos to you. I unfortunately don't have any new found wisdom to drop on you. My first thoughts were temperature related or maybe your EWC tea is causing the black residue just because EWC's are black, but it's apparent your roots are rotting from something else. Maybe you could post this question in the DWC section and see if those who employ this method have anything good to say. My inclination would be to start over, but...damn who wants to give up? Good luck friend.

I thought this thread was about diamaticus earth so I never looked in here. If you want nice white roots you should be using Dynagro. If you put slop in your rez then it should be normal to have sloppy slimy roots. I have never really heard of RAW nutes. I use blowes blue buckets with no issues and my buckets range from 68-74 degrees and never have root rot. The only time I start to get root rot is if an air stone gets clogged. I usually catch it early because I can smell it.

70's natureboy said:

I thought this thread was about diamaticus earth so I never looked in here. If you want nice white roots you should be using Dynagro. If you put slop in your rez then it should be normal to have sloppy slimy roots. I have never really heard of RAW nutes. I use blowes blue buckets with no issues and my buckets range from 68-74 degrees and never have root rot. The only time I start to get root rot is if an air stone gets clogged. I usually catch it early because I can smell it.

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Well I dont know where I implied I put slop in my res, but I wasn’t asking if people are slime free....

I have an issue and am looking for some advice as to what it can be.

I don't run dwc, but I do run hydro. I'm personally a fan of a sterile res. There is a great thread on this site about it. I have been using the pool shock method to add very small amounts of chlorine to my Rez to keep things nice and clean for about 4-5 years and it works great.

Have you tried actually washing out the existing medium in the basket with a sanitizer solution? These diatoms could be hiding out in there and blooming back into your roots.

Thundercat said:

I don't run dwc, but I do run hydro. I'm personally a fan of a sterile res. There is a great thread on this site about it. I have been using the pool shock method to add very small amounts of chlorine to my Rez to keep things nice and clean for about 4-5 years and it works great.

Have you tried actually washing out the existing medium in the basket with a sanitizer solution? These diatoms could be hiding out in there and blooming back into your roots.

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I haven’t looked into the pool shock route yet (seen it, just haven’t spent the time reading up on it) I was hoping to find out what this is and what’s causing it.

I did run h202 (35% @ 8ml gal) for about 24hr after washing down the net pots with a sink sprayer.

I’m thinking the same thing as you on the medium harboring these bastards. Since diatoms feed on silicon and phosphorus, they are having a grand ol time living in those pumice silicon houses! Also I see that RAW has 17% silicon derived from diomite.... so no help there....

My plan is to switch out everything. I have some expanded clay sitting in ph’ed water, new nutes on the way (kelp4less hydro grow), mycos from fungi.com, new EWC, and a few other things.

I’d only mix up the EWC tea if I need to use it for help with root rot....

At first that’s what I thought I had but the res smells clean, the roots smell fine (though not healthy), and overall the res conditions do not make me believe it’s Pythium or cynos.

I’m hoping by going a more sterile route with my nutes and such I won’t have to fight this going forward. Bummer though because I spent a lot of time researching everything I’ve put into this setup and was super confident in the system I built.

Shows me for trying some new stuff.

Well, going forward, I’d like to beat this stuff but I’m not out of the woods yet!

It’s not gonna be fun cutting back roots and digging these girls up from jagged glass pumice... idk who’s gonna be more hurt by it, then or me!

I’m still hoping someone has some knowledge on what’s going on here but I’ll keep posting what changes I’ve done and if they help.... maybe my suffering my help someone someday....

Did you pour the h2o2 solution over the roots and medium in the basket? That is the only way you'll kill the stuff in there. I would definitely try that before fucking with the roots or tryin to change mediums mid grow.

Look up the pool shock and do that seriously.

Also stop putting the EWC and teas and all the other organic stuff in. Sterile res means no mycos or bennies. You want the plant to be the only thing alive in your room.

Pick one or the other. Sterile or bennies.

Personally I don't like sterile. It's been ages since I grew dwc. I always did like my aquariums. Let beneficial bacteria setup and not worry.

If you had to it wouldn't be hard to switch to soil or Coco.

I don't normally care one way I the other for people. I'm only pushing sterile because he has tried the bennies route already.

Thundercat said:

Did you pour the h2o2 solution over the roots and medium in the basket? That is the only way you'll kill the stuff in there. I would definitely try that before fucking with the roots or tryin to change mediums mid grow.

Look up the pool shock and do that seriously.

Also stop putting the EWC and teas and all the other organic stuff in. Sterile res means no mycos or bennies. You want the plant to be the only thing alive in your room.

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I ran the H202 on drip rings and used a spray bottle as well to get to what I could. Those drip rings ran 24hr.

Also, I was only using bennies and stuff to combat the original bloom I encountered. (Other than what’s in the raw grow nutes) and it helped with that, but then I got another type of gunk problem now.

you are doubling up on your additives. raw already contains humics and you are adding more with the cytoplus. the raw has molasses so you need to go the bennie route which you are then killing with the peroxide.

i'd pick up some different nutes that are salt based like GH flora series.

use your peroxide and just those nutes and nothing else and i bet your problems go away.

Honestly my vote is still a pool shock solution mixed into ph'd water and drench all the medium and roots. I tried h2o2 the time I had a real problem and it didn't touch it which is what led me to shock. I also do use salt based nutes too. I don't know anything about raw.

Then refill the res with just regular nutrients and a dose of fresh shock solution.

I use about 1 tsp of pool shock mixed into a gallon of water. Take that solution and mix 1 ounce / gallon in your res or in this case to drench with as well.

I usually mix up a gallon and split it between my 2 reservoirs ever 4-5 days just to keep things clean.

Thundercat said:

I don't know anything about raw.

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i looked them up; one ingredient is cane molasses.

his nute recipe is better suited for making rum, not growing weed.

and i loved the hth method too. very simple and effective.

RAW GROW is a tested blend of all 12 RAW Soluble plant nutrients, essential elements and supplements. This blend has been proven to be an optimal all-in-one base “Grow” horticultural fertilizer. RAW GROW is used through out the entire vegetative stage. Derived from: Plant protein hydrolysate, mono potassium phosphate, potassium sulfate, cane molasses, sodium borate, copper sulfate, iron DTPA, magnesium sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate and azomite. Also contains non-plant food ingredients: Humic acids derived from leonardite and peat, kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), silicon dioxide derived from diatomite and yucca extract

rkymtnman said:

you are doubling up on your additives. raw already contains humics and you are adding more with the cytoplus. the raw has molasses so you need to go the bennie route which you are then killing with the peroxide.

i'd pick up some different nutes that are salt based like GH flora series.

use your peroxide and just those nutes and nothing else and i bet your problems go away.

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Well, originally I was hoping to go the Bennie route. I like the idea of having all the extra life helping the plants and wanted to give it a shot.

With the first slime issue I had, I treated with tea to try and keep my system happy and not go sterile (which I couldn’t do anyways with raw). Now that this second different slime has hit, I’m going to transition to kelp4less hydro grow nutes (salts not their all in one that has all the other bennies) I’ll only add EWC tea to the mix if I get hit with cyanos again.

I’ll look up the pool shock route as well and see what I’ll run.
I know the whole debacle about adding harsh chems to the res and the implications on the plant. Idk if I like the sound of adding pool shock to something I’m consuming. Even if the evedince contradicts it, just the feeling of it to me makes me hesitant. H202 use is what I’d rather try first.

Not saying I’m against the pool shock, just gonna look at all my options before I resort to “bleach” or other chems like trichloro s triazinetrione.

rkymtnman said:

RAW GROW is a tested blend of all 12 RAW Soluble plant nutrients, essential elements and supplements. This blend has been proven to be an optimal all-in-one base “Grow” horticultural fertilizer. RAW GROW is used through out the entire vegetative stage. Derived from: Plant protein hydrolysate, mono potassium phosphate, potassium sulfate, cane molasses, sodium borate, copper sulfate, iron DTPA, magnesium sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate and azomite. Also contains non-plant food ingredients: Humic acids derived from leonardite and peat, kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), silicon dioxide derived from diatomite and yucca extract

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I went with RAW because I had a friend do a kick ass DWC grow with it and from all the research I’ve done and reading I’ve done this had basically everything I’ve seen others run with a bunch of supplements. So I decided to try it out for my self.
Originally I did have cyano because of light leaks and lack of competing microbes but after combating that with tea from the Heisenberg thread, I did defeat that. But shortly after all that the roots hit water and started with the other slime issue.

With that said, I’ve sterilized everything and retreated with tea and still have said issue. So it’s time to not try that and run different nutes and such.

I’ll switch out my medium, nutes, and leave out the tea for now and run h202 in normal amounts and see what’s up. These sprouted from seeds in November, they def shouldn’t be like this...

I’m guessing in a “sterile” res, there is no need for kelps, humics, or fulvics? If so, I’ll have to drop the cytoplus and find a source of micro nutes more suited for sterile hydro.