Dick's Stopped Being Dicks..

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Excessive_Toker said:
The gun control debate intensifies when a mass shooting occurs. I want to know what specific laws can be enacted, in your opinion, to prevent these tragedies. Let's be honest here. 30 homicides per 1,000,000 aren't bad at all. We have much bigger problems when you put everything into perspective.
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with regard to the question "Is this a large number of deaths?" No, it's not.

Recall however, the trauma inflicted by that mass shooting in Fla or the ones recently in Texas or Las Vegas. The entire community was traumatized. At Parkland, the entire student body is now dealing with the horror of that day, many having seen friends gunned down in front of them. So, the number might seem small but the effect of the crime was felt by many. It was a heinous crime. Don't minimize gun violence by saying "just 30". It's simply not the same as "he died due to kidney failure" or "natural causes".

All I'm asking for is a reduction in gun homicide rate to that of Canada or perhaps Australia. In that light, 25 to 28 people/million murdered by gun in 2012 would still be alive to this day. These are preventable deaths, something like 8,000 people in all. (note: pop of US was 314 M in 2012) You say 9,400 people dead is not bad? Again, look at how the Parkland shootings (17 dead) affected the people of Parkland. I'd reconsider that statement if I were you.

Regarding perspective, nobody says we should not work on larger problems. It's not an "either-or" issue.

Regarding what laws to enact, I really like the system put in place by Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

It's comprehensive, takes a systems level approach and ensures anybody with a good reason to own guns can have them if they meet reasonable proficiency standards and can pass a reasonable background check. There is a lot of detail in the wikipedia page.
 
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Excessive_Toker

Excessive_Toker

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
with regard to the question "Is this a large number of deaths?" No, it's not.

Recall however, the trauma inflicted by that mass shooting in Fla or the ones recently in Texas or Las Vegas. The entire community was traumatized. At Parkland, the entire student body is now dealing with the horror of that day, many having seen friends gunned down in front of them. So, the number might seem small but the effect of the crime was felt by many. It was a heinous crime. Don't minimize gun violence by saying "just 30". It's simply not the same as "he died due to kidney failure" or "natural causes".

All I'm asking for is a reduction in gun homicide rate to that of Canada or perhaps Australia. In that light, 25 to 28 people murdered by gun in 2012 would still be alive to this day. These are preventable deaths. You say not bad? Again, look at how the Parkland shootings affected the people of Parkland. I'd reconsider that statement if I were you.

Regarding perspective, nobody says we should not work on larger problems. It's not an "either-or" issue.

Regarding what laws to enact, I really like the system put in place by Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Canada

It's comprehensive, takes a systems level approach and ensures anybody with a good reason to own guns can have them if they meet reasonable proficiency standards and can pass a reasonable background check. There is a lot of detail in the wikipedia page.
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Nothing wrong with enacting gun laws equivalent to Canada. However, I honestly do not think it will ever reduce the mass shootings that we have been accustomed to in the U.S. I respect your opinion and the civility of which you have conveyed your message.
 
Sir Napsalot

Sir Napsalot

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Regarding what laws to enact, I really like the system put in place by Canada.
It's comprehensive, takes a systems level approach and ensures anybody with a good reason to own guns can have them if they meet reasonable proficiency standards and can pass a reasonable background check.
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Is 'because I want one' a good reason?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Excessive_Toker said:
Nothing wrong with enacting gun laws equivalent to Canada. However, I honestly do not think it will ever reduce the mass shootings that we have been accustomed to in the U.S. I respect your opinion and the civility of which you have conveyed your message.
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Just think about the difference between your belief and the demonstrated low rates found in other countries with developed economies. Do you think belief >>> facts? Think too about how different it would be in this country if kids didn't have to go through a red alert training. This replicated in 8000 schools nationwide and millions of kids. I think it's disgusting that anybody would say they don't give a fuck.
 
Excessive_Toker

Excessive_Toker

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Just think about the difference between your belief and the demonstrated low rates found in other countries with developed economies. Do you think belief >>> facts? Think too about how different it would be in this country if kids didn't have to go through a red alert training. This replicated in 8000 schools nationwide and millions of kids. I think it's disgusting that anybody would say they don't give a fuck.
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I asked you to quote me. Why haven't you?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sir Napsalot said:
Is 'because I want one' a good reason?
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From what I read, "because I want one" is good enough. There are some hoops to jump through regardless of the reason and some restrictions or bans. Handguns are restricted in Canada so there are a lot more hoops to jump through for them but it's still possible to own one if they are willing to follow the rules. A person who wants a hunting rifle has it relatively easy. No large clips, however.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Just think about the difference between your belief and the demonstrated low rates found in other countries with developed economies. Do you think belief >>> facts? Think too about how different it would be in this country if kids didn't have to go through a red alert training. This replicated in 8000 schools nationwide and millions of kids. I think it's disgusting that anybody would say they don't give a fuck.
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No one but you said anyone didn’t give a fuck.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Excessive_Toker said:
I asked you to quote me. Why haven't you?
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Where in that post did I say you said that? I think the NRA practically says that with each defense of the gun industry, which disgusts me. Anybody who outright demands gun laws stay the same in the US is practically saying that, which disgusts me.

I checked what you don't give a fuck about and that was unlimited detainment of illegal immigrants. We should take that topic up here if you want to refute that: https://www.rollitup.org/t/supreme-court-rules-immigrants-can-be-detained-indefinitely.959794/#post-14102755
 
Excessive_Toker

Excessive_Toker

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
google it.

The numbers move around a little depending on the year. It isn't a sample. The US data came from FBI registry of crime in the US as of 2012. The data includes all crimes in that year that ended in a gun homicide. A UN commission on crime aggregated data from each country to compare rates in each country. The US is by far an outlier compared to other similar nations.

You said you don't give a fuck. I can't understand that.
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You said it here. Care to explain this?
 
Excessive_Toker

Excessive_Toker

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Where in that post did I say you said that? I think the NRA practically says that with each defense of the gun industry, which disgusts me. Anybody who outright demands gun laws stay the same in the US is practically saying that, which disgusts me.

I checked what you don't give a fuck about and that was unlimited detainment of illegal immigrants. We should take that topic up here if you want to refute that: https://www.rollitup.org/t/supreme-court-rules-immigrants-can-be-detained-indefinitely.959794/#post-14102755
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Correct, I did post a meme there, implying that I don't give a fuck to hear about immigration debates anymore. Did the Democrats not have total control under Obama and could have tackled this issue? They systematically kick the can down the road, why is that?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Excessive_Toker said:
You said it here. Care to explain this?
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Alright, in that post, I crossed you up with an earlier post about unlimited detention of illegal immigrants. I can't understand that either. But it's true that you didn't say it about homicides. At least not directly. I'll post an edit retracting that
 
Sir Napsalot

Sir Napsalot

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
From what I read, "because I want one" is good enough. There are some hoops to jump through regardless of the reason and some restrictions or bans. Handguns are restricted in Canada so there are a lot more hoops to jump through for them but it's still possible to own one if they are willing to follow the rules.
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What are the rules regarding handguns? Can I keep a loaded revolver in my headboard? Can I drive out to the woods and point-shoot Prestone jugs at 25 feet with my single-action Colt just for the fun of it?
 
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