Did I fuck up already? (Seedlings)

To keep it simple:

5 seedlings

2 seem healthy,


3 are showing the same issue.


What I'm concerned about is the yellowing and lack of growth of the true leaves on these three. All are growing in 100% coir under 100w equiv CFLs to start. I'll admit I may have over saturated the coir just after they popped the surface, but I've been leaving the lights on 24/7 with fan on high to attempt to dry it out faster.
I have not introduced nutes to the coir at all at this point.

Compared to the plant in the first picture, the three problem plants have much smaller true leaves, and they all are yellow or are yellowing. All 5 are starting their second set of true leaves, so I'd think they're progressing on about the same, but with different results.

I've read through the nutrient and watering problem symptoms, but I'd like you all to take a look and let me know what you think before I act on anything that could make it worse.

Are these signs of deficiencies, signs of overwatering, or something else?

Thanks in advance. Any advise helps.

you need to feed them 25% regular dosage of nutes.

Thanks for the quick response. Since I also what to be conscious of overwatering, would you soak the coir with the 1/4 strength or just apply lightly around the seedling, overtime as the coir drys?

If found: Return to CA said:

Thanks for the quick response. Since I also what to be conscious of overwatering, would you soak the coir with the 1/4 strength or just apply lightly around the seedling, overtime as the coir drys?

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Do not feed them any nutes just plain water until they have 3 sets of true leaves....
The Coir looks too dry.. It should be kept moist at this stage...

*Did you wash the Coir thoroughly before use?

jkahndb0 said:

Do not feed them any nutes just plain water until they have 3 sets of true leaves....
The Coir looks too dry.. It should be kept moist at this stage...

Click to expand...

Three sets is what I had in mind, which is why I was concerned about seeing a possible deficiency this early, but I'll wait on nutes.
With that understanding, how moist is too moist? I don't want to inspire or worsen root rot.

Can anyone pin point what the cause of the yellowing/slowed growth is? I'm more than happy to answer questions/provide more detail if it helps the diagnosis.

Thanks.

If you want to help guard against root rot put a little Hydrogen Peroxide in the water next time you water them...
Just dampen it to where the coir is wet but nothing runs off... (while its a seedling)


Did you wash the Coir thoroughly before you used it?

Ooooh and what's your pH mate?... The more details you have the better so damn hard to tell on a seedling, but it doesn't look like they dried out they'd flop over if they did...

jkahndb0 said:

Did you wash the Coir thoroughly before you used it?

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No, I did not. The shop I purchased it from said Botanicare coir was pre-flushed, and that I'd only needed to hydrate it. I did so with pure water, not with nutes as I later read was suggested on the packaging.

jkahndb0 said:

The Coir looks too dry.. It should be kept moist at this stage...

Click to expand...

jkahndb0 said:

If you want to help guard against root rot put a little Hydrogen Peroxide in the water next time you water them... Just dampen it to where the coir is wet but nothing runs off... (while its a seedling)

Click to expand...

The coir has dried on the surface, but is still moist when I stick the tip of a finger in or move a little of the coir around. I'm pretty sure they're nor suffering from dehydration, but not enough oxygen definitely is possible. Would you try the Hydrogen Peroxide solution immediately, or would you wait until the coir has dried a little more?

Mad Hamish said:

Ooooh and what's your pH mate?

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My pH meter should be here today, but thus far it's been tap water, so I'd guess 7 going in. My understanding is activity in the root zone decreases pH slightly, but I don't have any hard numbers yet.

Coir in a cup dries out FAST, I would dampen it whenever it looks dry...
Once it has grown a little bigger and has an established root system you can let it dry out before watering if you wanted...
(but as it dries the residual salts become more concentrated so it is best to not let it dry out completely)

The H2O2 isnt to add oxygen to the roots (it will tho) its to kill bacteria to prevent damping off...

Botanicare CoCo is pre-washed but you should wash it anyway....

Not all tap water is created equal.... Some TW is great, but then there are other cities that have Horrible tap water...
If you want a cheap and reliable way to test the PH these test strips work great...
http://www.amazon.com/Ph-Test-Strips-Dispenser-Intervals/dp/B0007RSD0A/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1375718502&sr=1-2&keywords=ph+test+strip

Or you could get a chinese ph pen for same/cheaper but I would rather use the strips, Much easier for a beginner... (if you have the money get the Pen but you will have to calibrate it every few uses)
http://www.amazon.com/BestDealUSA-PH-009-Meter-Digital-Tester/dp/B0087LOWIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375718552&sr=8-1&keywords=ph+pen

Feed them, now. Take the fan off those little guys. Then keep the coir wet, as wet as you want. You're not going to overwater that shit.

Use tap water, who cares, the coco is going to absorb ALL the calcium from it anyway, so use at LEAST 5ml/gallon of calmag for the first two weeks in ALL COCO GROWS REGARDLESS because the plant's not going to see almost any of it.

Gl. They look awful dry, too. Don't let them get that dry. Oh and ph to 5.8.

36OhBuds said:

Feed them, now. Take the fan off those little guys. Then keep the coir wet, as wet as you want. You're not going to overwater that shit.

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REALLY? Bullshit. Sorry but that is a load of balls. Overwatering: Noob mistake no1.

Your info on Coco is a bit off and your post is not giving good recommendations bro. I'm sorry but I have to tell you that. It is VERY easy to over-water a cup with seedlings. That's unmixed coco PYTH right there. If it was like 50 percent croutons then yeah it would be HARDER to overwater. No perlite, no croutons, no leca added to the mix, nothing to help the pyth drain fast. It can stay soggy for a long time. A LOOOONG time. The surface dries fast enough sure but it stays wet from about 3 mm down.

I can guarantee you we are looking at over-watering and pH all at once.

Tap water is not pH 7. And if it IS then you've got BIG trouble with these babies. MINIMUM 5.5, MAXIMUM 6.5 and those are the extremes for hydroponics. Outside that you have problems.

jkahndb0 is spot on, though. Some good advice there. When he talks about 'washing' the coco, he means at the right pH, and some people add a big whop of Cal/Mag to the first wash so the coco is nicely buffered too. Washing is a bit of a must no matter what the quality of your coco.

Mad Hamish said:

Ooooh and what's your pH mate?... The more details you have the better so damn hard to tell on a seedling, but it doesn't look like they dried out they'd flop over if they did...

Click to expand...

My pH pen arrived last evening. Turns out the local water I've been using thus far is around 8.2 . I gave them some hydrogen peroxide water at the suggestion of jkahndb0 before it arrived, then the same amount of water with the suggested week 1 (half strength) nutes, since the coir had never seen nutes before. The water with the nutes went in at 5.5 and the RO came out at 6.2, so I poured off the RO to make sure the coir didn't try to reabsorb it and oversaturate the root zone, and left it overnight.

I'm happy to report that there are already signs of reinvigorated growth. The areas on the first trues that were still green have swollen to twice the area they were last night, and the second set of trues have grown much bigger.

BTW: @Mad Hamish. Thank you for begin conscious of overwatering. That's what I thought my problem was initially. They're in 3 gallon grow bags so that I won't have to transplant, so it took a far amount of water to even see RO. Most of the H2O2 water was poured near the plants, and the nute water around the perimeter to allow the previously nute-less coir to absorb some instead of flooding the current, young root zone with nutes.

Thank you all so much for your insight and suggestions!

Hamish knows his shit. I'd listen to him.

GandalfdaGreen said:

Hamish knows his shit. I'd listen to him.

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Awwwww that's the biggest compliment I ever got far as growing goes! If you want to see the best looking plants EVER come have a read on Gandalf's thread:https://www.rollitup.org/organics/676040-total-noob-using-teas-i.html

It truly is a perfect thread. Tons of little tweaks, and many very common issues addressed and solved super efficiently. I have been fully converted to FULL organic by him and Myco! Mu gurus! Seriously, these guys are reefer muses, if you leave that thread without feeling inspired, you don't like reefer (kidding, but not).

And you can't ask for a kinder and more helpful fella around either.

Mad Hamish said:

REALLY? Bullshit. Sorry but that is a load of balls. Overwatering: Noob mistake no1.

Your info on Coco is a bit off and your post is not giving good recommendations bro. I'm sorry but I have to tell you that. It is VERY easy to over-water a cup with seedlings. That's unmixed coco PYTH right there. If it was like 50 percent croutons then yeah it would be HARDER to overwater. No perlite, no croutons, no leca added to the mix, nothing to help the pyth drain fast. It can stay soggy for a long time. A LOOOONG time. The surface dries fast enough sure but it stays wet from about 3 mm down.

I can guarantee you we are looking at over-watering and pH all at once.

Tap water is not pH 7. And if it IS then you've got BIG trouble with these babies. MINIMUM 5.5, MAXIMUM 6.5 and those are the extremes for hydroponics. Outside that you have problems.

jkahndb0 is spot on, though. Some good advice there. When he talks about 'washing' the coco, he means at the right pH, and some people add a big whop of Cal/Mag to the first wash so the coco is nicely buffered too. Washing is a bit of a must no matter what the quality of your coco.

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This too ffs. Way to speak it Hamish.

-spek

Great advice and link Hamish!!,,Another RIU member you can gain a wealth of knowledge from is riddleme, he's got about 14-15 threads and most are at least 200 pages

Yeah, all I have to say is listen to the person who has more than 15 posts here on RIU...

HankDank said:

Yeah, all I have to say is listen to the person who has more than 15 posts here on RIU...

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I want your avatar printed on a t-shirt! It's really, really RAD bro! I'd actually have that as my new tattoo also, he'll live so happily on my right calf muahahahahaha.