Did I overheat my QB? Broken QB

dendroaspis

Active Member
Weve seen "batches" of dodgy quality occasionally even from kb/meijiu on some. Warranty given has been erratic: some got new gear or money back some got nothing for litterally the same problems. Personally i dont feel like the china boards should not be run like hlg boards: they are cheap enough to run them arround 60w per board, especially since this approach allows you to use alu sheet for dissipation, which lowers the ali prices and shipping.
Also remember: a broken diode only means about 0.3% increase in wattage per diode. Get warranty if you can, if not you can still go on using the boards but be carefull with the wattage.
Bro, you’re a blessing. My gut said to turn them down at my friends place. Which I’ve done already. I’ll do the same with the one at my place until I have a replacement.

I have to say, the newest qb I’ve gotten, looks a lot different from the previous ones in a good way. We shall see..
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
your experiences is quite similar to my experience with the kb 288 3000K 301lmb boards.
i have/had 12 of these from 2 different batches.
like yours, driven low some diodes are out, with higher current some start to work again (i posted picutres longer ago).
i needed just a few months runtime to cuse this.
have to say that i had my boards always below 50W, between 36 and 46W, cool to the touch.
i suspected i caused some mechancial stress and this was the cause, but hearing your exprience and seeing them mounted on a heatsink i doubt that. now
 

dendroaspis

Active Member
your experiences is quite similar to my experience with the kb 288 3000K 301lmb boards.
i have/had 12 of these from 2 different batches.
like yours, driven low some diodes are out, with higher current some start to work again (i posted picutres longer ago).
i needed just a few months runtime to cuse this.
have to say that i had my boards always below 50W, between 36 and 46W, cool to the touch.
i suspected i caused some mechancial stress and this was the cause, but hearing your exprience and seeing them mounted on a heatsink i doubt that. now
My heatsinks get around 60 celcius without active cooling.
with a fan directed towards them they are around 30
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
temps where not my problem, a good 30c max, i also just used a ir heatgun to test them on their back at that time (quite a bit away from the die temp, still, it was cold).
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
oh, i repaired some boards also in the oven.
some diodes started to work again after a reflow soldering, some didnt and i replaced them with lm301b i bought at digikey.
so the solder joints are one weak part, but that doesnt explain all.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
My heatsinks get around 60 celcius without active cooling.
with a fan directed towards them they are around 30
You wanna keep your diodes junction temps under 50C for them to last and not lose intensity. Under 50C they last for years.
oh, i repaired some boards also in the oven.
some diodes started to work again after a reflow soldering, some didnt and i replaced them with lm301b i bought at digikey.
so the solder joints are one weak part, but that doesnt explain all.
You beat me to the point :)
 

dendroaspis

Active Member
You wanna keep your diodes junction temps under 50C for them to last and not lose intensity. Under 50C they last for years.

You beat me to the point :)
Yeah, when I noticed they ran hot, i added a fan. That made such a difference.

So you guys are saying by putting an qb in the oven its can repair some of the broken solder connections?
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
its doable to repair in the oven.
but its not easy.
you need to hit a quite precise temp, which is hard to do.
i had one test board, which is quite brown now.
"reflow" is the term, i am sure a youtube brings a lot explanrtions, if you throw them away anyway, why not try.
if you can get some HLG V1 for a good price its maybe the more hasle free option.
 

Barristan Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
Cobkits might be the only place to pick up some v1s if he has any left. HLG will not be making them any more.
Doesn't look like they are selling v2 either since the diablo boards got introduced.
The last time I looked Cobkits is down to 27 QB 288 V1 in 5000k color temperature.

HLG did recently restock the QB 132 V1 that they are making with Lumiled Luxeon 2835 HE now, although they are more expensive than the QB 288 V1 boards were recently.

 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
I have a question can anyone identify the problem on this QB? Its a kingbrite, i cut it up into three pieces too fit the tent, but upon inspecting it I noticed some weird markings next to some LED’s. Did they overheat? They have been running for almost a year.
View attachment 4532506
View attachment 4532509
View attachment 4532512
What you've got there, I suspect, is a case of thermal ruanaway from mismatched voltage bins on the boards. What happens is the voltage requirements of some of the LEDs in one or more strings (which are wired in series) are lower than the others, and so they start to pull a higher current. As they pull more current, they heat up and so the voltage requirements fall and they start to draw even more current. Eventually some of the LEDs fail in the closed circuit position and so the voltage requirements of that string fall again and draws even more current – that's why it's called "runaway", as it's a self-perpetuating cycle. And that's why you see the strings with the failed LEDs shining brighter than the others.

To keep prices down, I suspect the Chinese knock-off board manufacturers are not ordering matched votlage bins for their boards and so the voltage requirements of individual LEDs could vary by as much as 0.3V, which is enough to cause what you're seeing. These board don't run ballast resistors to even out the current, but rather rely on the high number of diodes in each string to balance out the voltage of each string.

We don't use ballast resistors in our boards, either, but we match our voltage bins to 0.1V for the entire run of boards – and we pay a premium for it, too. There will still be very slight variances in voltage requirements for each string, but it is not enough to cause thermal runaway like your boards.

Sorry to hear. I hope Kingbrite comes to the party for you. I'm sure they know what the problem is, but don't expect them to admit it ;)
 
Last edited:

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
What you've got there, I suspect, is a case of thermal ruanaway from mismatched voltage bins on the boards. What happens is the voltage requirements of some of the LEDs in one or more strings (which are wired in series) are lower than the others, and so they start to pull a higher current. As they pull more current, they heat up and so the voltage requirements fall and they start to draw even more current. Eventually some of the LEDs fail in the closed circuit position and so the voltage requirements of that string fall again and draws even more current – that's why it's called "runaway", as it's a self-perpetuating cycle. And that's why you see the strings with the failed LEDs shining brighter than the others.

To keep prices down, I suspect the Chinese knock-off board manufacturers are not ordering matched votlage bins for their boards and so the voltage requirements of individual LEDs could vary by as much as 0.3V, which is enough to cause what you're seeing. These board don't run ballast resistors to even out the current, but rather rely on the high number of diodes in each string to balance out the voltage of each string.

We don't use ballast resistors in our boards, either, but we match our voltage bins to 0.1V for the entire run of boards – and we pay a premium for it, too. There will still be very slight variances in voltage requirements for each string, but it is not enough to cause thermal runaway like your boards.

Sorry to hear. I hope Kingbrite comes to the party for you. I'm sure they know what the problem is, but don't expect them to admit it ;)
I concur. You get what you pay for. Let's hope you get some new boards. But you should also ask them if they voltage bin. Chinese knock-off companies are notorious for claiming "top bin" this and "top bin" that, but it's usually bullshit. Oftentimes they're not even Samsung chips. I can't tell from your photos as they're too small.

You did the right thing wiring in parallel with that driver and the 320 won't overcook those boards if wired right, so it was nothing you did wrong. I agree with GLA – you guys got a bad batch of unmatched Vf bins.
 

dendroaspis

Active Member
Thank you everybody for your insightfull answers. I live in the Netherlands, I saw some HLG sellers with some V2 boards left elsewhere in Europe. I’ll keep updating this thread on how this all evolves.
 

dendroaspis

Active Member
So after some email issues I finally got a hold of KB. Their warranty is only a year for the QB’s since I discovered this 13 months after the order the warranty is void. I’ll quickly have to check when I bkught the other two that show the same problems.
 

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
oh i wasnt aware youre in NL when i recommended the HLG V1, i also wasnt aware theyre not avaiable.
just thought at the price some gurantued quality and beeing a drop in replacement its a good thing and thought youre USA based.
3 GLA boards would do the trick also for sure, but theyre another league.

hard to say what i would do in your case, i skipped the boards and went for strips from digikey afterwards and dont regret it,
leds are working 100% for me now.

You have of course the fixture ready to take some new boards, i used the boards without heatsinks (with very low watts).
DHL Express works to NL as far i know, i organized some facemasks for some dutch friend and he got then quite quick.
3 boards would fit in such a express envelope,if they want to, thats whats working the best this times and consider shipping rates are high atm.
last time i bought 3000K 80cri boards they where 25$ or such.
 
Last edited:

dendroaspis

Active Member
Thanks for tips guys, I’m going to look into getting new boards for sure. Gonna see what my options are and what matches my budget and go from there.
 
Top