DiY LED - Cree CXA3070

SupraSPL said:

Thanks for the math! During the hottest part of summer the ambient temp in the tent will get as high as 26C but most of the year it is 22C.

I am using this heatsink profile in a 6" length. It claims C/W/3": approximately .80. Normally I would only install 50W on this heats for passive cooling or up to 120W with active cooling. But since the AB is so efficient at 900mA I plan on running 64W on the passive heatsinks and see what Tj I end up with.
View attachment 3167344

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No ..
No-No -No ..

Do not thank me for the math!
Better blame me ,instead ..

(I 've noted-declared many times my ignorance about Maths .. )

Look by yourself ...
You have to redo the math ...
The size of the CXA is wrong ...So is the surface area value ,for the TIM thermal resistance equation ...

( I was way stoned when i was doing those calculsations ,if that can stand as an excuse .... )

I'm making a new thread about TIM and CXA...

Cheers ..

has anyone tried these http://trir-pj.com/en/technology/ it looks like someone has finally developed a full spectrum led that comes close to matchin natural sunlight including the broad spectru violet and blue. looks like leds are finally coming of age.

mauricem00 said:

has anyone tried these http://trir-pj.com/en/technology/ it looks like someone has finally developed a full spectrum led that comes close to matchin natural sunlight including the broad spectru violet and blue. looks like leds are finally coming of age.

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Seems interesting ...



http://trir-pj.com/en/product/cob-package-en/

But efficiency suffers a lot ..(InGAN UV / violet leds are not as efficient as InGAN blue ones ,I think ) and a three phosphor mix presents more phosphor conversion-heat -re-excitation losses than
two phosphor mix ( high CRI leds ) and even more than single phosphor (normal 80 / low 70 CRI leds ) ...

Plus that ' flat ' spectral line ,is not that ideal for horticulture ..
Way too much violet/bluw wls ...

stardustsailor said:

Seems interesting ...
View attachment 3167765


http://trir-pj.com/en/product/cob-package-en/

But efficiency suffers a lot ..(InGAN UV / violet leds are not as efficient as InGAN blue ones ,I think ) and a three phosphor mix presents more phosphor conversion-heat -re-excitation losses than
two phosphor mix ( high CRI leds ) and even more than single phosphor (normal 80 / low 70 CRI leds ) ...

Plus that ' flat ' spectral line ,is not that ideal for horticulture ..
Way too much violet/bluw wls ...
View attachment 3167775

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I currently use a mix of fluorescent lights and warm white leds to get a full spectrum light but am looking for a supplier of these to try out. at least the technology is moving in the right direction and I believe that plants do better with full spectrum lights considering all the known pigment that use various parts of the spectrum.these lights will be popular in photography so there is a market to drive their development. test have shown that when chlorophyll A is stimulated to S2 excitation with violet light it actually emits deep red and since all pigment in plants have not been identified the only way to know the best spectrum is trial and error and that seems to vary with different strains. some grow well with just warm white leds while other need more blue and violate and the fact that they grow well with hps which is mostly green and yellow indicate that they use those colors as well even manufacturers can not agree on the best spectrum

Mr Flux put it best, think of high CRI as whites with filters over them. Even worse if the spectrum is lacking in the orange-red range versus a warm white.

For example you could filter out some 610nm red from a CXA3070 3000K and it would improve the CRI, and it would still be more efficient than most high CRI LEDs. But filtering out the red certainly will not get you more or better buds.

We've got some yellowing action going on a little early this run. I suspect it is due to mixing in used and fresh from the bag FFOF. The used was used on plants that were grown from seed until a week or little more into flower (about 5 weeks in my case) and then chopped and put shook the root balls out into 5 gallon buckets and saved it. That and 1/2 gallon grow bags will lead to faster depleting of the nutrients in the container of soil or soil-less mix. Maybe also the more intense light of the COBs is using the available nutes faster or a combo of any of said factors.

Also some yellowing can be seen on the tops where they are a bit too close to the light.

They are looking pretty good other than that though the bud formations are looking very dense and crystal coated already.

Waiting on the damn heatsink bars I ordered from heatsinkUSA and they emailed me yesterday that my order was marked waiting for payment but when they checked they saw I had paid the day of the order with paypal so they apologized and got them out today but wont be here until Monday. I could use the R/B bars in there on the sides where the main buds have grown up past the light output angle of the COBs. I cant move the COBs up any higher in the tent so just going to have to do the best I can for a little bit.

This will not be an issue next run.

Anyway enough rambling.


Day 32 12/12

Blackberry Jones on left and Cheesy Pineapple Haze on the right



Cheesy Pineapple Haze



Blackberry Jones


Other two Blackberry Jones'






All four in the tent

Bueno Time said:

We've got some yellowing action going on a little early this run. I suspect it is due to mixing in used and fresh from the bag FFOF. The used was used on plants that were grown from seed until a week or little more into flower (about 5 weeks in my case) and then chopped and put shook the root balls out into 5 gallon buckets and saved it. That and 1/2 gallon grow bags will lead to faster depleting of the nutrients in the container of soil or soil-less mix. Maybe also the more intense light of the COBs is using the available nutes faster or a combo of any of said factors.

Also some yellowing can be seen on the tops where they are a bit too close to the light.

They are looking pretty good other than that though the bud formations are looking very dense and crystal coated already.

Waiting on the damn heatsink bars I ordered from heatsinkUSA and they emailed me yesterday that my order was marked waiting for payment but when they checked they saw I had paid the day of the order with paypal so they apologized and got them out today but wont be here until Sat or Mon I could use the R/B bars in there on the sides where the main buds have grown up past the light output angle of the COBs. I cant move the COBs up any higher in the tent so just going to have to do the best I can for a little bit.

This will not be an issue next run.

Anyway enough rambling.


Day 32 12/12

Blackberry Jones on left and Cheesy Pineapple Haze on the right

Cheesy Pineapple Haze

Blackberry Jones

Other two Blackberry Jones'

All four in the tent

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Plants look beautiful!
Give em a nice worm tea, that mollasses/fish/kelp should help with the early fade

Woooohoooo...received today 80 pcs 3070 AB's. Waiting for other parts and do some constructing.

happy75 said:

Woooohoooo...received today 80 pcs 3070 AB's. Waiting for other parts and do some constructing.

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Lol, I wish we we friends.....
Seriously though thats awesome! I'm going to enjoy this...I'll keep an eye out for the 2nd sun firing up soon.

happy75 said:

Woooohoooo...received today 80 pcs 3070 AB's. Waiting for other parts and do some constructing.

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LOL !!!

You 're aware of course ,that with those 80 pieces ,of CXA3070 AB ,if driven at 75% ...
( @2100mA ....)
You're aware that you can illuminate LOTS of square meters ...
I mean ,lots of them ...


112.2/325 = 0.3452 ....
0.3452x 82.618 =28.522
28.522 x 80=
2281.57 Watts
Of output light irradiance ....

That is about the same light power as from 6.5 K HPS ...
For approx the same elec power ,at plug ...

WoW ..

happy75 said:

Woooohoooo...received today 80 pcs 3070 AB's. Waiting for other parts and do some constructing.

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Boss status right there!

Bueno Time said:

Boss status right there!

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LOL...but no boss here. Just being stupid and starting difficult as it is my first try on everything. I like new stuff.

stardustsailor said:

LOL !!!

You 're aware of course ,that with those 80 pieces ,of CXA3070 AB ,if driven at 75% ...
( @2100mA ....)
You're aware that you can illuminate LOTS of square meters ...
I mean ,lots of them ...
View attachment 3170679

112.2/325 = 0.3452 ....
0.3452x 82.618 =28.522
28.522 x 80=
2281.57 Watts
Of output light irradiance ....

That is about the same light power as from 6.5 K HPS ...
For approx the same elec power ,at plug ...

WoW ..

Click to expand...

Thanks for the calculations SDS. I wanted to use at first only 40 pcs @1400ma. Is that equal to 2.38K hps? Do you mean that it is equal to 2.38x 1000 watts HPS?

And God said let there be light. AND WOW!

happy75 said:

Woooohoooo...received today 80 pcs 3070 AB's. Waiting for other parts and do some constructing.

Click to expand...

Pffft! Thatz nothing..i recieved 81 pieces of 3070 CB's 2 daze ago.. Nah in all honesty i am a little jealous..

stardustsailor said:

LOL !!!

You 're aware of course ,that with those 80 pieces ,of CXA3070 AB ,if driven at 75% ...
( @2100mA ....)
You're aware that you can illuminate LOTS of square meters ...
I mean ,lots of them ...
View attachment 3170679

112.2/325 = 0.3452 ....
0.3452x 82.618 =28.522
28.522 x 80=
2281.57 Watts
Of output light irradiance ....

That is about the same light power as from 6.5 K HPS ...
For approx the same elec power ,at plug ...

WoW ..

Click to expand...

Your math goes over my head 90% of the time so I dont even try to understand most of it. Haha

But in this calculation, is that lumens per watt divided by LER then x dissipation wattage then x number of COBs?

Just tryin to see where you got the 325 number from I think that is the LER?

Yessr 325 is the LER. At 1.4A the 3000K ABs are 42% efficient or 137lm/W. They would put out a minimum of 7140 lumens. Very nice!

Awesome score Happy! I have been swapping out Z2s and swapping in ABs into my panels bit by bit and loving the boost, although to be honest my eyes can't detect the difference even though there is 15% more light lol.

SupraSPL said:

Yessr 325 is the LER.

Awesome score Happy! I have been swapping out Z2s and swapping in ABs into my panels bit by bit and loving the boost, although to be honest my eyes can't detect the difference even though there is 15% more light lol.

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Damn you guys and your AB bins.

Bueno Time said:

Your math goes over my head 90% of the time so I dont even try to understand most of it. Haha

But in this calculation, is that lumens per watt divided by LER then x dissipation wattage then x number of COBs?

Just tryin to see where you got the 325 number from I think that is the LER?

Click to expand...

happy75 said:

LOL...but no boss here. Just being stupid and starting difficult as it is my first try on everything. I like new stuff.




Thanks for the calculations SDS. I wanted to use at first only 40 pcs @1400ma. Is that equal to 2.38K hps? Do you mean that it is equal to 2.38x 1000 watts HPS?

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Ok ..more analytical,with the new numbers ...


At 1400mA driving current ...
(and a real -life,but also result of a top-notch cooling ,Tc of 45C ..)

One CXA3070 bin AB ,will have a luminous efficacy as an electrical light source ,
of 130.4 lumens per electrical Watt.

The 3000K ,80 CRI one has a Luminous efficacy of Radiation rated at 325
lumens per radiated Watt.
(if that led outputs 1 Watt of light power,it will have a luminosity of 325 lumens ) ..

Dividing 130.4 / 325 = 0.4012 light power Watts per electrical Watt .

(the efficiency ...)

At 1400mA ...The cxa is dissipating 52.056 Watts (electrical ones ..)

0,4012 * 52,056 = 20,886 Watts of output light power ,from a single CXA3070 ...
The rest is heat ( 31,169 Watts ) ....

40 pcs of CXA * 20,886 = 835 ,44 Watts of light .

depending which HPS lamp you choose to compare (250 -400-600-1000) ,efficiency of HPS
will vary ....
(Most efficient is the 600W ,being 38-39% efficient .. Only for couple thousands hours ,though..)
Average HPS efficiency is 33-35% ...

With 35% efficiency ,that light power ,will need 2387 Watts (electrical) of HPS ...

(100 /35 * 835.44 ....)

But ...at Happy's case ....
It only takes 40x 52,056 = 2082,2 Watts ....

Hps digital ballast vs CC led driver ,winner is the best quality..
Both can have efficiencies lower than 80% ,while both can have efficiencies over 90% ...
...

So ,Winner is CXA ,as it's light ,due to more power at ambers and reds from the hps ,
will have more umols of quanta at those wls ...More photosynthetically active radiation than the HPS ...

It contains ,more blue wls for sure ,than the HPS ...(Good also...)

And a more "balanced" spectrum at green/ yellow wls than the HPS ..(less power )

It does not radiate so much heat to foliage / leaf canopy as the HPS ...

It does not radiate 800 nm ,or >900 nm IR ...

40 pcs of CXAs ,will spread -by a factor of 10x - more evenly the light power,
over the leaf canopy's surface , than the 4x 600Watt HPS ...

Thus ...

With just 300W less electrical wattage(of which some have to be spend in powering fans ) ,it outperforms the 2.38K ( ~2.4 K ) HPS's photosynthetic efficiency and plant growth potential ...

In plenty of aspects ...

Cheers.

Still..

Personally ,I'm a fan of "Root Mean Square" ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square

To set /adjust a " Max Operational " value ....


" In the field of electrical engineering, the effective (RMS) value of a periodic current,
is equal to the DC voltage that delivers the same average power to a resistor as the periodic current. "

If a sinusoidal periodic current is driving the CXA from 0 mA to it's max If ( ' peak ' ) of 2800mA ,
then the (constant value ) RMS driving current will be ( 2.8 * √2 ) / 2= 1,979 =2 A .

....

Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

Still..

Personally ,I'm a fan of "Root Mean Square" ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square

To set /adjust a " Max Operational " value ....


" In the field of electrical engineering, the effective (RMS) value of a periodic current,
is equal to the DC voltage that delivers the same average power to a resistor as the periodic current. "

If a sinusoidal periodic current is driving the CXA from 0 mA to it's max If ( ' peak ' ) of 2800mA ,
then the (constant value ) RMS driving current will be ( 2.8 * √2 ) / 2= 1,979 =2 A .

....

Cheers.

Click to expand...

I don't get it. -edit- I get it. You want to max it?

stardustsailor said:

Ok ..more analytical,with the new numbers ...
View attachment 3170803

At 1400mA driving current ...
(and a real -life,but also result of a top-notch cooling ,Tc of 45C ..)

One CXA3070 bin AB ,will have a luminous efficacy as an electrical light source ,
of 130.4 lumens per electrical Watt.

The 3000K ,80 CRI one has a Luminous efficacy of Radiation rated at 325
lumens per radiated Watt.
(if that led outputs 1 Watt of light power,it will have a luminosity of 325 lumens ) ..

Dividing 130.4 / 325 = 0.4012 light power Watts per electrical Watt .

(the efficiency ...)

At 1400mA ...The cxa is dissipating 52.056 Watts (electrical ones ..)

0,4012 * 52,056 = 20,886 Watts of output light power ,from a single CXA3070 ...
The rest is heat ( 31,169 Watts ) ....

40 pcs of CXA * 20,886 = 835 ,44 Watts of light .

depending which HPS lamp you choose to compare (250 -400-600-1000) ,efficiency of HPS
will vary ....
(Most efficient is the 600W ,being 38-39% efficient .. Only for couple thousands hours ,though..)
Average HPS efficiency is 33-35% ...

With 35% efficiency ,that light power ,will need 2387 Watts (electrical) of HPS ...

(100 /35 * 835.44 ....)

But ...at Happy's case ....
It only takes 40x 52,056 = 2082,2 Watts ....

Hps digital ballast vs CC led driver ,winner is the best quality..
Both can have efficiencies lower than 80% ,while both can have efficiencies over 90% ...
...

So ,Winner is CXA ,as it's light ,due to more power at ambers and reds from the hps ,
will have more umols of quanta at those wls ...More photosynthetically active radiation than the HPS ...

It contains ,more blue wls for sure ,than the HPS ...(Good also...)

And a more "balanced" spectrum at green/ yellow wls than the HPS ..(less power )

It does not radiate so much heat to foliage / leaf canopy as the HPS ...

It does not radiate 800 nm ,or >900 nm IR ...

40 pcs of CXAs ,will spread -by a factor of 10x - more evenly the light power,
over the leaf canopy's surface , than the 4x 600Watt HPS ...

Thus ...

With just 300W less electrical wattage(of which some have to be spend in powering fans ) ,it outperforms the 2.38K ( ~2.4 K ) HPS's photosynthetic efficiency...

In plenty of aspects ...

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the calculations, its clear to me now. 40 leds equals 4 600w HPS. But for the electrical bill...300 watts savings is not much and the fans need to be driven also. So maybe 200 watt savings, that is not much. But the profit must come from a larger grow.