diy led

guod

guod

Well-Known Member
mikadodarkside said:
First off i fully intend to call people on their shit.

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On another note

that transformer (AC-DC) looks like every other transformer just not in some shitty plastic case.... seriously people... you dont know what the fuck a transformer looks like.... hahahahahha they are old technology that has remained the same for the last 40 years.... just dont get it wet because that shit will sort.... but so would one in a case if water got in.... so dont stress it. just make it safe..... basicly you take 110 and depending on the coils of your transformer A:B for example 4:1 would imply that you get 1/4 the voltage... then its a simple diode bridge to rectify it and store the charge in some large caps.... you can build them youself with a toroid for about 5 bucks and some time winding wire.


your design is awesome and i expect a growlog...

regards.

ps. sorry about the spelling, as an engineer i figure math and theory is more valued.
Click to expand...
right on the point Mr. engineer, but

this is not a ordinary transformer, this is a Switched-mode power supply.


So, grab your toroid and wind a transformer with these Specs.

Input Voltage: 85-265V
Output Current: 300-330mA, <±5%
Output Voltage: DC36-57V

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply

your wrong... and your kinda a dic....
Click to expand...
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
mikadodarkside said:
First off i fully intend to call people on their shit.


Anyone who thinks that chinese LEDs are way worse then americans LED's is an idiot... maybe 10-20 percent difference in performance.... while at 1/4 the cost...... american companies often fabricate their semiconductors in china.... and those plants are susceptible to espionage just as companies in the continental US

also given the recent advancements in LEDs.... a cree LED bought last year,very well may have been surpassed by a non name chineses LED made this year or in the near future.....

dont belive me..... well check out how recently the 660 nm LED came into the market... im talking powerful 3-5 watt LED's ... the first company that i saw with 660nm was a japanese one... there was some articles on the usefulness with regards to plant growth. however i could not find a supplier ( as they probably only fill orders of 10 000 or more) this was about 8-9 months ago ... then a few months later i could buy LEDENGIN 660 nm leds(4-6 months ago)..... then about a month after that Ebay was flooded with 660nm led of the 3 watt variety made in china.... currently they are about 1USD for a 3 watt led.... ( buy 50 or so).


so with technology moving that fast its really ignorant to say that a chinese made is worse.... especialy because cree manufacturs in china.... so read a fucking book on semi conductors and realize that the quality of the product depends on the quality of the fabrication site.... most of the time these fabs need to be at 95-98% capacity to see a return on the huge investment of capital for the equipment to manufacture semiconductors. (pure cystaline silicon, lithography, photoresits, etching, chemical deposition, packaging ect) so basicly a company like Cree comes along... gives them a design and they make it... if it meets spects it ships... if it doesnt meet specs it get (thrown out.... or straight to ebay as a no name LED) when Cree's order is done they make some other guys LED design that may or may not be as good.... point here is its made in the same place with the same shit....... if you look really close at an LED that is off you can see a distinct pattern, this is the border between the anode and the cathode.... the shapes are really what changes form suppliers like cree to those of a no-name....

On another note

that transformer (AC-DC) looks like every other transformer just not in some shitty plastic case.... seriously people... you dont know what the fuck a transformer looks like.... hahahahahha they are old technology that has remained the same for the last 40 years.... just dont get it wet because that shit will sort.... but so would one in a case if water got in.... so dont stress it. just make it safe..... basicly you take 110 and depending on the coils of your transformer A:B for example 4:1 would imply that you get 1/4 the voltage... then its a simple diode bridge to rectify it and store the charge in some large caps.... you can build them youself with a toroid for about 5 bucks and some time winding wire.


your design is awesome and i expect a growlog...

regards.

ps. sorry about the spelling, as an engineer i figure math and theory is more valued.
Click to expand...
You are mostly correct. Asians are fully capable of producing quality when speced by the customer.

The comments were directed more at commercial grade knockoff fixtures/diodes flooding the market. Field repairs are almost impossible on these units. They should have clarified.

Also I double checked albert's parts list and saw only RB, no whites, so I wonder were that posters' comment came from, plus it was liked by several people. WTF?

RB alone will not produce great quality as it neglects the important mid bands which act as catalysts to RB. The new Cree Neutral Whites provide every essential spectrum short of 660+. I suggest 90:10 NW/660s, to be on a separate circuit/timer for flower only
 
M

mikadodarkside

Well-Known Member
guod said:
right on the point Mr. engineer, but

this is not a ordinary transformer, this is a Switched-mode power supply.


So, grab your toroid and wind a transformer with these Specs.

Input Voltage: 85-265V
Output Current: 300-330mA, <±5%
Output Voltage: DC36-57V

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply
Click to expand...


switching mode transformers are DC-DC transformers..... generally there are Buck (high DC- Lower DC) Boots - (DC to higher DC) or buck boost which can do both.
you can also synthesize AC from DC with a comparator wave and a triangular wave form.... but thats a little above the stoner educate.

that transformer may have a switcher but i doubt it. pobably just a full bridge rectifier with a transformer that lowers the ac voltage.... ohhh and a current regulator or some sort....


anyways....
 
M

music64

Well-Known Member
how would i power these leds not really a good diy person with electricity. lol.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-3W-Warm-white-2700K-High-Power-Star-LED-Light-Lamp-for-Bulb-Aquarium-Tnank-/221121541083?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item337bdef3db#ht_3791wt_1224

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-3W-Red-660nm-power-LED-3watt-for-plant-grow-light-/180758768576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a160febc0#ht_2313wt_1186

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-3W-Red-High-Power-LED-Light-Emitter-610-630NM-with-20mm-Star-Heatsink-/320938695037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab96fd97d#ht_4224wt_952

10 2700k
20 660nm
20 630nm

is that a good ratio?
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this is a little harder than it looks.

Rules.
1) Good leds are expensive!!
2) Learn how to read the datasheets. All leds are not created equal.
3) Read until your eyes bleed.

What we are after is the greatest number of photons for the least watts in the best(subjective term) colors or frequencies. There a number of schools of thought here. Google KNNA Led.
To get an Idea of what quality DYI leds are about, go to http://www.rapidled.com and look around.

Come back with some more questions.
 
M

music64

Well-Known Member
thank you for that wonderful site tenthirty. what would you say would be a good ratio for a 200w and under led set up. thinking about keeping the plants small and in party cups. but would like to have like 9 plants in a small 2x2 area
 
M

mikadodarkside

Well-Known Member
tenthirty said:
Unfortunately, this is a little harder than it looks.

Rules.
1) Good leds are expensive!!
2) Learn how to read the datasheets. All leds are not created equal.
3) Read until your eyes bleed.

What we are after is the greatest number of photons for the least watts in the best(subjective term) colors or frequencies. There a number of schools of thought here. Google KNNA Led.
To get an Idea of what quality DYI leds are about, go to http://www.rapidled.com and look around.

Come back with some more questions.
Click to expand...


NO NO NO NO NO... fuck man....

the amount of miss information is overwhelming.... there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying cheap chinese or korean LEDS..... you will have a slightly lower performance but the $/lumen are defiantly worth it... It is scales of magnitude more economicaly efficient to buy them... Look at all the actual LED companies and how they claim to use high quality LEDs... Ive seen countless forms about blackstars or magnums crapping out and they use (american LEDs)... this is only true for some really shitty LEDs but for the most part you are getting way more bang for your buck .... so go pay 5 bucks for a 3Watt LED if you want... but dont go spreading your poison in the ears of others...


With regard to MUSIC64..

in terms of ratios its hard to say what is best... but i can tell you what will work very well.... also i will post a link for a very cheap LED driver... all you need is a AC-DC computer adapter (15-30 volts DC) a resistor, a mosfet and a npn transistor ( total cost about 2$ if u buy expensive stuff) the link i give you will have the specific part numbers so just follow what they did....

all three watt (700mA) LEds... make sure your driver current is the same for ordering all your LEDs....

always under drive your LEds... this improves the lifespan and reduces heat.... it also increase efficiency dramaticly... for example an LED outputting light at 100mA is way more efficient then an LED outputting light at 700mA.

also get a big fucking piece of aluminum from a scrap yard for a heat sink , improvise with shapes and remember its better to have a large heat sink then a small one... dont want to over heat... get some silicon thermal grease if you want to thermaly join pieces of aluminum or improvise engineered shapes on the cheap... welding aluminum is a no go... you want a compleat thermal connection. (thermal greas = 20bucks) ... you can literally make a 200W LEd for under 100$ easily.... ive done it multiple times...

10x 2700K
10x 6000K -> some people say this is the same as 20X4500k but fuck it. i always use different whites for the lulz

15x 660nm
10x630 nm
5x465nm
5x410-440nm ( whatever you can get thats the same drive current rating.
2-5x730nm
2 x 380-400nm


that will grow some epic buds... you can improve this even more by adding yellows and even a single green. or any colours inbetween.

the hardest part is arranging your LEDS so that the voltage drop over an array to be 90% of the total voltage drop... for example if you are using 24Volts and your LED array uses 20Volts at a 500mA current rating then you are going to be dissapating 4x500mA in your resistor and mosfet.... thats only two watts but it can over heat your sillicon ( if sillicon gets hotter then 150 degrees C) then the device is ruined.... so you want your LED array to use 23-23.5 Volts... that way only a fraction of a watt is lost in the semiconductors....


here is the website for the driver...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Circuits-for-using-High-Power-LED-s/
 
M

mikadodarkside

Well-Known Member
also i forgot to mention.... you should drive your LEDs at like 60-70% off their capacity... this is determined by the resistor in the instractables article....

for the most part Red LEDs drop 2.2-2.5 volts.... and blues drop 3.4 volts... IR LEDs drop 2.2 the same as the reds... and UV bults are more like 3.7-3.8 volts... so do the math and estimate a combination of these LEDs that is almost equal to your DC voltage from your adapter. like all reds with a 24volt DC adapter, you could do 10 Leds and you might be right on the money... but blues you could only do 6... if you mix and match you will find something that work... but you will probably also blow a few of the LEDs too but they are dirt cheap so fuck it.

you can buy drivers and heat sinks from sites like the one tenthirty recommended but your getting ripped off and you might as well really do it yourself.... thats the only way to beat the prices of actual LED companies as it stands.... so do it all yourself or buy from a company... there is no middle ground unless you are buying an education with your poor economic decision. (aka you wana set up your own aray but you dont want to learn about drivers )

goodluck motherfucker
 
tenthirty

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
music64 said:
thank you for that wonderful site tenthirty. what would you say would be a good ratio for a 200w and under led set up. thinking about keeping the plants small and in party cups. but would like to have like 9 plants in a small 2x2 area
Click to expand...
Ok, good question, ahhh, but the million dollar question.

Here is a little tidbit I picked up somewhere else. http://donklipstein.com/ledfaq.html#66l
IMHO Petflora is on the right track.

So now let me help you to get your eyes to bleed and exorcise your mind.
KNNA is the most well versed writer on the subject of leds and our particular cultivar.

Google "Discussion of the pragmatic application of LED's"

150w should be enough for a 2x2 with high quality leds.
Now 20 plants in party cups sog'd, that would be cool!!

As always, come back with some more questions.
 
S

subcool fan

Member
is there a definitive link around here on building a veg only led? i would like 600w to cover my 3x8 veg space. and i cant seem to find if the ratios are the same of dif as there is a lot of contradicting info out there.

thanx.
 
plantz

plantz

Well-Known Member
patrikantonius said:
I'm sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic but as a "DIYer", here's my opinion. You went with a good idea but I think you lacked budget or didn't do sufficient research to obtain a really good light.
- The LEDs are bad; no-name "1w" chips from Chinese manufacturer, I really doubt they are any decent. I would recommend to go with branded LEDs such as Cree, Philips, Avago, Osram, etc.
- The spectrum you created is wrong. 20pcs blue and 40pcs white will make a lot of unefficient blue light. Roughly 50% of your light will be in the blue part of the spectrum, while for flowering it is recommended to have 15% or less. Even for vegging, 20% is recommended, you'd have far too much blue too.
As a rule of thumb, I'd recommend to go with 75% red/deep red, and 25% white/blue
Also a side note on white LEDs. You don't need multiple color temperatures for white LEDs. Basically a high-temperature white (cool white) will be a white with a lot of blue and a small amount of green-yellow-amber. When choosing a lower-temperature white (neutral, warm white), what you basically do is decreasing the ratio of blue to other colors. All in all, what happens is, for instance, 1* 6000k + 1* 2700k can be replaced by 2* 4300k with exact same results.

The idea of going DIY is good when you give yourself the opportunity to create something better or cheaper than manufactured products. Here, a low wattage HID will certainly have similar results for a similar price and without any hassle.
Click to expand...
Couldnt agree more, the man knows what hes talking about! Cree are some of the best leds out there.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
subcool fan said:
is there a definitive link around here on building a veg only led? i would like 600w to cover my 3x8 veg space. and i cant seem to find if the ratios are the same of dif as there is a lot of contradicting info out there.

thanx.
Click to expand...
The main reason for contradicting led 411 is that we were sold a bill of goods right from the start. While you 'can' grow mj in less than ideal conditions, the question is WHY?

KNNA pointed out back in 2010-11 that you can grow nice plants using WHITES only, but few listened. WHY? It's harder to unlearn something than to learn it. Efficiency was the primary reason to use B/R, but the 500-600 nms were somehow left out. And guess what is loaded with 500-600- hps, and we know that works pretty well for flowering, BUT it too benefits from hybrid lighting.

Cost is relative. I do not know enough to build my own led lights from scratch, but I sure as hell can put together a plug-n-play kit, ala rapidleds solderless kits + drilled/tapped heat sinks. So what if it cost me an EXTRA $50-100? That's nothing over ~5 years of use, and the peace of mind is priceless.

Spectrums

Cree NW led contains sufficient 630nm which provides 90%+ of what plants utilize to flower. I would add ~ 10% 660 on a separate switch/driver to use during flower cycle only, and quite possibly on 2 separate rail heat sinks to parallel the main light. (If you split the main light into 2 boards you can run 3 660 rails- on in between)

If you want to get all scientific, make room for ~ 10% IR (not led~) on a separate timer, to be used AFTER regular lights are out and only for < 20 minutes. The layperson answer to WHY is this will trick the plant into thinking it is still in full grow mode. It's good for ~ 2more hours, and saves $$$$$.

Size your watts to heat sink availability. Rapid now offers a 23" X 4.5". I would get multiples of those for the main lights. You can parallel them for a square grow area, or in line ala EVO.
 
V

viewer1020

Well-Known Member
mikadodarkside said:
NO NO NO NO NO... fuck man....

the amount of miss information is overwhelming.... there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying cheap chinese or korean LEDS..... you will have a slightly lower performance but the $/lumen are defiantly worth it... It is scales of magnitude more economicaly efficient to buy them... Look at all the actual LED companies and how they claim to use high quality LEDs... Ive seen countless forms about blackstars or magnums crapping out and they use (american LEDs)... this is only true for some really shitty LEDs but for the most part you are getting way more bang for your buck .... so go pay 5 bucks for a 3Watt LED if you want... but dont go spreading your poison in the ears of others...
Click to expand...
Chill.

Your selection criteria are not the same as everyone else's. For you and many others, $/lumen is the biggest factor. In that case, you are absolutely right, you can get a great LED setup with cheap components. We can all see the examples in the forum.

For some people, lumen/watt is the biggest thing. If you're building a small, ultra-stealthy setup and you have $ to spend, it makes sense to prioritize performance over dollars. Some things to consider:

- heatsinks and other overheads are not free, and you can't get cheaper ones to match cheaper diodes. Quite the reverse:

- higher efficiency diodes produce less heat as well as more light at a given current.

- the DIY path involves a bit of labor. If you're spending $100 on heatsinking and 10 hours of labor, is it worth spending $300 on LEDs rather than $150? For me, if the light output increases by 20%, then yes.

- name brand manufacturers give us datasheets. When I have asked for datasheets for noname diodes, I have been told "look at the ad, all the info is there".

It's not a one-size-fits-all picture. I'm currently growing plants under noname chinese diodes, and they are doing great. When I build my upgraded panel, though, I will be looking for the point in the price : performance curve which best fits my intentions and budget at the time. I'd be more likely to go with a noname option again if they offered me datasheets, but they don't.
 
Jahulath

Jahulath

Member
mikadodarkside said:
also i forgot to mention.... you should drive your LEDs at like 60-70% off their capacity... this is determined by the resistor in the instractables article....

for the most part Red LEDs drop 2.2-2.5 volts.... and blues drop 3.4 volts... IR LEDs drop 2.2 the same as the reds... and UV bults are more like 3.7-3.8 volts... so do the math and estimate a combination of these LEDs that is almost equal to your DC voltage from your adapter. like all reds with a 24volt DC adapter, you could do 10 Leds and you might be right on the money... but blues you could only do 6... if you mix and match you will find something that work... but you will probably also blow a few of the LEDs too but they are dirt cheap so fuck it.

you can buy drivers and heat sinks from sites like the one tenthirty recommended but your getting ripped off and you might as well really do it yourself.... thats the only way to beat the prices of actual LED companies as it stands.... so do it all yourself or buy from a company... there is no middle ground unless you are buying an education with your poor economic decision. (aka you wana set up your own aray but you dont want to learn about drivers )

goodluck motherfucker
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Well you just became my hero. I have a $100 project on myself, all 10w LED for the absolute lowest price I could find. $ per lumen is my game and I have been feeling rather humbled by all of the people that swear that plants won't grow unless you spend $1,000,000 and offer up your anus.
I am a total autodidact by nature so this project is about 30% serious about wanting to make a functional lamp and 70% about "how" one makes a functional lamp. My reason for using LED is that hopefully will run a little cooler than an HID, I plan to use this on a very small scale, I have $100 to piss away (fuckit I can smoke that in a week) so where's the harm?

Your words are inspirational, I now feel like I am NOT wasting my time (money less important) and more importantly my anus will be unspoiled. Many, many thanks.

FYI DOUBTERS: I tested a red LED http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390304162652?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 about half an hour ago with an old 9v battery (way high voltage but feck all current) - I still have a slight spot in my left eye. The white ones I ordered are meant to be twice as bright! I will be producing a higher Watt/Lumen than the very best that CFL can offer (average ~80) and assuming that I'm correct the "law of the inverse square" will mean I am as effective as a 250W HID. To phrase that differently I shall be half the lumens of an HID lamp but much much closer.
 
Jahulath

Jahulath

Member
90 Degree lenses sounds like a great idea, how do they attach? From the image it looks like you already have lenses on each unit but that may just be my mind filling in detail that ain't really there :)
 
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