Doggie's nuts

kona gold

kona gold

Well-Known Member
Jogro said:
A couple points here:

Most (probably 90%) of buyers will only buy one pack of a given line to test them out. People do NOT spend $100 for a pack of "award winning" beans, grow them out to find all losers, then decide, hey, let me spend ANOTHER $200-$300 looking for better phenos. It just doesn't happen that way. Instead, what happens is they cut their losses and start posting on the internet about how they got screwed and will never buy another overpriced bean from that company again. If your business strategy is to try and get people to pheno-chase your lines by buying multiple packs, you're probably not going to do well. If you put out crap that's supposed to be great, it will catch up to you sooner or later.

Doggies Nuts, apparently folded as a company, though poster Kona Gold said that one of the workers at Attitude seed bank told him that someone else picked up the name and is working the lines.

Without getting into a rant about it, I think the more sophisticated growers realize that the High Times cannabis cup is mostly about hype and doesn't necessarily represent the best genetics out there, let alone the "best" most suited to any individual grower.

Next point, contrary to popular misconception, plants grown from self-pollinated plants (ie S1 ceeds) ARE NOT genetically identical to the mother plant and most often WILL throw off different phenos. The only reliable exception to this is with true-breeding lines where all plants from that line put out similar phenos. So you can't just take an award winning individual plant, or "clone only" line, self it, and create ceeds that will grow into identical plants. It just doesn't happen that way. At *best* some of the plants you create this way may be similar to the parent, but depending on how hybridized the parent is, it may be precious few. . .only 1 in 100, or less. If it were that easy to replicate superior individual plants into ceed form, then there would be no such think as bad genetics. . .all beans would be awesome.

On F10s, there are plenty of ceeds out there like that, they're just not advertised as such. EG, most of the commercial Skunk, Northern Lights, landrace Afghanis, etc, are inbred this way. Sannie CALLs his Jack "Sannie's Jack F7"; that one is fairly inbred. You can buy a labelled Herijuana F19 from "Da Bean Co" if you like. As you say, most buyers simply don't know the difference between S1s, F1s, inbred lines, etc, to know why they should (or shouldn't) be looking for stuff like this.

IMO, if you're a personal grower working against small plant counts, stability
is VERY useful.
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I must agree that s1 doesn't guarentee anything. Most are hybrids of known or unknown origins.....and don't recombine well...even in s1 form.

Secondly....JOGROW.....i forgot to respond to a post on large number breeding that ties to what your saying. That when breeders think that by growing large populations of hybrids for their breeding program....that these large diverse numbers and combinations make it hard to stay focused on the goals of your original project....side tracking one from original idea...to a great pheno they found that they weren't looking for. Then they have multiple crosses of an already hybrid strain....leading future generations down a path of muttled weakness.
Now i am in favor of large number breeding projects if the stock they are breeding from are true breeding ibl's of landraces......as these are not hybrids and expressions of the peoject can be locked down and further refined.
Sorry to bring up a point on an older thread on this one.
 
bignam

bignam

Well-Known Member
over priced..they are in business so some people still buy it. i guess people think its better because it costs more maybe thats the logic behind the pricing. there are so many good seed companies that charge way less and are bomb genetics. i couldnt justify spending that much on beans.
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
kona gold said:
Secondly....JOGROW.....i forgot to respond to a post on large number breeding that ties to what your saying. That when breeders think that by growing large populations of hybrids for their breeding program....that these large diverse numbers and combinations make it hard to stay focused on the goals of your original project....side tracking one from original idea...to a great pheno they found that they weren't looking for.
Click to expand...
This is a good topic, but it has nothing to do with "Doggie's Nuts".

Disciplined pro breeders who know what they are doing have a plan for their project before they start and then stick to it along the way.

Its not "lets cross these and see what happens and maybe we can find something good" its "lets take trait A from strain A, trait B from strain B, trait C from strain C, and combine them into plant D in some sort of stable way".

Yes, sometimes, when crossing things you can find a "happy accident" that "can" lead you off to a side path, or side project, and sometimes you don't end up with exactly what you were after when you started, but these things shouldn't derail a proper project.

Then they have multiple crosses of an already hybrid strain....leading future generations down a path of muttled weakness.
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Depending on how you do your selection, you can create remarkably different stable lines from the same parents. For example, did you know that broccoli, kale, cauliflower and brussels sprouts, are all probably derived from the same ancestor plant?

Now i am in favor of large number breeding projects if the stock they are breeding from are true breeding ibl's of landraces......as these are not hybrids and expressions of the peoject can be locked down and further refined.
Click to expand...
Obviously, there is no point to creating lines inferior to already existing ones.

But ultimately how stable a given line is, is a function of the discipline of the breeder, not the original source of the genetics. Not only can you can stabilize traits from hybrids if you want to. . .but actually *ALL* breeding necessarily does this. If you're starting with inbred lines and breeding out to F8s, then starting with your F1s, all subsequent generations are hybrids.

Starting with landraces can be interesting, but its neither necessary nor sufficient to end up with good new lines.
 
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