Dr. Bruce Bugbee method: NASA technique on Mars etc.

billevans92 said:

omg! that's great, thanks for your input. you did the half peat half vermiculite soil and it wasn't too wet? it happens that i don't have great control of the humidity and temp of the room, so i fear that soil gets really wet. also: you fed the girls 20-10-20 during the whole grow and it was ok?*

*edit: after i asked you this i read previous messages where you adressed that yes, you followed the same npk proportions during the whole cycle

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Yes. I did use 20-10-20 throughout.
Although after the first feed, the top set of leaf tips turned slightly yellow. I suspect there was a slight shock when the nuits were first introduced
Others in this thread experienced the same thing and advised slowly ramping up the fertilizer component over a few waterings to try to avoid this.
Although the NPK is pretty dilute, the suggested fertilizer measurements might have an impact on a young plant in early veg. As always, other factors play a role.
Good luck with your grow.

billevans92 said:

i'm so happy i found this topic. i wanted to try the bugbee method myself but it seems it's not for begginers; i read lots of advanced growers having some kind of trouble... i also have problem finding pelletized gypsum that doesn't come in very large quantities...

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First time grower here as well. I'm so glad I found this method before I began growing. Also I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble finding pellet gypsum, that seems to be most people's struggles when it comes to wanting to try this method of growing, finding all the ingredients.

Vizzaro said:

First time grower here as well. I'm so glad I found this method before I began growing. Also I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble finding pellet gypsum, that seems to be most people's struggles when it comes to wanting to try this method of growing, finding all the ingredients.

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You want cheap, possibly free gypsum?

Go to home Depot or Lowe's and go to the drywall section. Go to the pile that is not fungus resistant. You do not want any pesticides in there. Find the broken boards. There are always broken boards.

Once you have identified a broken board go to a salesman or manager and tell them you'll take that piece of crap off his hands for free because you know no one's going to buy it. Sometimes they say go ahead. Other times they say no way, and charge you a couple of bucks for it.

Cart this cracked and shattered wallboard home. Spend a bit of time peeling the cardboard exterior. Have fun with it with a sledgehammer. Then go after it with one of those hand mixers. Finally put it through kitchen sifters, the wire mesh one.

Each time you do this you will be left with paper and rocks on the top and perfect gypsum on the bottom. Run through this process a few times and you will get an enormous amount of gypsum for 1/20 the amount the garden store would charge you.

Thank you guys, you are really nice. I don't uderstand how to give a "like" to your answers , but all my gratitude to you!

Vizzaro said:

First time grower here as well. I'm so glad I found this method before I began growing. Also I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble finding pellet gypsum, that seems to be most people's struggles when it comes to wanting to try this method of growing, finding all the ingredients.

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definitely is! i also need a ph and EC meter, but that's easy to solve (i did my two previous grows without having them, but i used soil, which is a more "forgiving" method as far as i know). as for the gypsum, our good friend BonnMac here suggested using some kind of powdered form, suggestion i find interesting (also maybe pellets are super-slow release for an indoor setting? (????) let's have an optimistic view xD).

there is another thing that popped my head: i think bugbee method really depends on the interaction between parameters and it's made for "pushing plants really hard". thing is i don't know if i intend to push that really hard, because i don't know if my equipement is that powerfull, ppfd wise, for example (i have a 300w cheap full spectrum, which gives me lots of light to my tiny 56*58*160cm flowering room); or ventilation/co2 wise. i have a really budget setup so far: just a 4" cooler for extraction, a 3" one inside for circulation (think i don't have room for an oscillating fan), the 300w non-efficient light and some holes below for passive intraction; definitely not an apogee lab setup xD, and my veg room is even cheaper.

but as u probably already guessed, i also tend to overthink everything xD, so... as george costanza would say: i just can't tell anymore

BonnMac said:

Curious about the outcomes and/or the ongoing grows using this media mix and 20-10-20 food.
Success?

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I second this question.

nanners1 said:

I second this question.

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This is my success! 13oz from 4 plants in a 3x3x6 grow tent using a 240W Quantum Board.

The soilless media Carolina Soil is very popular among growers in Brazil since the early 2000s, i think it looks pretty similar: 70% Peat Moss, 30% Vermiculite, Lime Dolomite, Gypsum.

I just got 8oz from 3 autos in a 2x2 with a 200W QB on my first grow. I mixed 5 Tbsp of Bone Meal, 5 Tbsp of Castor Cake and 10 Tbsp of Worm Castings because it sounded foolproof, no ph, ec ppm stuff just water straight from the tap for 4 weeks then i feed Plantafol 20-20-20 two or three times every other watering. I took the upper buds in 10 weeks. My exhaust system was 2 case fans with no air circulation, i was flowering with 99% humidity at lights off and 38°C/100°F at lights on.

chicofrito said:

The soilless media Carolina Soil is very popular among growers in Brazil since the early 2000s, i think it looks pretty similar: 70% Peat Moss, 30% Vermiculite, Lime Dolomite, Gypsum.

I just got 8oz from 3 autos in a 2x2 with a 200W QB on my first grow. I mixed 5 Tbsp of Bone Meal, 5 Tbsp of Castor Cake and 10 Tbsp of Worm Castings because it sounded foolproof, no ph, ec ppm stuff just water straight from the tap for 4 weeks then i feed Plantafol 20-20-20 two or three times every other watering. I took the upper buds in 10 weeks. My exhaust system was 2 case fans with no air circulation, i was flowering with 99% humidity at lights off and 38°C/100°F at lights on.
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thanks so much for your detailed report! it's really interesting. and you did great, congrats. your succes encourages me

saludos desde argentina <3

chicofrito said:

The soilless media Carolina Soil is very popular among growers in Brazil since the early 2000s, i think it looks pretty similar: 70% Peat Moss, 30% Vermiculite, Lime Dolomite, Gypsum.

I just got 8oz from 3 autos in a 2x2 with a 200W QB on my first grow. I mixed 5 Tbsp of Bone Meal, 5 Tbsp of Castor Cake and 10 Tbsp of Worm Castings because it sounded foolproof, no ph, ec ppm stuff just water straight from the tap for 4 weeks then i feed Plantafol 20-20-20 two or three times every other watering. I took the upper buds in 10 weeks. My exhaust system was 2 case fans with no air circulation, i was flowering with 99% humidity at lights off and 38°C/100°F at lights on.
View attachment 4948692View attachment 4948674View attachment 4948675View attachment 4948727View attachment 4948718

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very interesting to see the soilless mix you guys have there! by the way, are you sure your hygrometer is calibrated or functional? 99% humidity sounds very, very off.

nanners1 said:

hygrometer is calibrated or functional? 99% humidity sounds very, very off.

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Not when you in Brazil

@BonnMac @Vizzaro @Overgrowtho , did you guys prepare your peat moss? Ive been reading I have to pre-wet and dry and wet again for 3 weeks before using.

nanners1 said:

@BonnMac @Vizzaro @Overgrowtho , did you guys prepare your peat moss? Ive been reading I have to pre-wet and dry and wet again for 3 weeks before using.

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I personally didn't. Although I've read that is a good thing to do.

Seems like a very interesting method. The soil composition is definitely a little different from traditional perlite and peat with lime. But the fertilizer is a pretty decent swing from even going for the Jack's method and would probably be a decent deal cheaper. And quite simple as it is a single fertilizer.

The only issue I am seeing is the lack of calcium and magnesium if one does not have water as hard as they appear to have in Utah.
Here my water has something like 100mg/L of hardness, and I think there they have 200+ and EC of .4 vs my EC of .2 so I think I would be calcium deficient without adding something like gypsum.

havox07 said:

Seems like a very interesting method. The soil composition is definitely a little different from traditional perlite and peat with lime. But the fertilizer is a pretty decent swing from even going for the Jack's method and would probably be a decent deal cheaper. And quite simple as it is a single fertilizer.

The only issue I am seeing is the lack of calcium and magnesium if one does not have water as hard as they appear to have in Utah.
Here my water has something like 100mg/L of hardness, and I think there they have 200+ and EC of .4 vs my EC of .2 so I think I would be calcium deficient without adding something like gypsum.

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Understood.
You can always dial in your PH & EC by following his parameters. It's slightly intimidating and perhaps counterintuitive but you're gaining knowledge from a scientist.
As with anything, the more you do it, the more you know what works best for you.

here are some interesting papers by the Dr. and his crew

sadly i couldn't find a single paper by the Dr that talks about the silicon aspect of the peat-vermiculite soil

edit: but i found something by another scientist: Are Clay Minerals a Significant Source of Si for Crops?

"Identifying the source(s) of silicon (Si) for plant is a key issue in understanding the terrestrial cycle of Si and for deciphering the reservoir of bioavailable Si to Si accumulating crops. In soils, amorphous Si, one of the most bioavailable source, is mostly present as phytoliths and has been suggested for use as a Si fertilizer by diatomite application. Although clay minerals are known to contribute to plant nutrition, their role as a major source of silica for plants has not been fully addressed. We aim at evaluating the efficiency of clay minerals as a source of Si for crops. We conducted two pot experiments: one wheat-growing experiment to compare a clay (vermiculitic) mineral and amorphous silica particles (diatomite, which is used as a phytolith substitute), and one rice-growing experiment to compare two types of clay (kaolinite vs montmorillonite) common in rice cultivation. We confirmed that the amorphous silica was more efficient than vermiculite for Si uptake by wheat. However, the Si uptake was not significantly different between the 5% diatomite substrate and the 25% vermiculite substrate indicating that clays may challenge amorphous silica, as a source of Si for crops. The kaolinite probably delivered less Si to the rice than the montmorillonite because of the lower specific surface area and lower pH of kaolinite substrates. Because clays are generally much more abundant in soils than amorphous silica, we concluded that clays may be a substantial Si source for plants, depending on the clay mineralogy".

another thing to adress (?): seems that this soilless mix seems to allow you to complete a full cycle without the need of transplants? the Dr. uses the same pot for little plants and big ones:

billevans92 said:

another thing to adress (?): seems that this soilless mix seems to allow you to complete a full cycle without the need of transplants? the Dr. uses the same pot for little plants and big ones:

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thats actually any medium. you can grow as big as you want in any pot as long as you: 1. water accordingly (a small pot will require several waterings a day if it has a big plant) and 2. you make sure you don`t get root bound (applying copper pruning or air pruning, for example with smart pots).

nanners1 said:

thats actually any medium. you can grow as big as you want in any pot as long as you: 1. water accordingly (a small pot will require several waterings a day if it has a big plant) and 2. you make sure you don`t get root bound (applying copper pruning or air pruning, for example with smart pots).

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thanks, nanners1! i've been using textile pots for a while, but i'm getting tired of them because i have some issues when transplanting, with the roots being "attached" to the pot... but this could perhaps be solved by avoiding transplants.

i have a question regarding bugbee's method (that's a new one xD): he says that you should always "over"water until you get a 10% runnoff, aprox. this is true also when the plant is really young, like really small for the size of it's container? wouldn't the medium take forever to dry? i'm thinking about fungus and all that jazz..