Dr. Bruce Bugbee method: NASA technique on Mars etc.

Vizzaro · Feb 25, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
I've read that they use:

Aquagro 2000G

But this was hard to find for me.

And there are many liquid ones that could perhaps be placed into our fertigation reservoirs.

Understanding that it might be less ideal; but in lieu of a medium-based solid surfactant, I wondered if a liquid surfactant might be helpful to use in it's place? So I asked via email and the guy who replied said: yes.

Thank you for this. I was able to find a shop close by that is a distributor of Aquagro 2000G. Maybe this is what I need for my Peat mix. Also I do have some yucca powder on me, would I be able to mix that into my media and have it be effective?

Milky Weed · Feb 25, 2022

Vizzaro said:
Promix bx, I am checking it out and it looks like a nice recipe and it has nutrients in it already. How do you like/prefer that compared to Dr. Bugbee's mix?

Also I take it that packing any media into a pot is a bad idea cause it won't be as fluffy thus causing the roots to suffocate. So then that might be where I went wrong with this grow. I have been having issues with the media drying out and becoming hydrophobic so the water would just run out the side so I figured if I compact it more it would stop that from happening.

Also about water. Does Dr. Bugbee talk about water and if R/O and does he talk about alternatives to hard tap water? I think my tap water is too hard with it being an EC of 0.7.

Ill message you about what i do, and i just call it bugbee media because its dtw peat. I generally have a replacement for most of what he calls for in the mix.

Vizzaro · Feb 25, 2022

Also I don't think I got a chance to update you all on my last grow which was a Girl Scout Cookies Extreme (Auto) from ILGM. The seed was given to me by a freind. I got 5oz of the plant, unfortunately I stunted her in her veg cycle but I am still happy with the results.
This plant was grown with Dr.Bugbee's new updated mix minus the wetting agent.

Derbud420 · Feb 27, 2022

Dr Bruce's method is for Mars , right? Substantial consideration goes into weight I assume. You can adapt some of his philosophy to your grow. I think you can't go wrong watching his classes

Overgrowtho · Mar 3, 2022

Derbud420 said:
Dr Bruce's method is for Mars , right? Substantial consideration goes into weight I assume. You can adapt some of his philosophy to your grow. I think you can't go wrong watching his classes

No not only or explicitly for Mars, but NASA helps to fund some of his work.

I used to think his system was pretty simple. Just use the formula for the media and the fertilizer. However now I see that the lime should be dosed according to the pH of the peat you are working with (mine is already 5.5-6 so I really shouldn't add lime. I think. Does that sound right? Bugbee used peat which was at pH 4 which is why he had to add lime to bring it to 5.5.)

Also the 20-10-20 is no longer the formula he uses. As we know from the above conversations, he is adding all kinds of things like epsom salt and various micro nutrients... hard to know exactly what and how much (anyone?) as it is still evolving too.

So if you saw his original video on Youtube then you must be as confused as me. One day however, Bugbee will start selling his own nutrient formula I've heard (great, another cannabis specific product...).

Now I am using 20-10-20 in veg and growth is a fine albeit maybe a bit slow. I have some 10-10-30 to use for flowering soon. Do I dare to run that in flowering with only that NPK and basically no other liquid micro nutrients added (maybe some epsom and kelp)? Or perhaps for now, it is better to stay using what I know works: a full mix of micro and macro nutrients as provided by typical cannabis nutrient companies specifically for cannabis. Still, while using his nice peat based mix.

Milky Weed · Mar 3, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
No not only or explicitly for Mars, but NASA helps to fund some of his work.

I used to think his system was pretty simple. Just use the formula for the media and the fertilizer. However now I see that the lime should be dosed according to the pH of the peat you are working with (mine is already 5.5-6 so I really shouldn't add lime. I think. Does that sound right? Bugbee used peat which was at pH 4 which is why he had to add lime to bring it to 5.5.)

Also the 20-10-20 is no longer the formula he uses. As we know from the above conversations, he is adding all kinds of things like epsom salt and various micro nutrients... hard to know exactly what and how much (anyone?) as it is still evolving too.

So if you saw his original video on Youtube then you must be as confused as me. One day however, Bugbee will start selling his own nutrient formula I've heard (great, another cannabis specific product...).

Now I am using 20-10-20 in veg and growth is a fine albeit maybe a bit slow. I have some 10-10-30 to use for flowering soon. Do I dare to run that in flowering with only that NPK and basically no other liquid micro nutrients added (maybe some epsom and kelp)? Or perhaps for now, it is better to stay using what I know works: a full mix of micro and macro nutrients as provided by typical cannabis nutrient companies specifically for cannabis. Still, while using his nice peat based mix.

Im using the 20-10-20 with jacks finisher 7-15-37. in veg im 80%-85% 20-10-20. 20% jacks finish. Week 4 flower im about 50/50 mixing the nutes. I also use pro mix bx which is pretty much pure peat alittle perlite with lime built in and wetting agent. It comes buffered to 6.3-6.4 i believe.

I found when i relied strictly on the bloom nutes the plants always ended up hungry for nitrogen.

rootforme · Mar 6, 2022

When growing in coco don't you want it to always stay moist and not dry out like soil? I'm trying to understand why not coco blends use perlite and no vermiculite when vermiculite will help keep the coco moist with less chance of dying out. You don't want pockets of coco dying out in the root zone.

Milky Weed · Mar 6, 2022

rootforme said:
When growing in coco don't you want it to always stay moist and not dry out like soil? I'm trying to understand why not coco blends use perlite and no vermiculite when vermiculite will help keep the coco moist with less chance of dying out. You don't want pockets of coco dying out in the root zone.

This thread is more about peat and bugbees tek than coco.

Vizzaro · Mar 7, 2022

rootforme said:
When growing in coco don't you want it to always stay moist and not dry out like soil? I'm trying to understand why not coco blends use perlite and no vermiculite when vermiculite will help keep the coco moist with less chance of dying out. You don't want pockets of coco dying out in the root zone.

Also I would assume just like Dr. Bugbee said "people have steered away from Vermiculite because it's expensive" and whenever I listen to or watch a person who grows in coco they never mentioned Vermiculite. I didn't even know Vermiculite was a thing till I heard Dr. Bugbee mention it. But that's just my theory.

Overgrowtho · Mar 7, 2022

I have these plants running on just the 20-10-20 without micro nutrients. (Although recently I've only added a bit of kelp and epsom).

It seems they have been slower to grow compared with other cannabis-specific nutrients I've tried.

I am not sure why some leaves have such holes in them? and I'm having tip burn? I did flush to avoid salts buildup but perhaps the formulation is too strong, I am running about 600 PPM on the tds meter.

I think this experiment wont last very much longer because the 20-10-20 seems to me, to have no advantage over cannabis-specific nutrients. Meanwhile now Bugbee is planning to release his own cannabis-specific line. So what was this all about not using mucro nutrients? Weird!

Sometimes people with a Phd really over complicated things? I'm a bit confused still...

Kassiopeija · Mar 7, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
without micro nutrients

it's simply not possible to grow any plant without micros - as these are essential. Are u really sure your substrate/formulae contains 0 (for real, and not just not nameing these)

Overgrowtho said:
I am not sure why some leaves have such holes in them? and I'm having tip burn? I did flush to avoid salts buildup but perhaps the formulation is too strong, I am running about 600 PPM on the tds meter.

discolored leaftip can also indicate a deficiency (mild Ca def eg) I don't think 600ppm is strong enough to warrant flushing. not at all.
salt buildup is countered by draining 20% of total irrigation and throwing it away

Doc50holliday · Mar 7, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
I have these plants running on just the 20-10-20 without micro nutrients. (Although recently I've only added a bit of kelp and epsom).

It seems they have been slower to grow compared with other cannabis-specific nutrients I've tried.

I am not sure why some leaves have such holes in them? and I'm having tip burn? I did flush to avoid salts buildup but perhaps the formulation is too strong, I am running about 600 PPM on the tds meter.

I think this experiment wont last very much longer because the 20-10-20 seems to me, to have no advantage over cannabis-specific nutrients. Meanwhile now Bugbee is planning to release his own cannabis-specific line. So what was this all about not using mucro nutrients? Weird!

Sometimes people with a Phd really over complicated things? I'm a bit confused still...

those plants look like they have some deficiencies. Are you using either the proposed peat moss & vermiculite media? With dolomite lime and gypsum added? Or his updated one? If not, then that would make sense why you’re having deficiencies. The dolomite lime & gypsum provide some micro nutrients and PH balance to the media.

Milky Weed · Mar 7, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
I have these plants running on just the 20-10-20 without micro nutrients. (Although recently I've only added a bit of kelp and epsom).

It seems they have been slower to grow compared with other cannabis-specific nutrients I've tried.

I am not sure why some leaves have such holes in them? and I'm having tip burn? I did flush to avoid salts buildup but perhaps the formulation is too strong, I am running about 600 PPM on the tds meter.

I think this experiment wont last very much longer because the 20-10-20 seems to me, to have no advantage over cannabis-specific nutrients. Meanwhile now Bugbee is planning to release his own cannabis-specific line. So what was this all about not using mucro nutrients? Weird!

Sometimes people with a Phd really over complicated things? I'm a bit confused still...

The 20-10-20 has micros in it, fertilizer levels are likely just not enough, or possibly its too heavy on nitrogen. I have to cut my 20-10-20 with about 20% jacks finisher in veg to help reduce it while keeping decent and balanced ratioes.

Thats what i do to counter the exess nitrogen. Now the 20-10-20 is missing calcium and light on magnesium, due to it being meant for hard water. I toss abit of powderised gypsum and epsom in my feed water to compensate for that.

I hope that helps, it took me awhile to balance my formula out and get the ratioes correct to where i can push the ferts abit and not get clawing. (1.5ec), 85f, 900umol, water feed ph 6.4, substrate ph 6 (Thats all mid flower numbers)

Overgrowtho · Mar 7, 2022

Kassiopeija said:
it's simply not possible to grow any plant without micros - as these are essential. Are u really sure your substrate/formulae contains 0 (for real, and not just not nameing these)

Doc50holliday said:
Or his updated one?

I am using the update formula so indeed I do have some micros in the media (sorry I was not clear on that).

Milky Weed said:
The 20-10-20 has micros in it,

I am not using Jacks but just a simple 20-10-20.

Overgrowtho said:
(Although recently I've only added a bit of kelp and epsom).

Vizzaro · Mar 8, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
I am using the update formula so indeed I do have some micros in the media (sorry I was not clear on that).

I am not using Jacks but just a simple 20-10-20.

The Fertilizer that Dr. Bugbee recommended was the 20-10-20 "Peat Lite Special". I made this same mistake by buying the Jack's 20-10-20 "General Purpose". The Peat Lite Special has double the micronutrients than the General Purpose.

Overgrowtho · Mar 8, 2022

Thanks, this answers a lot of questions @Vizzaro

Samwell Seed Well · Mar 8, 2022

20-10-20 just refers to actual % N-P-K.

its specific % of ingredients and their derivative sources will always listed.

The reason manufactuerers do this is it relates to a 100ppm base ratio per gallom, which makes additing and diluting its mix.for various reasons on a bag ratio useful.

Ive said this before... bag salts are manufactured to create tank mix's.
If you are pulling out a measured portion its not complete. only the entire bag in a stock solutiom makes a mix with exact PPM to amend feed solutions.

A lot of Jacks users effing themselves about 50% the way through their bag...

I luagh a lot at this...

Overgrowtho · Mar 8, 2022

Samwell Seed Well said:
Ive said this before... bag salts are manufactured to create tank mix's.
If you are pulling out a measured portion its not complete. only the entire bag in a stock solutiom makes a mix with exact PPM to amend feed solutions.
A lot of Jacks users effing themselves about 50% the way through their bag...

I made this same mistake before when using another solid fertilizer's bag. It was not good!!!! The salts are not homogenous, I learned the hard way.

Samwell Seed Well · Mar 9, 2022

Overgrowtho said:
I made this same mistake before when using another solid fertilizer's bag. It was not good!!!! The salts are not homogenous, I learned the hard way.

Im sure its negligable for most, but i dont see many people useing these big bag ferts the way manufactuerers intend as they pull a portion out at a time

Kassiopeija · Mar 9, 2022

Samwell Seed Well said:
Im sure its negligable for most, but i dont see many people useing these big bag ferts the way manufactuerers intend as they pull a portion out at a time

they are cheaper.
would grinding the total content to fine powder & mixing that real well help to do away the imbalances?

Dr. Bruce Bugbee method: NASA technique on Mars etc.

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